Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera

[JesseSR]

Just wanted to mention for others interested in this camera model but are sitting on the fence about getting more... I have 11 of these in place now (running Sep 2021 firmware) that replaced other Dahua cameras, and find these 4K-X models to be amazing, especially at night time. They sure don't require a lot of light to have an outstanding night time picture, even with a fast shutter speed. @wittaj for all his input and help with the cameras too. IVS has also been very reliable so far too. Might still pick up another 2 or 3 of these eventually, but so far, big thumbs up.

There are some bugs however with the latest firmware, still.... The picture settings relating to shutter speed, etc. get all screwed up and defaulted occasionally, though I think it happens if you set shutter -before- creating your IVS rules. Still haven't figured out the exact order of things that causes the bug but, it's something to be aware of that isn't fixed in the code, yet.

 

[Wildcat_1]

EMPIRETECANDY can this feature please be considered for inclusion in a future firmware? Thank you.
[/QUOTE]

Not currently available BUT further control of over the 'Alarm' functions in relation to LED's and audio is something I submitted for consideration by Dahua as part of my feedback. I did recommend this only be implemented if it could be done so in a more granular fashion due to a) one size not fitting all deployments b) implementation would need to be on point to ensure that you don't ruin the overall cap, c) most not wanting to utilize these functions as other cams exist in the portfolio to do so (more below). In other words as I mentioned before, you have to be very careful about impact to target acquisition and image when going from a balanced FOV to flashing lights and running the risk of over exposure at a critical moment. If you need the functionality now then there are of course the TIOC cams that are more geared towards the overall visual deterrence features too.

HTH

 

[wittaj]

The problem with the light flashing is this camera still needs light, and if that is the only light source, it will really screw up the image with the light going off and on in certain applications.

If you want a camera with a flashing/blinking light, then look at the active deterrence series cam - I have 3 of them and they are great for that feature. Just stay away from the 8MP version as it is riddled with issues (do a search here for the many threads started on the 8MP version).

Yes, I have noticed the "bug" in recent cams where you have to draw an IVS line first. if you go to all the trouble of setting up shutter, gain, etc., it goes wacky when you then go in and draw an IVS rule later. YMMV.

 

[Wildcat_1]

Just wanted to mention for others interested in this camera model but are sitting on the fence about getting more... I have 11 of these in place now (running Sep 2021 firmware) that replaced other Dahua cameras, and find these 4K-X models to be amazing, especially at night time. They sure don't require a lot of light to have an outstanding night time picture, even with a fast shutter speed. @wittaj for all his input and help with the cameras too. IVS has also been very reliable so far too. Might still pick up another 2 or 3 of these eventually, but so far, big thumbs up.

There are some bugs however with the latest firmware, still.... The picture settings relating to shutter speed, etc. get all screwed up and defaulted occasionally, though I think it happens if you set shutter -before- creating your IVS rules. Still haven't figured out the exact order of things that causes the bug but, it's something to be aware of that isn't fixed in the code, yet.

Glad you like them @JesseSR. As I mentioned in my review, these really are great cams and definitely worth supplementing a current deployment with a few of them. The key though is to remember special application needs (LPR, Face Recognition etc) should also be taken into account so you end up with a rounded deployment not focused on just 1 model for ultimate success. Personally my pick is still the 2.8 over the 3.6 for overall PQ currently but looking forward to the Dahua 2022 catalog and what additions / revisions that will bring too.

Enjoy and as always if you or others need help dialing in or with any questions just reach out.

 

[tapatio]

The problem with the light flashing is this camera still needs light, and if that is the only light source, it will really screw up the image with the light going off and on in certain applications.

If you want a camera with a flashing/blinking light, then look at the active deterrence series cam - I have 3 of them and they are great for that feature. Just stay away from the 8MP version as it is riddled with issues (do a search here for the many threads started on the 8MP version).

Yes, I have noticed the "bug" in recent cams where you have to draw an IVS line first. if you go to all the trouble of setting up shutter, gain, etc., it goes wacky when you then go in and draw an IVS rule later. YMMV.

The active deterrence cams have nowhere near the performance of this cam. No camera does, really. Thus it'd be beneficial to get some deterrence capability out of this camera until the market has more appropriate offerings.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah no doubt that the active deterrence cams is nowhere near the performance of this cam, but the 4K/X does provide audio deterrence and that will be much better than any flashing light. With the white LED on on my active deterrence camera, you only see the red/blue flashing if you are looking up at it. And that is what would happen with the 4K/X as well.

 

[NightLife]

Has anyone written a script which would allow a random 'voice command' to be cycled when the camera is triggered? Each triggering in close time proximity would elicit a different command, so it's not always the same thing. Something which comes across as being somewhat organic, and not like a robot.


Problem is, and it applies to any visual and especially an audio deterrent that unless you live in a pretty rural area your neighbours are going to want to lynch you if it raises a ruckass at 3AM and it's only a raccoon, or coyotes etc. Then there's the pizza guy, the door to door sales, meter reader, neighbour looking for her dog and on and on.


This is likely beyond the 4K-X discussion though...

With the 4K-X in mind though, I wouldn't ever want to mess with the image qualities it has, so I would likely try and tie one of the alarm outputs into a relay that powers something else..pepper spray cannon?

 

[wittaj]

The speakers aren't that loud lol. I cannot hear it inside just on the other side of the wall.

 

[Wildcat_1]

Stay tuned for my next review. Going to put the 5842 S2 Bullet Cam version (previously took the turret for a test spin HERE) and compare against the Color4K for overall PQ as well as put them up against an old favorite 4K to show where they've come from

 

[vidman]

Is there a turret version of this camera available?

 

[wittaj]

Is there a turret version of this camera available?

There is not a turret version of this camera available.

 

[Mike A.]

Just got mine the other day and still setting up....

Is there something happening internally beyond the exposure and image settings when running the with the illuminators on? Seems the image isn't nearly as good when I turn that on vs leaving it off and providing light from an external source. Even less light with a generally equivalent pattern. A much better overall image at the same exposure/image settings. Not much experience with color at night but I have noticed the same kind of thing with one of my 5442T-ZEs on IR. Better image relying on that from other cams. It's as if there's some change the cam makes on its own based on whether the illuminators are on even running manual with gain and NR set to specific values. It's just more noticeable with the color.

 

[Wildcat_1]

Just got mine the other day and still setting up....

Is there something happening internally beyond the exposure and image settings when running the with the illuminators on? Seems the image isn't nearly as good when I turn that on vs leaving it off and providing light from an external source. Even less light with a generally equivalent pattern. A much better overall image at the same exposure/image settings. Not much experience with color at night but I have noticed the same kind of thing with one of my 5442T-ZEs on IR. Better image relying on that from other cams. It's as if there's some change the cam makes on its own based on whether the illuminators are on even running manual with gain and NR set to specific values. It's just more noticeable with the color.

This cam definitely needs dialing in more for your environment. There’s not necessarily a 1 size fits all on this cam (due to the way it looks for and processes even a little light on scene and the back end algorithms for AGC and other areas I mentioned). If you want some assistance dialing in then just DM me and we can look for some time where I can remotely assist.

Either way although you can use the onboard illuminators, as I showed in my review this cam benefits more from off cam light regardless of how little. I highly recommend the use of off cam vs on cam light here.

You’ll notice that the cam also shifts WB more to compensate for the onboard illuminators (expected due to warm white shift) and that too will affect the ending result and can impact PQ based on environment, color on scene and AGC function.

To expand further you’ll find that generally (again depending on your environment) the cam will want to shift blue (primarily) or red and you can compensate for that of course in the settings and very easily if your night environment is constant in terms of light available and your use of illuminators or not. When it pushes hard in one way, say blue and AGC kicks in you’ll potentially notice more grain and a slight degradation in quality caused by noise (again see my comments RE:AGC).

Lastly, also make sure you are using good FW since as i mentioned, not all have been great. Currently using 2021-09-08 which works well (still room for improvement though as I mentioned before).

Therefore in summary, good FW coupled with utilizing primarily off cam light + balancing WB for scene should = more success and a more pleasing image for you. See if that helps. Either way, offer stands if you would like some further help in dialing in.


HTH

 

[Mike A.]

Either way although you can use the onboard illuminators, as I showed in my review this cam benefits more from off cam light regardless of how little. I highly recommend the use of off cam vs on cam light here...

Thanks, appreciate the offer. I'm still in the discovery phase at this point and want to play around with things so I have a better understanding of what does what. I'll drop you a note if I can't get things set up well.

I guess that's really my question. Why? It must be something more than just the amount/color of light itself since as you say and showed, even a small amount of off-cam light makes a huge difference and looks much better than with the illuminators. If I adjust the onboard illuminators down to about the same level, still not the same (even adjusting WB for the warm color). And when running both you can see things change quite a bit with the illuminators on even when overall lighting is about the same. As I said, it's as if some other settings within the cam change when it detects that those are on.

Not that big of a deal. I can give it light another way. Was hoping to run with just the illuminators without lighting up the whole yard but I do have other light. Really is impressive how little light these cams need. I was kind of concerned that the illuminators wouldn't be bright enough to light things up well here since it's near coal mine dark. Naaaaa... Have to dial them back. lol

Yes, I've seen that WB is all over the place depending on lighting/settings. But that's relatively easy to correct for. Especially if kept to more natural look. As you said when it gets pushed one way or another you can see the noise come in more.

Lastly, also make sure you are using good FW since as i mentioned, not all have been great. Currently using 2021-09-08 which works well (still room for improvement though as I mentioned before).

Yes, same version.

I'll keep playing with it. Really only had one night so far to do much.

 

[Wildcat_1]

Thanks, appreciate the offer. I'm still in the discovery phase at this point and want to play around with things so I have a better understanding of what does what. I'll drop you a note if I can't get things set up well.

I guess that's really my question. Why? It must be something more than just the amount/color of light itself since as you say and showed, even a small amount of off-cam light makes a huge difference and looks much better than with the illuminators. If I adjust the onboard illuminators down to about the same level, still not the same (even adjusting WB for the warm color). And when running both you can see things change quite a bit with the illuminators on even when overall lighting is about the same. As I said, it's as if some other settings within the cam change when it detects that those are on.

Not that big of a deal. I can give it light another way. Was hoping to run with just the illuminators without lighting up the whole yard but I do have other light. Really is impressive how little light these cams need. I was kind of concerned that the illuminators wouldn't be bright enough to light things up well here since it's near coal mine dark. Naaaaa... Have to dial them back. lol

Yes, I've seen that WB is all over the place depending on lighting/settings. But that's relatively easy to correct for. Especially if kept to more natural look. As you said when it gets pushed one way or another you can see the noise come in more.



Yes, same version.

I'll keep playing with it. Really only had one night so far to do much.

Yes as i mentioned the underlying code makes a lot of adjustments a number of which still need work by Dahua as I reported back BUT current version isn’t bad and will allow you to get a great image once completely dialed. Enjoy @Mike A. These along with the Dual Fusion are a glimpse of the future Again, let me know anytime if you need anything once you dial in a little more.

 

[Alaska Country]

This is an example of the HFW-5894 at night without using the camera's built in white LED illumination. The ambient light in the image is from two sources. One the corner street light (4000K) and two garage carriage lights at 5000K (60 watt LED bulbs dimmed to 45%) on the garage far left and right.



The image is reduced in size, in PhotoShop, with no other corrections as the original is 5 megs in size. The shutter on the 5894 is set at "Customized Range" 2 ms or 1/500 second which works well in producing clear images of moving vehicles crossing the driveway at night.

The goal is to have, as natural as possible, roadway lighting for vehicle color ID. If selecting auto WB, the camera keys on the 5000K lamps with the road becoming overly yellow.

The solution is to use "Regional Custom" to select an area that is illuminated by the 4000K street lamp. That location is a small area across the road. That location will have to be changed when the seasons change.



Manual WB could also be used and was tried. However, once set, the WB is fixed regardless of change in ambient color temperature during shifts of outside lighting. i.e. overly blue during switch from night to sunup.

The camera is switched from "Full Time Day" mode to "Full Time Night" mode using an HTTP URL. Switching from day to night does not use the built in "Schedule" as this setting would require daily updates due to seasonal changes in sunset and sunrise times. (i.e. 40 minutes per week)

 

[Mike A.]

After playing with it more, I think that the main issue with the internal illuminators is that the cam compensates too much for the brightness of the "hotspot" to the detriment of everything outside of that. So rather than getting a nice even lighting and good resolution across the scene with external lighting (as in the pics above) even at low levels you get a too hot center and lose most all of the other detail outside in blackness and noise. At least that's what I see in a very dark setting with basically no other light. Maybe if you had more lighted areas in the scene otherwise it might work better. More wide/diffused LEDs probably would help too.

But give it a just a little ambient light and it looks great.

 

[Wildcat_1]

After playing with it more, I think that the main issue with the internal illuminators is that the cam compensates too much for the brightness of the "hotspot" to the detriment of everything outside of that. So rather than getting a nice even lighting and good resolution across the scene with external lighting (as in the pics above) even at low levels you get a too hot center and lose most all of the other detail outside in blackness and noise. At least that's what I see in a very dark setting with basically no other light. Maybe if you had more lighted areas in the scene otherwise it might work better. More wide/diffused LEDs probably would help too.

But give it a just a little external light and it looks great.

The other thing you can do to help compensate is adjust exposure comp so that it compensates less for brightness / light. Again if using in an environment with similar lighting night after night, this can help too.

 

[Mike A.]

Yeah, I tried that some. Exposure compensation doesn't seem to do much of anything with mine. I really can't tell much difference between 0 and 100 where I very much would with other cams. I intended to ask about that at some point.

 

[Wildcat_1]

Yeah, I tried that some. Exposure compensation doesn't seem to do much of anything with mine. I really can't tell much difference between 0 and 100 where I very much would with other cams. I intended to ask about that at some point.

You should see some benefit BUT will see more against off cam light than on. Can also lower gain too. See if setting exposure comp to low (around 20) and reducing gain to around 35-40 helps in your situation at all. Again a little tough to suggest without being on your system and seeing the FOV directly while dialing in but you should see some difference.