YES, it's overkill... can I tell the SD6AL830V PTZ to follow people?

TrumanHW

n3wb
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
27
Reaction score
3
I know, I know - and I don't CARE. I love gadgets, and I can afford it by selling equipment I have!

Would everyone agree that the:

SD6AL830V-HNI
SD6AL830V-HNI | Dahua Technology - Dahua Technology

is superior in most if not ALL ways to...?

UNV IPC6248SR-X22 4K Ultra-HD IR PTZ
IPC6248SR-X22—Zhejiang Uniview Technologies Co., Ltd.

And... can I use the SD6AL830V-HNI to track people for say, 20 seconds or until they have recognized their face -- in a given region?

Does anyone know how LOUD the SD6AL830V-HNI is?
Can I program it to zoom on the person if they stay still?
 

EMPIRETECANDY

IPCT Vendor
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
8,304
Reaction score
23,884
Location
HONGKONG
4K One always good if your area has good light in the night, or else the pic not good at all. If you just want to watch guys in the daytime, should be a good choice for the 8MP PTZ
 

marku2

Known around here
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
Messages
919
Reaction score
263
Location
Australia
It seems natural then to assume that what happens in the film world is similar to what happens (most of the time) in the real world. We might think that our faces are constantly being tracked and recognized as we walk past security cameras in city centers – but this is not actually the case.

Not only would such a system require millions of cameras capable of producing high-quality footage, but it would also require the integration of photo-ID databases such as mugshots from every police force, previous passport images, and driving license images for everyone in the country.

And yet even if this high level of integration was possible, a far more basic problem still exists – facial recognition systems are still not 100% accurate. but jason bourne got his to work ;)
 

TrumanHW

n3wb
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
27
Reaction score
3
I don't need it to recognize faces of people I don't know - but of people I categorize in my systems as being important to notify me as a black list, and high priority list for my VIP customers. Not practical? None of them work? :'(
 

jmcu

Known around here
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
458
Reaction score
693
Location
New York
I know, I know - and I don't CARE. I love gadgets, and I can afford it by selling equipment I have!

Would everyone agree that the:

SD6AL830V-HNI
SD6AL830V-HNI | Dahua Technology - Dahua Technology

is superior in most if not ALL ways to...?

UNV IPC6248SR-X22 4K Ultra-HD IR PTZ
IPC6248SR-X22—Zhejiang Uniview Technologies Co., Ltd.

And... can I use the SD6AL830V-HNI to track people for say, 20 seconds or until they have recognized their face -- in a given region?

Does anyone know how LOUD the SD6AL830V-HNI is?
Can I program it to zoom on the person if they stay still?

I have the SD6AE830V-HNI and can tell you that it is pretty loud. It is mounted about 20' up and you can hear it from 20' away.

I had the Uniview x-22 (8mp) lens and think the picture quality was better than the dahua 830v but it did not play well with my Dahua NVR's.
It didn't like to zoom very well.

I have not found a NVR that can handle a 4k picture smoothly, unless it is stationary.
As fenderman said ...auto tracking is a gimmick.. It is hit or miss when it works.. you can tell it to track for a set period of time.. but it never stays locked on for long..

Below is the Uniview lens

 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
36,903
Reaction score
21,275
I don't need it to recognize faces of people I don't know - but of people I categorize in my systems as being important to notify me as a black list, and high priority list for my VIP customers. Not practical? None of them work? :'(
you are not reading what I wrote...the camera cannot recognize ANY face...face detection only recognizes that a face was there...it cannot and will not differentiate between faces...it also does not work well..useless...you are living in a dreamland unless you are willing to spend serious money...
 

TrumanHW

n3wb
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
27
Reaction score
3
you are not reading what I wrote...the camera cannot recognize ANY face...face detection only recognizes that a face was there...it cannot and will not differentiate between faces...it also does not work well..useless...you are living in a dreamland unless you are willing to spend serious money...
That makes SO much more sense. And, actually, I was floored when I saw that spec -- but just thought that while I wasn't looking - and running my tech biz... that companies knew how to (NOT compare against DB of names) differentiate the people who visit your location! But... if that, too, is an absurd hope, I'm happier to ignore it than spend a nickel on it. :)

Curious -- do you know how many pixels across someone's face you'd need to identify them, personally? This way I can see the distance to average person... and make sure I have the correct quantity of pixels per degrees at a specific distance.

Lastly, do you see a reason to buy Bosch, Axis, Sony, Panasonic, etc - over Dahua Int'l ? Are any of them worth the difference in price?

:)

THANK YOU

PS, do you know of a system that does recognize faces? If so, can I check it out? It's always fun to watch stuff burgeon on the precipice of accessibility to pro-sumer.
 

TrumanHW

n3wb
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
27
Reaction score
3
It seems natural then to assume that what happens in the film world is similar to what happens (most of the time) in the real world. We might think that our faces are constantly being tracked and recognized as we walk past security cameras in city centers – but this is not actually the case.

Not only would such a system require millions of cameras capable of producing high-quality footage, but it would also require the integration of photo-ID databases such as mugshots from every police force, previous passport images, and driving license images for everyone in the country.

And yet even if this high level of integration was possible, a far more basic problem still exists – facial recognition systems are still not 100% accurate. but jason bourne got his to work ;)

I get you --- but my goal wasn't to cross check it against my NSA database. ;)

It was to know when VIP customers are in... to ensure they're handled properly...

And when scammers are in - to 86 them if appropriate, deny service, or call the police.

Thats all... basically, I'd have to name them... and then use the correlation of groups to decide my course of actions.

No one's giving me access to LexisNexis - and even if they did, that crappy CPU ain't cross referencing a gazillion faces...:)

BUT, even with my less ambitious goal, I do see the impracticality of it - yet it's STILL useful... because some workers SUCK at sales, and I want to KNOW when a customer comes in. :)
 

TrumanHW

n3wb
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
27
Reaction score
3
I'd say I'm really asking -- is whether I should risk the international version camera (Dahua) -- instead of using the model I have.

Build quality / reliability
Compatibility with a Dahua (updated firmware) NVR.
Whether H.265 on the Dahua would crush the H.264 on the Uniview

Ju know mang?
 

marku2

Known around here
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
Messages
919
Reaction score
263
Location
Australia
Are you in the pawn shop business I'm getting the vibe assuming some customers are VIP and some are a pita,me I would recommend to review footage of the previous days trading and educating staff if they can't sell after you have shown them get new ones that cam footage in the English street with the girl on the bike looks pretty good to me
We all would love a system that if a family member rocked up the cameras would recognise who it is and everyone else would be flagged up as an intruder and send the email maybe one day it would happen look up the statistics on those e gates at airports there not reliable quite a few people have gone through on there spouses passport and that scans your photo then scans your passport any how good luck on finding your system and post up how it's going when you get it
 

TrumanHW

n3wb
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
27
Reaction score
3
Are you in the pawn shop business I'm getting the vibe assuming some customers are VIP and some are a pita,me I would recommend to review footage of the previous days trading and educating staff if they can't sell after you have shown them get new ones that cam footage in the English street with the girl on the bike looks pretty good to me
We all would love a system that if a family member rocked up the cameras would recognise who it is and everyone else would be flagged up as an intruder and send the email maybe one day it would happen look up the statistics on those e gates at airports there not reliable quite a few people have gone through on there spouses passport and that scans your photo then scans your passport any how good luck on finding your system and post up how it's going when you get it
CLOSE actually. I own a small computer store, where EVVVVVVERYONE says they need to talk to me and only me. lol. but when I'm not there, people will also tell my staff that I agreed to things that I wouldn't agree to if I was under general anesthesia! So I can't WAIT to have A/V to jump on an intercom and just blurt out, "not!"

But we buy and sell. Whats funny is when people call and ask if I buy and I'm like, "Hey guys, turn off the assembly line for a sec, okay?" :) YES, of course we buy.
 

TrumanHW

n3wb
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
27
Reaction score
3
Thanks dude. Appreciate that. I'm going to assume it's effing EXORBITANT. When NONE of the websites in that industry... include cost!? I don't imagine it's a price their proud of... since they want you on the phone. And this isn't a make or break issue, it'd just be cool. CERTAINLY not worth 50 Gs. If of course, they do a vastly scaled down version in which I create my OWN database..? And it's the DB they charge hard for...? We would probably just make our own ... all I care about is adding "VIP" and "PITA" customers whom I see to get riiiiiiid. of :)
 

Fastb

Known around here
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,342
Reaction score
934
Location
Seattle, Wa
In a past life, I worked for a company that put cams and NVRs on city buses. The bus companies were very interested in facial identification, but of a more modest scope. They didn't want to identify everyone (privacy issues of the bus riding public). Instead, the face db would only contain people who had been banned from riding the bus, due to past violence, crimes, etc. Or people who had threatened drivers.
If a banned or flagged person boarded the bus, they wanted to know. Video footage would be downloaded with the buses cellular link, and back at dispatch, a the video would be viewed and a course of action would be determined. Maybe send a police car. Maybe have transit security board at an upcoming bus stop.
My company was only peripherally involved, since the recognition processing would occur in the NVR, but in a secondary computer that had access to the video feed.
We did hear the FD application was deemed feasible by FD vendors (said the bus company). One reason: The camera focused on the bus door, trainied on people entering the bus, was in a very controlled environment. Everybody climbs the 3-4 steps to board the bus. Faces would be framed nicely, and have good pixel/ft image density. Nice lighting. People boarding will look at the steps, then the fare box, then look down the bus aisle.
Lastly, if someone had been arrested for bus violence in the past, those banned people would have a mug shot available for the FD db.
It seemed to us that this was do-able.
Much less ambitious than our gov't customer, who used our system in gov't Chevy Suburbans. They wanted our system to scan people as the vehicle drove, to identify terrorists in crowds. And quickly.
FD is very challenging with today's technology. Key words: "today's technology".

FD will be challenging legally and socially. Should people be identified as they move about? By who? For what purpose? How long is the data kept? And can some entity "connect the dots", to map a route that a citizen traveled from Point A to Point B, where they shopped, etc?
 

marku2

Known around here
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
Messages
919
Reaction score
263
Location
Australia
have a look at movidius there partnered up with hikvision dji and many other company's maybe one day it will happen
 

Ookie

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
99
Reaction score
68
FD will be challenging legally and socially. Should people be identified as they move about? By who? For what purpose? How long is the data kept? And can some entity "connect the dots", to map a route that a citizen traveled from Point A to Point B, where they shopped, etc?
You couldn't be more correct about this. Or at least I hope so.

People tend to be much more concerned with this stuff when the government goes it. Lots are all up in arms about how the NSA spies on US citizens (and rightfully so).

What is less visible is the incredible number of license plate readers that have been placed along highways. In my state, nearly every VMS (variable message sign--the digital displays on a tow trailer that are used to mark highway construction) has one. Basically, we are damn close to the point where the government has a GPS on everyone's car.

There are pretty much no limits to retention on this stuff. And in areas where there are limits, tow truck and cab companies have gotten into business with privately owned readers selling the data to the government.

I'm all for it with regard to real time capture of criminals and terrorists. But there has to be a limit on how long the stuff can be retained.

Still, what the government does pales in comparison to what private companies are doing. And no one says anything about it because not many people know.

The level to which companies are tracking browsing history, location from cell phone data, etc. is beyond insane. Building personally identifiable profiles, and selling them to people, etc.

News flash that not many people know about: a lot of retailers are using systems to track individuals as they enter and leave stores via Wi-Fi. Smartphones constantly send out a MAC address even when you are not connected to Wi-Fi. You can be tracked without connecting. Use your credit card enough times and you can be identified (Apple has responded by making the iPhone spoof MAC addresses).

The technical challenges to accurate facial recognition are going to be surmounted in the next 5-10 years. I'm confident that people will put enough pressure on the government to curb abuses. With regard to the retail sector, I'm less optimistic.

People really need to wake up and demand legal protections to private companies collecting massive databases about them. At the very least, you should have a right to access what they have to ensure that it is correct.
 

Ookie

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
99
Reaction score
68
On a more relevant note...

How does the Dahua 4K PTZ offering compare to the Hikvision 4PTZ (which is twice the price)? I notice that the physical size of the sensor on both is quite small.

Would I be better off with 3MP models (sensor size=night performance).

Yes, I know that PTZ is a gimmick. Been in the business a long time and we used fixed high resolution models for most everything. Just want a PTZ to play with.
 

Fastb

Known around here
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,342
Reaction score
934
Location
Seattle, Wa
@Ookie,
I share many of your sentiments. Retail is investing a lot of thought, effort and money in tracking consumers.
We all know RFID is catching on. In a previous life, I was involved with RFID and large retailers. RFID tags on items help with keeping inventory accurate, tracking the location of material in warehouses and the retail floor, and with checkout. Retailers demand first: RFID on pallets of goods, 2nd: the boxes on the pallet, and 3rd: on the individual items (if they're expensive enough). Unlike UPC, each RFID tag is unique, the so-called sociaal security number for every pallet, box, and increasingly, item. Manufacturers use RFID on the item to help track the items on the factory floor as they're being assembled.

Enough of the background info. Here's something a certain retailer was interested in installing years ago.
Say a pair of shoes has an embedded RFID tag, buried within the shoe by the manufacturer during shoe assembly. The retailer scans the RFID of the shoes during the checkout and payment process. The shoes are now linked to that particular customer. When the customer wears the shoes on a future trip to the retailer, an RFID scanner in the doorway of the store reads the RFID tags. The retailer knows that Joe Smith just entered the store. When he enters the dressing room, the retailer knows it's Joe Smith, and his history of recent purchases. The dressing room knows what clothing items Joe carried in to try on, due to RFID in the item, or on the "hang tag" that has size and price on it. A flat panel in the dressing room will make suggestions for other clothing items (or other colors) that compliment the item Joe is considering, and shows images of the suggestions on a male (not a female, since it's "Joe"). It makes for a "better shopping experience" says the retailer. Hmmm

True story: A guy slipped on spilled yogurt in the dairy section of a supermarket. He fell, got injured, and needed medical help. A few days later, he received a letter from the retailer. It stated that if he was considering asking for damages or filing a lawsuit, the retailer would have no choice but to reveal how much alcohol he regularly purchased. And that his fall might be due to being intoxicated, and not the store's fault. Point is: The retailer used the customer's purchase history in a preemptive manner to intimidate him. I never looked at "customer loyalty cards" the same way after that.

Las Vegas casinos are a big user of FD. They want to know when a "whale" (their term for big spenders) enters the casino. Then the casino sends a host or hostess to provide services (hassle free check-in, gambling chips, their favorite drink, and escorted towards the VIP gambling rooms.
Also casinos want to know when banned people have entered (card counters, cheaters, past trouble-makers, etc). Or police or gaming authorities.
The casinos are looking into sharing FD databases (but they won't share the whales faces because the big spender info is "proprietary").
Even though we were making custom auto-id equipment for the casinos, they would only talk in general terms how it fit into their bigger system. They'd wink and say "you'd be amazed at what we're doing".

Fastb
 
Top