Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED / IPC-Color4K-T - 2.8mm Turret

@BadKarma - IIRC when Wildcat was testing at 30FPS it was jumping around and would be 31-32, then 28-29.

As someone said, change it from PAL to NTSC and you will get 30FPS.

But keep in mind the more features you use, the more the processor is getting taxed and it will impact the performance of the camera.

My car speedometer says 160MPH but it would be hardpressed to get there LOL.

Growing up if we were going up a steep hill we would have to hit the turbo button (turn off the AC LOL) if we wanted to do the speed limit in the little 4 cylinder LOL.

Having a GPU with two different RAM amounts would be materially different. I don't think Andy has pulled a similar ruse, and certainly not intentionally.

Heck, buying any camera and there are probably different chipsets in the same model based on production runs, especially with the chip shortage.

We have seen that with the 5241-Z12E. The manufacturer goes to the market with the specs for a chipset and if a vendor says they can meet it then it is used.

When it is materially different and a vendor has to supply something that is different than the previous specifications, then we see Dahua use S1 and S2, etc. after the model name indicating that it is a chipset with a materially different chipset spec than the previous version.

As I said, from my testing of personally owning both cameras, if someone asked me what the difference was, it would be what Andy told you. One has a speaker and one doesn't.

I mean if we want to get more detailed:
  • The bullet has 4 white LED to the 2 white LED for the turret.
  • The turret is smaller.
  • The GUI for the bullet is the older GUI that most are familiar with.
  • The bullet has a speaker.
  • The GUI for the turret allows for much more customization than the bullet. I can only set up a General, Day, and Night profile in the bullet, but I have like 12 options in the turret. I can set the LED to come on at 10% at 8pm, ramp it to 100% at midnight, and bring it back down to 10% at 5am if I want to as an example.
  • The turret allows you to set a schedule for different profiles based on each month whereas in the bullet I would have to go in several times a year to adjust it based on time changes and changing sunrise/sunsets.
And I am sure probably some others that I am forgetting.
 
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looney2ns said:
Update on the issue's with my 4K-T and the Web5.0 interface.
I'm currently testing another new camera that also uses' the Web5.0 interface, and I'm seeing almost the exact same issue's with this cam as I do the 4k-t.
Can't get the profile schedule to work, at all, just like the 4K-t.
Won't set DST correctly, just like the 4k-t.
Setting IVS will sometimes wipe out exposure and condition settings.
Sd card is not properly recognized in this cam.
I've only used IE and Firefox with this new cam, and still the same issue's I've seen with Edge on the 4k-t.
Also, on this new cam, the interface is very sluggish, will lockup IE if like monitoring the live view for more than say 15 minutes.
Uses a huge amount of resources while that cam is open in IE.
Firmware has not been updated by me.
No doubt there are many bugs lurking in the Web5.0 interface that need to be ironed out.

@Wildcat_1 @sebastiantombs @wittaj
Click to expand...
This was effective for me. I'm not sure whether this will work for you, but it's worth a shot. If you're running Windows 11 FireFox, try Windows 10 IE, which worked for me.
 
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wittaj said:
@BadKarma - IIRC when Wildcat was testing at 30FPS it was jumping around and would be 31-32, then 28-29.

As someone said, change it from PAL to NTSC and you will get 30FPS.

But keep in mind the more features you use, the more the processor is getting taxed and it will impact the performance of the camera.

My car speedometer says 160MPH but it would be hardpressed to get there LOL.

Growing up if we were going up a steep hill we would have to hit the turbo button (turn off the AC LOL) if we wanted to do the speed limit in the little 4 cylinder LOL.

Having a GPU with two different RAM amounts would be materially different. I don't think Andy has pulled a similar ruse, and certainly not intentionally.

Heck, buying any camera and there are probably different chipsets in the same model based on production runs, especially with the chip shortage.

We have seen that with the 5241-Z12E. The manufacturer goes to the market with the specs for a chipset and if a vendor says they can meet it then it is used.

When it is materially different and a vendor has to supply something that is different than the previous specifications, then we see Dahua use S1 and S2, etc. after the model name indicating that it is a chipset with a materially different chipset spec than the previous version.

As I said, from my testing of personally owning both cameras, if someone asked me what the difference was, it would be what Andy told you. One has a speaker and one doesn't.

I mean if we want to get more detailed:
  • The bullet has 4 white LED to the 2 white LED for the turret.
  • The turret is smaller.
  • The GUI for the bullet is the older GUI that most are familiar with.
  • The bullet has a speaker.
  • The GUI for the turret allows for much more customization than the bullet. I can only set up a General, Day, and Night profile in the bullet, but I have like 12 options in the turret. I can set the LED to come on at 10% at 8pm, ramp it to 100% at midnight, and bring it back down to 10% at 5am if I want to as an example.
  • The turret allows you to set a schedule for different profiles based on each month whereas in the bullet I would have to go in several times a year to adjust it based on time changes and changing sunrise/sunsets.
And I am sure probably some others that I am forgetting.
Click to expand...

Yes as @wittaj mentioned, when I was testing the original pre-prod unit I saw through analytics missed frames which was an issue I reported back and I'm glad to say has now been fixed. For differences between 4K-T & 4K-X take a look at the original product intro video I posted (again below for reference) at time stamp 2:00 that covers most. Chipset wise, Volt is used for 4K-X and Taurus for 4K-T
Performance is critical and as I mentioned before, I'm glad to be able to state that the changes we made to algorithms + underlying code, combined with getting in all the bug fixers, while skating close to the edge of what's possible from this SOC and memory pairing, this camera (4K-T) does incredibly well. As I stated to Dahua engineering and Andy, I wouldn't want to tax the resources any further than I was able to push this one but it does perform very well.



HTH and always remember to dial in your camera for your FOV
 
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wittaj said:
@BadKarma - IIRC when Wildcat was testing at 30FPS it was jumping around and would be 31-32, then 28-29.

As someone said, change it from PAL to NTSC and you will get 30FPS.

But keep in mind the more features you use, the more the processor is getting taxed and it will impact the performance of the camera.

My car speedometer says 160MPH but it would be hardpressed to get there LOL.

Growing up if we were going up a steep hill we would have to hit the turbo button (turn off the AC LOL) if we wanted to do the speed limit in the little 4 cylinder LOL.

Having a GPU with two different RAM amounts would be materially different. I don't think Andy has pulled a similar ruse, and certainly not intentionally.

Heck, buying any camera and there are probably different chipsets in the same model based on production runs, especially with the chip shortage.

We have seen that with the 5241-Z12E. The manufacturer goes to the market with the specs for a chipset and if a vendor says they can meet it then it is used.

When it is materially different and a vendor has to supply something that is different than the previous specifications, then we see Dahua use S1 and S2, etc. after the model name indicating that it is a chipset with a materially different chipset spec than the previous version.

As I said, from my testing of personally owning both cameras, if someone asked me what the difference was, it would be what Andy told you. One has a speaker and one doesn't.

I mean if we want to get more detailed:
  • The bullet has 4 white LED to the 2 white LED for the turret.
  • The turret is smaller.
  • The GUI for the bullet is the older GUI that most are familiar with.
  • The bullet has a speaker.
  • The GUI for the turret allows for much more customization than the bullet. I can only set up a General, Day, and Night profile in the bullet, but I have like 12 options in the turret. I can set the LED to come on at 10% at 8pm, ramp it to 100% at midnight, and bring it back down to 10% at 5am if I want to as an example.
  • The turret allows you to set a schedule for different profiles based on each month whereas in the bullet I would have to go in several times a year to adjust it based on time changes and changing sunrise/sunsets.
And I am sure probably some others that I am forgetting.
Click to expand...
Thanks wittaj, I adjusted it to pal and can now see 30 frames per second. I'm only using ivs with one rule, so I'm hoping it can handle that LOL.

I'm one of those folks that will go to the Autobahn on the why to the Nurburgring once a year and try to get it to 160.

I still turn off the air conditioning now lol every hp helps LOL

I did message Andy on AliExpress and asked him what the differences between the 2 cameras were were as the bullet cam was slightly more and I wanted to know this before making the purchase, Andy said the only differance was the turret does not have a speaker now wether this was an intentional or not just to move the 4k-t I don't know as I don't know Andy so can't say but it deffinatly feels like ive been mislead here. Being misled by someone is not a pleasant experience. There are different cameras using different chips and lenses, was all he had to say.

dauha add s1 and s2 in the right way. Andy should have adjusted his cameras like this.

I'm not sure whether to keep this camera and hope that it improves over time or just return it and buy the 4k-x directly from Dahua; at the very least, that's why if I ask a question, I hope to get an honest answer.

Do you know if the 4k-x will also be updated in the future to include new GUI features?
 
BadKarma said:
Thanks wittaj, I adjusted it to pal and can now see 30 frames per second. I'm only using ivs with one rule, so I'm hoping it can handle that LOL.

I'm one of those folks that will go to the Autobahn on the why to the Nurburgring once a year and try to get it to 160.

I still turn off the air conditioning now lol every hp helps LOL

I did message Andy on AliExpress and asked him what the differences between the 2 cameras were were as the bullet cam was slightly more and I wanted to know this before making the purchase, Andy said the only differance was the turret does not have a speaker now wether this was an intentional or not just to move the 4k-t I don't know as I don't know Andy so can't say but it deffinatly feels like ive been mislead here. Being misled by someone is not a pleasant experience. There are different cameras using different chips and lenses, was all he had to say.

dauha add s1 and s2 in the right way. Andy should have adjusted his cameras like this.

I'm not sure whether to keep this camera and hope that it improves over time or just return it and buy the 4k-x directly from Dahua; at the very least, that's why if I ask a question, I hope to get an honest answer.

Do you know if the 4k-x will also be updated in the future to include new GUI features?
Click to expand...

No, only the newer cameras and chipsets will gain the 5.0 Web GUI except those older ranges (such as 7xxx, Ultra etc) that already supported it. Also, PAL would be expected to get 25fps and NTSC 30fps per standards

HTH
 
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@BadKarma it might be different over there, but in the USA we cannot purchase from Dahua directly, only authorized professional installers, usually at a crazy increase in price. In fact Dahua won't even take our calls lol.
 
wittaj said:
@BadKarma it might be different over there, but in the USA we cannot purchase from Dahua directly, only authorized professional installers, usually at a crazy increase in price. In fact Dahua won't even take our calls lol.
Click to expand...
I forgot that you have to go through a licenced dealer here as well. but there prices are pretty good here they have the HFW7842-Z for £230 and are doing a special buy 2 get a 3rd free on some 4k cameras but currently they dont have the 4k-t model.
 
Wildcat_1 said:
Yes as @wittaj mentioned, when I was testing the original pre-prod unit I saw through analytics missed frames which was an issue I reported back and I'm glad to say has now been fixed. For differences between 4K-T & 4K-X take a look at the original product intro video I posted (again below for reference) at time stamp 2:00 that covers most. Chipset wise, Volt is used for 4K-X and Taurus for 4K-T
Performance is critical and as I mentioned before, I'm glad to be able to state that the changes we made to algorithms + underlying code, combined with getting in all the bug fixers, while skating close to the edge of what's possible from this SOC and memory pairing, this camera (4K-T) does incredibly well. As I stated to Dahua engineering and Andy, I wouldn't want to tax the resources any further than I was able to push this one but it does perform very well.



HTH and always remember to dial in your camera for your FOV
Click to expand...

I just finished watching it; it had a great introduction, and I'm looking forward to watching the review.

Does the performance of the Volt and Taurus chips differ significantly?

I noticed that the 5849T1 has a bitrate that is more than twice as high as the 5849H. Is this due to the different chips being used?

The dori is also different. I had assumed they would be the same?
 
BadKarma said:
I just finished watching it; it had a great introduction, and I'm looking forward to watching the review.

Does the performance of the Volt and Taurus chips differ significantly?

I noticed that the 5849T1 has a bitrate that is more than twice as high as the 5849H. Is this due to the different chips being used?

The dori is also different. I had assumed they would be the same?
Click to expand...
4K-X (VOLT) & 4K-T (TAURUS) are different SOC's + different lenses hence the difference there. In terms of bitrate, the new FW I mentioned I worked with Dahua engineering on allows the 4K-T now up to 16,484K so more inline with the 4K-X. Even the 4K-X FW had to be bumped (1 of the changes I filed on that one) to get up to the 20K it now offers. In terms of differences between the chipsets, the Taurus should have less overall resource bandwidth to utilize over the VOLT (in the 4K-Ts specifically), BUT as I mentioned, with the changes we made to the latest FW for 4K-T (TAURUS) the camera performs incredibly well, especially since its utilizing a heavier web GUI as well. Don't think you'll be disappointed with either cam. Having used both 4K-X and 4K-T in all focal lengths, the cams really are remarkable and TBH the 4K-T for its footprint, is very capable

HTH
 
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Wildcat_1 said:
4K-X (VOLT) & 4K-T (TAURUS) are different SOC's + different lenses hence the difference there. In terms of bitrate, the new FW I mentioned I worked with Dahua engineering on allows the 4K-T now up to 16,484K so more inline with the 4K-X. Even the 4K-X FW had to be bumped (1 of the changes I filed on that one) to get up to the 20K it now offers. In terms of differences between the chipsets, the Taurus should have less overall resource bandwidth to utilize over the VOLT (in the 4K-Ts specifically), BUT as I mentioned, with the changes we made to the latest FW for 4K-T (TAURUS) the camera performs incredibly well, especially since its utilizing a heavier web GUI as well. Don't think you'll be disappointed with either cam. Having used both 4K-X and 4K-T in all focal lengths, the cams really are remarkable and TBH the 4K-T for its footprint, is very capable

HTH
Click to expand...
are they ever going to make a Varifocal version of the Turret, or many a 6mm?
 
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Getting a 6mm lens into the housing will be a problem, I think. I know getting a varifocal lens in the same size housing will be impossible and probably need an even bigger housing. The 1/1.2 sensor is a limiting factor when it comes to lens sizes. I still want both a 6mm and a varifocal though, size isn't that critical to me.
 
sebastiantombs said:
Getting a 6mm lens into the housing will be a problem, I think. I know getting a varifocal lens in the same size housing will be impossible and probably need an even bigger housing. The 1/1.2 sensor is a limiting factor when it comes to lens sizes.
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yea, was just hoping, but knew it prob wasnt gonna happen
 
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flynreelow said:
are they ever going to make a Varifocal version of the Turret, or many a 6mm?
Click to expand...

I think 6mm may come next year as it is being explored as a possibility. Varifocal will be a while out and would come to bullet cams first.

Now, in answer to would it come to this series, that’s up for debate. The size of the 4K turrets is larger than others in this form factor which is a good thing and necessary due to HW specs of optics etc needing that. With that said, the challenge would be fitting varifocal lens and associated motor in the same housing size OR IF they needed to go bigger what would that look like. Therefore in summary, my expectation would be 6mm could come in about a year if testing succeeds, varifocal would be bullet cam variants first, varifocal turret if possible after that.

The above also has to take into account finding the right optics and SOC combo AND critically delivering expected performance at the right price of course.

HTH
 
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BadKarma said:
I watched Wildcats review and the 4k-x has a picture in my opinion, andy should have been honest and straightforward with me and simply told me what the differences between the two cameras were, rather than saying it's just missing a speaker, which I believe is misleading and would have influenced my purchase decision.

I agree that the camera is good, but is it as good as the 4k-x? It doesn't support 30 frames per second, which is very disappointing, and the features are, in my opinion, limited because you can only use one of them at a time; additionally, face detection on my model doesn't seem to work at all. It would be great if face detection and object detection could be used simultaneously.
Click to expand...

You don't need 30fps. Most people run cameras at 15fps. The difference between 30 and 15 fps is un-noticeable to most in picture quality but will make a huge difference to storage. You're doubling your storage for no gain.

Look here, 30 and 15fps indistinguishable:



As for the picture differences they are slight. The 4Kt is good, just not quite as good side by side with the 4Kx in my opinion. The 4Kt is the turret equivqlent of the 4Kx. I just understand it doesn't use the same components, the most quoted reason being they won't fit in the case. I'm unable to verify whether thats correct. Obviously that's down to Dahua's choices. Andy can only offer what Dahua produce. Unless positioned side by side with each other, most people wouldn't notice the difference in the picture, it's so slight.

The big disadvantage to the X is bullet format cameras invite people to turn them around and point them away from what they're looking at whilst Turrets (T) resist this. It's horses for courses. There's a slight difference in sharpness vs the ability for the camera to be easily removed from the game. Unless it's a high up over view camera or one being concealed as hidden in eg a mailbox, I wouldn't recommend a bullet. A simple twist of the camera and you capture nothing. Turrets on the other hand don't suffer this issue either in inviting the attack or being as easy to turn. I'm slightly disappointed in the T because I'm a perfectionist and love the X. However, Andy can only offer what is available and there are considerable disadvantages in my opinion to the X format with the differences being so slight, what he told you was correct in my opinion. To all intents and purposes, the X and T are the same camera. The difference in components is simply because you can't fit a quart in a pint pot. I've no doubt in the future tech will evolve and there will be a smaller 8mp camera but for now, that's what we're stuck with and the penalty for putting it into a smaller vessel is it needs some modification to fit. The penalty for choosing the X is the additional physical vulnerability for virtually no difference in picture quality.
 
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Thanks for all the info in this thread. Does anyone know if the LEDs on the camera can be controlled via API? Rather than setting the LED brightness based on day/night mode, I'd like to just be able to control the brightness with an API call.
 
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