Windows 10 - Words of wisdom with BI

[MartyO]

I've only been using BI for 2 months and really like it and its app, but my experience is nadda with it when OS updates and all the things that go with it (drivers ect) occur, I was wondering if someone might comment. I use a I5 NUC (haswell) no problem Win8.1 64bit, looking to build second system with possibly HP elite Win7 (don't laugh at me too hard Fenderman) cause it so cheap and packs punch. So I feel good in that hardware is intel and possibly HP, but you never know.

Win10 I think comes in a month?? Any words of wisdom?

 

[fenderman]

I've only been using BI for 2 months and really like it and its app, but my experience is nadda with it when OS updates and all the things that go with it (drivers ect) occur, I was wondering if someone might comment. I use a I5 NUC (haswell) no problem Win8.1 64bit, looking to build second system with possibly HP elite Win7 (don't laugh at me too hard Fenderman) cause it so cheap and packs punch. So I feel good in that hardware is intel and possibly HP, but you never know.

Win10 I think comes in a month?? Any words of wisdom?

I almost fell out of my chair, Marty.....
Here is my take on windows 10...it may not be wisdom, but my take. It will be a great OS..however, dont be a beta tester for Microsoft, particularly with a NVR system. There will probably be very little benefit if any over say, windows 8, for an NVR system. Dont rush..
Wait a few months until the first batch of patches are dropped...then, do a clean install...I would never do an in place upgrade..

 

[bp2008]

I manage so many PCs now for myself and family that I am going to at least try in-place upgrades this time around. I'm looking at upgrading all 6 of my still-used Windows machines (Sheesh, a tablet, a laptop, two desktops, a NUC, and an almost-NUC). This in addition to 3 of my dad's PCs, one for his secretary, his file server, and my mom's PC. A dozen total there, most of them from 2012 or newer. There are another dozen or so that may stay on Windows 7 depending on how much trouble the first dozen is.

 

[nayr]

I pretty much agree with fenderman.. I support quite a few production windows servers, for some reason the military loves windows server for mission critical infrastructure.

from my experience I would either be running Windows Server 2008 or Win7 for a BI server until the day Microsoft stops providing updates, they seem to be the most reliable operating systems Microsoft has ever released.. Dont bother even looking at Windows 10 for Server use until they start talking about Windows 11 or whatever they call it.

Server 2012 is just starting to be deployed on mission critical infrastructure widely.. People who have to use windows for production services are never in any hurry to upgrade and loose all the hard-earned stability.

Now your desktops, do whatever you want.. I have next to no advice for operating Windows workstations.. its been more than 15 years since I have used one.

 

[LittleBrother]

I only got Windows 8 last year. Still hate it to be honest. Terrible user interface even with a third party product to bring back the start menu. I won't touch Windows 10 for at least 6 months unless it seems truly phenomenal. I'm sure IT will still be installing Windows 7 at work for a long time to come.

 

[bp2008]

Hah. You know, I've been seeing a pattern lately where big institutions with a lot of paid IT staff are more likely than anyone else to be running outdated software. Can't blame them really. It must suck when you have to support thousands of users who get lost every time they open a picture file and Windows uses the full screen pictures app instead of the old photo viewer.

 

[fenderman]

http://fortune.com/2015/06/24/navy-microsoft-windows-xp/

 

[nayr]

Your definition of outdated @bp2008 is my definition of mature, bleeding edge software rarely provides more benefits than problems.. Mature software hasn't had new features added in a long time, but since the last new feature tons of bugs have been addressed.

Its not outdated until they stop back-porting security and bug fixes.. then its past time to upgrade because you were warned.
@fenderman, if only I was allowed to tell the stories Ive gathered from working on military networks.... that article is nothing to be surprised about.

 

[bp2008]

I am from a web development background, where we really, really want people to be up-to-date with their browsers. But my company sells mostly to large institutions who have a tendency to be using Internet Explorer from 5 (give or take) years ago, all-too-often forwarding all their traffic through an improperly configured proxy server, and occasionally using some arcane compatibility mode that emulates an Internet Explorer version even older.

 

[LittleBrother]

IE5 is sure old but I know we still have people using IE 8. Truth is I support an app that only runs natively on IE 8 but runs fine on at least IE 11 as long as it's in compatibility view. I really have no motivation to update that app until I get wind that we're moving to a new standard and I confirm the app doesn't work on that new standard in CV.

I know we have some Access 97 stuff, too IT loves installing that on new builds.

 

[bp2008]

Yup, that is the problem with IE. You get a web application working with a specific version of IE and without effort it won't work properly in any other browser. This is much improved in later IE versions, due to better standards compliance and whatnot, so IE 8 is really the last version I really despise developing for. It also happens to be the latest version available on Windows XP, which makes me mad at Microsoft.

 

[LittleBrother]

Yup, that is the problem with IE. You get a web application working with a specific version of IE and without effort it won't work properly in any other browser. This is much improved in later IE versions, due to better standards compliance and whatnot, so IE 8 is really the last version I really despise developing for. It also happens to be the latest version available on Windows XP, which makes me mad at Microsoft.

The nice thing about it though is that it doesn't auto update like Chrome does. Case in point our Hikvisions, which are about two months away from being completely inaccessible in Chrome

 

[The_Penguin]

Hah. You know, I've been seeing a pattern lately where big institutions with a lot of paid IT staff are more likely than anyone else to be running outdated software. Can't blame them really. It must suck when you have to support thousands of users who get lost every time they open a picture file and Windows uses the full screen pictures app instead of the old photo viewer.

Yes, it does suck. Been doing it for over 20 years.

I was in our new (less than 2 years old) hospital on Sunday - Fell off a ladder and shattered my foot. Be careful mounting and wiring your cameras, kids, I get to not walk or drive for 6-8 weeks -

Anyway, the computer they used to show me the xrays and CT scan was running Windows XP. Sometimes you have to upgrade everything at once, and it ain't easy.

 

[The_Penguin]

Wait a few months until the first batch of patches are dropped...then, do a clean install...I would never do an in place upgrade..

Can't say I've disagreed with much of anything you've posted, Fenderman. But this,

Absolute truth. Never upgrade Windows. It's a pain. Backup everything. Export registry hives for all your software if you must. Hell, even screenshots of settings.
But don't upgrade. And always wait for patches, or even a service pack before going to a new version.

 

[fenderman]

Can't say I've disagreed with much of anything you've posted, Fenderman. But this,

Absolute truth. Never upgrade Windows. It's a pain. Backup everything. Export registry hives for all your software if you must. Hell, even screenshots of settings.
But don't upgrade. And always wait for patches, or even a service pack before going to a new version.

I don't see where we disagree...

Sent via Taptalk

 

[The_Penguin]

I don't see where we disagree...

Sent via Taptalk

Exactly.

 

[fenderman]

Exactly.

I misunderstood

 

[CountZero]

I'm new here, so I don't want to talk out of turn or stir anything up. But if BI is running fine on an 8 or an 8.1 machine, it should still run fine on 10. The base code and driver model is the same for 8/8.1 and 10. (And to a limited degree the driver model is the same for Win7 as well). I've been using Win 10 on one of my machines since early alpha, and while there were issues with stability with the early versions, the current builds are rock solid, and faster than 8 on identical hardware. I see a ton of folks talking about "waiting" for a new service pack for 10 before upgrading or not upgrading at all, and generally putting down a product that hasn't even been released yet. And I wonder how many of those folks have actually USED Win10. I know there is a resistance to new and different things, especially with software. However, Win 10 is not something to be afraid of.

Just an opinion from some that is using Win 10 already.

Dean.

 

[fenderman]

It basically boils down to the cost benefit...for someone running 7 or 8 there is no tangible difference on a machine dedicated for use as an NVR. The primary objective is stability...any new OS is going to have issues and growing pains and you dont want that one your NVR machine.

 

[The_Penguin]

I'm new here, so I don't want to talk out of turn or stir anything up. But if BI is running fine on an 8 or an 8.1 machine, it should still run fine on 10. The base code and driver model is the same for 8/8.1 and 10. (And to a limited degree the driver model is the same for Win7 as well). And I wonder how many of those folks have actually USED Win10. I know there is a resistance to new and different things, especially with software. However, Win 10 is not something to be afraid of.

Just an opinion from some that is using Win 10 already.

Dean.

Some good points. I agree everything *should* be ok, and for a system not running a lot of different programs, no big deal. My comments are based on years and years of corporate experience dating back to before Windows. We have some apps that plain will not run (vendor actually warned us) on win8.x, and some won't work on 10 for a few months, even though they're solid on 7. Not necessarily Window's fault, but something changed enough to be an issue.

If I had a computer running JUST BI, then yeah I'd have no issue upgrading to 10, but apps aside, I have seen stability issues with many major Windows releases.
XP was solid, but not at first release. NT4 wasn't stable until after a couple service packs. And Vista was a train-wreck until SP1.

So, yeah I'll still recommend waiting at least for the first round of patches for any computer that needs to be stable.