Wiring POE cameras throughout a forty acre forest to track brown bears...

[EMPIRETECANDY]

PTZ like this, but cost 20K USD, lol

TPC-PT8441C - Dahua International (dahuasecurity.com)

 

[Noober]

PTZ like this, but cost 20K USD, lol

TPC-PT8441C - Dahua International (dahuasecurity.com)

Thank you, I'll check that out!

Edit: I mean the one you linked to before that doesn't cost 20K...

 

[Noober]

PTZ like this, but cost 20K USD, lol

TPC-PT8441C - Dahua International (dahuasecurity.com)

Yeah, 20K is outside my budget for sure...

 

[Noober]

TPC-SD2241_datasheet_20230309.pdf (dahuasecurity.com)

Have this one, with Thermal: 7 mm; Visible: 8 mm , no zoom, just PT one. Price is bit higher than the fixed lens.

I don't see that camera for sale in the U.S, do you have a direct link by chance?

 

[mat200]

I'm also trying to get a quote for this Bosch camera, but I'm guessing it's not going to be cheap...

That's good to know, thanks. I may have to settle for a camera that has Starlight or some capability to see okay so long as it's not completely dark, without using IR. Although I have no idea if that would be more cost effective.

I found this Dahua although I don't know if it has 940nm or not, but it seems to do okay with just ambient low light. But ouch, it's $700...

Welcome @Noober

I highly recommend starting out with ONE good dahua oem or hikvision oem varifocal 4MP 1/1.8" camera and a small PoE switch ..

Dahua USA branded cameras I found to be beyond my budget, so getting a Dahua OEM from another brand / vendor was the way I went.

Many of us look for Andy ( EmpireTechAndy here ) as a good source for his selection of cameras.

You've got a nice fun project imho ... start with one camera first ..

 

[tangent]

What are the associated risks of 240V? I'd trench it down at least four feet. Is there a risk from the higher voltage you are thinking of, or do you mean the bigger shock from higher voltage if you put a shovel through the line?

The reason the solar shed is so far from the cabin is because the cabin is in the one location that has a view of a mountain range and glaciers (but doesn't see the sun in the winter) and the solar shed location is the one single spot on the entire property that sees the sun in the winter. So I wanted the panels in that spot, and I opted to run higher voltage from that shed to the various structures on the property because I didn't want to set up another whole system for every structure (panels, inverters, MPPTs, etc).

You're right, it's about a mile perimeter but I don't need to monitor all of it, but I'l try to monitor most of it. It's not all trees. I do want to cut a bit of a fire line on the perimeter anyway, so I may be able to kill two birds.

In the mountains / forest around me, trenching down that deep would be quite an undertaking. As far as the electric code, you probably only need to be down 2 feet, but the other consideration would be frost depth and ground movement (which can also affect fiber optic cables).

Running a higher voltage will help you with distance, but I doubt it's worth it to run it all the way to every camera location. To keep costs down, hopefully you can get away with 10-3 UF (underground feeder) cable. As far as safety, the biggest thing beyond burial depth would be to feed power from a GFCI breaker with the lowest amperage you can find (perhaps 10 Amps, or adjustable secondary protection with an even lower limit).
So long as you never try to power larger power tools from the lines, you could go a ways before voltage drop is too big of a problem. If you use equipment that tolerates a wide range of input voltages (many switching power supplies are happy with 90-240V).

I doubt it's worth it to run fiber everywhere, you'll want to carefully calculate your costs per foot and at each point where the fiber terminates. You can run buried Cat-6e about 900' with ePoE cameras. Point to Point (P2P) or Point to multi point (P2MP) wifi can also cover long distances.

I do think you should invest in a few PTZ cameras mounted to poles (start with one).

Here's a link to a Dahua ePoE switch that could power several cameras. It has a total power budget of 120W, meaning all the cameras you connect to it have to total less than that including the losses for long distance runs with ePoE.

transmission

www.dahuasecurity.com

Other than the cameras themselves, something like this, it's external power supply, and possible wifi equipment are all you'd need at remote locations. Temperature could be a bit of an issue as the extreme cold could negatively affect capacitors and moving parts including IR cut filters.

 

[garycrist]

If one stops and thinks, the wildlife that roam in the dark can see IR but, some like deer, see deep into blue!!!
Did you ever wonder why some animals like coyotes, rabbits and little things that make a tasty meal seem
to be invisible in IR?
No matter the color light you might use for illumination, KEEP IT AWAY FROM the camera!! Bugs,bats moths,
and rain drops are but a few of the things I think you might not be interested in seeing.

Good luck and welcome to your new passion.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

I don't see that camera for sale in the U.S, do you have a direct link by chance?

YES, Just check these 2 links for turret and Speed dome thermal.

EmpireTech TPC-SD2241 Thermal Network Hybrid Speed Dome Camera

Vanadium oxide uncooled focal plane detector. 4Megapixel progressive scan CMOS. AI functions: heat detection, tripwire, intrusion, human/vehicle classification, smoking detection, and call detection. Built-in white light and audio alarm. Pan: 0° to 360°, tilt: –15° to +90°. Dual image fusion...

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech IPC-TPC124X-AI 1/2.7'' CMOS 4MP Thermal Network Mini Hybrid (empiretech01.com)

 

[Noober]

YES, Just check these 2 links for turret and Speed dome thermal.

EmpireTech TPC-SD2241 Thermal Network Hybrid Speed Dome Camera

Vanadium oxide uncooled focal plane detector. 4Megapixel progressive scan CMOS. AI functions: heat detection, tripwire, intrusion, human/vehicle classification, smoking detection, and call detection. Built-in white light and audio alarm. Pan: 0° to 360°, tilt: –15° to +90°. Dual image fusion...

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech IPC-TPC124X-AI 1/2.7'' CMOS 4MP Thermal Network Mini Hybrid (empiretech01.com)

Thanks Andy, and thanks to everybody for all the great shared info, really helping me firm up our plans.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

aha, Share us some pics later when you set up the system, hope can catch some great videos of the bear.

 

[Noober]

I'm sure it won't take long, mom likes to stop by the cabin deck with her cubs every October. She destroyed the yurt we first lived in, so we built a fortified cabin. We live amongst real life monsters here.

 

[johnfitz]

Try not to take offense at this, but this kind of feels like something I would have dreamed up when I was 10 years old.

I am like a ten year old, except I now have a little better allowance, so if I can make this happen I will. Jury is still out on that.

awesome... just following... lions and tigers and BEARS oh my

 

[Noober]

I doubt it's worth it to run fiber everywhere, you'll want to carefully calculate your costs per foot and at each point where the fiber terminates. You can run buried Cat-6e about 900' with ePoE cameras.

Here's a link to a Dahua ePoE switch that could power several cameras. It has a total power budget of 120W, meaning all the cameras you connect to it have to total less than that including the losses for long distance runs with ePoE.

transmission

www.dahuasecurity.com

That's an interesting option with a 900' Cat6e distance. I'll check that out and if that means I could use one such cable and at the end of it use that ePoE switch to power multiple cameras at the termination point all sending their data back on that single line, then that might prove to be a great way to do it.

 

[mat200]

That's an interesting option with a 900' Cat6e distance. I'll check that out and if that means I could use one such cable and at the end of it use that ePoE switch to power multiple cameras at the termination point all sending their data back on that single line, then that might prove to be a great way to do it.

Remember ePoE is special so you will need a camera and switch / power sourcing equipment the works with ePoE ..

always remember to test before you run the cables ..

 

[tangent]

That's an interesting option with a 900' Cat6e distance. I'll check that out and if that means I could use one such cable and at the end of it use that ePoE switch to power multiple cameras at the termination point all sending their data back on that single line, then that might prove to be a great way to do it.

Nope, you can't put multiple cameras on the end of a line running Dahua's ePoE. Basically this is a variation of PoE that requires special equipment (specific models) on both ends and is more tolerant of voltage drop allowing longer runs than the standard 328'. There's a chart in the data sheet showing how both the data rate and power at the camera degrade with distance. Beyond 300m is going to be quite a bit less reliable, even 300m isn't guaranteed.

Do you have any experience installing / splicing fiber?

What you need to do is take an satellite image of your property, and try to make a drawing of where you want cameras and other equipment and the distances between various points and do some math regarding what this might cost.

My impression is that what you've described could cost you $30k+, if you truly intend to do it on the scale you've described. It's probably a bit more practical / useful to focus on the 2-4 acres closest to the house. Make a plan, refine it, and start small. Then refine the plan some more.

 

[yggdrasil]

If you are going PoE remember that Ethernet cables can't run more than 100 meters or around 328 feet, you should stay below 250 as a safe measure, unless you are running PoE extenders between them. This means you are better off running fiber for a long distance to a PoE switch that then distributes the signal and power by Ethernet to each camera in its proximity. That means stick to PoE switches and cameras. I would look into an external outdoors PoE switch as well and extenders which are not every expensive. Using PoE you don't need to deal with switching power, the camera signal and power all run on the same cable, which will make your installation and setup way easier.

If you are planning to have cameras in far away places, 10+ miles, then you probably want to transfer the signal wireless from one point of access to another and then route them through fiber or Ethernet since extending cable that far way would be cost prohibitive in terms of work, since you need to bury the cabling.