Help someone thats new please

[TimSee]

Hello I am new to this and I am looking for any support that I can get..
I am looking at getting about 10 to 12 8MP cams POE using the TP-Ling T1500.
I would like to use Blue Iris

I am running cable this weekend or next (I am starting with 4 cams then eventually adding more).
I am not to sure on the tech the specs when it comes to computers I can navigate software install programs put stuff together I just dont no much about specs.

I would like to have a main server at home where I can have everything stored from the cams. I would like my recordings to be saved hoping for at least 1 week if not more. I dont want to have to be worried if my computer will be able to handle everything..

I guess what I am asking is that is there a all in one system you would recommend to run blue iris that can support external hard drives for store or a smaller server with a few TB hard drivers? Thanks for any help

 

[bp2008]

Hi.

While Blue Iris can handle this, it is getting close to the limit of what can be handled well. Unlike most VMS (video management software), Blue Iris always decodes incoming video from all cameras. Video decoding is very CPU-intensive work, and 8 MP cameras produce a lot of video, so Blue Iris doesn't really handle them efficiently compared to other VMS.

In this wiki page you can find my rule-of-thumb for choosing a CPU for Blue Iris, but for convenience, I will copy it here:

0-500 MP/s ----- 3rd-7th gen i5 desktop CPU (4 cores)
500-800 MP/s --- 3rd-7th gen i7 desktop CPU (4 cores + hyperthreading) or 8th-9th gen i5 desktop CPU (6 cores)
800-1100 MP/s -- i7-8700 (6 cores + hyperthreading) or i7-9700 (8 cores) or the K edition of either
1100-1500 MP/s - i9-9900K
1500+ MP/s ----- Then it varies. Pick something near the top of this chart, or consider a different VMS than Blue Iris.

The trouble is, 12 8MP cams running at their default resolution (30 FPS) is 2986 MP/s (megapixels per second). This is beyond what you can expect Blue Iris to handle smoothly no matter how much you spend on the PC. If you cut the frame rates in half, to 15 FPS, this still produces very usable video but it is only 1493 MP/s which can be handled on a $500 CPU (plus the cost of all the other PC components, you'd likely spend well over $1000 on the PC hardware not including hard drives!)

To reduce the load enough to handle it on a cheap (~$220) used computer from ebay, you would need to reduce frame rates all the way to the ballpark of 5 to 8 FPS. These are still usable frame rates but they are not pretty to look at.

There is one thing I haven't mentioned yet. Blue Iris's has a "Limit decoding" feature which is described near the bottom of this page: Optimizing Blue Iris's CPU Usage | IP Cam Talk -- What it does is make Blue Iris only decode the i-frames in your stream, which appear once every 1-4 seconds (configurable in the camera's web interface). This reduces the CPU load by an enormous amount, so you could even run the cameras at 30 FPS on a relatively cheap system. But this setting is a huge compromise. It lets you record at whatever frame rate you want without requiring a lot of CPU time, but it destroys your live viewing experience and strongly hinders Blue Iris's ability to perform motion detection. It will also make it risky to use the timeline to view video clips from multiple cameras at the same time, because the "Limit decoding" feature does not apply to clip playback.

Speaking of storage, how much space you need depends on if you plan to record 24/7. To record 12 video streams continuously at a fairly high bit rate (lets say, 10 Mbps each), you would need about 1.3 TB per day. So a single 10 TB hard drive should come pretty close to providing a week's storage. Or potentially much longer if you are willing to compromise on video quality. If you don't need to record 24/7, and record only motion-detection events instead, then the same hard drive would likely hold several months if not a year or more.

 

[bp2008]

External hard drives are not a wise choice for a video server due to them not typically being robust and stable enough for 24/7 operation. When I tried doing that, I found that the drive disappeared off the system every couple months and I had to unplug it and plug it back in!

 

[TimSee]

Hi.

While Blue Iris can handle this, it is getting close to the limit of what can be handled well. Unlike most VMS (video management software), Blue Iris always decodes incoming video from all cameras. Video decoding is very CPU-intensive work, and 8 MP cameras produce a lot of video, so Blue Iris doesn't really handle them efficiently compared to other VMS.

In this wiki page you can find my rule-of-thumb for choosing a CPU for Blue Iris, but for convenience, I will copy it here:

0-500 MP/s ----- 3rd-7th gen i5 desktop CPU (4 cores)
500-800 MP/s --- 3rd-7th gen i7 desktop CPU (4 cores + hyperthreading) or 8th-9th gen i5 desktop CPU (6 cores)
800-1100 MP/s -- i7-8700 (6 cores + hyperthreading) or i7-9700 (8 cores) or the K edition of either
1100-1500 MP/s - i9-9900K
1500+ MP/s ----- Then it varies. Pick something near the top of this chart, or consider a different VMS than Blue Iris.

The trouble is, 12 8MP cams running at their default resolution (30 FPS) is 2986 MP/s (megapixels per second). This is beyond what you can expect Blue Iris to handle smoothly no matter how much you spend on the PC. If you cut the frame rates in half, to 15 FPS, this still produces very usable video but it is only 1493 MP/s which can be handled on a $500 CPU (plus the cost of all the other PC components, you'd likely spend well over $1000 on the PC hardware not including hard drives!)

To reduce the load enough to handle it on a cheap (~$220) used computer from ebay, you would need to reduce frame rates all the way to the ballpark of 5 to 8 FPS. These are still usable frame rates but they are not pretty to look at.

There is one thing I haven't mentioned yet. Blue Iris's has a "Limit decoding" feature which is described near the bottom of this page: Optimizing Blue Iris's CPU Usage | IP Cam Talk -- What it does is make Blue Iris only decode the i-frames in your stream, which appear once every 1-4 seconds (configurable in the camera's web interface). This reduces the CPU load by an enormous amount, so you could even run the cameras at 30 FPS on a relatively cheap system. But this setting is a huge compromise. It lets you record at whatever frame rate you want without requiring a lot of CPU time, but it destroys your live viewing experience and strongly hinders Blue Iris's ability to perform motion detection. It will also make it risky to use the timeline to view video clips from multiple cameras at the same time, because the "Limit decoding" feature does not apply to clip playback.

Speaking of storage, how much space you need depends on if you plan to record 24/7. To record 12 video streams continuously at a fairly high bit rate (lets say, 10 Mbps each), you would need about 1.3 TB per day. So a single 10 TB hard drive should come pretty close to providing a week's storage. Or potentially much longer if you are willing to compromise on video quality. If you don't need to record 24/7, and record only motion-detection events instead, then the same hard drive would likely hold several months if not a year or more.

Thank you for the info, is there something else your would recommend I have not bought any cams or software only my wire and jacks.
The cams I was looking at are
Amcrest UltraHD 4K (8MP) Outdoor Bullet POE IP Camera, 3840x2160, 131ft NightVision, 2.8mm Lens, IP67 Weatherproof, MicroSD Recording, Black (IP8M-2496EB)

I would set most of the cams at only turn on when motion is detected in certain area. I might have 2 thats 24/7 running on my crazy neighbor side of the house.

I am open at looking for other cams or systsems that will work

 

[TimSee]

External hard drives are not a wise choice for a video server due to them not typically being robust and stable enough for 24/7 operation. When I tried doing that, I found that the drive disappeared off the system every couple months and I had to unplug it and plug it back in!

Thanks for the info I was thinking more of a server instead of portable external hard drives

 

[bp2008]

I would recommend this camera instead. It is a little more expensive but has a bigger sensor and better low-light performance.

2.8mm (very wide angle): http://amzn.com/B07KQ4Z4QP
4mm (medium-wide angle): http://amzn.com/B07FP5HHSQ
6mm (narrow angle): http://amzn.com/B07NVK3DNG

Don't just buy all wide angles. I use 6mm to get better captures at important locations.

You can't actually have the cams only turn on when motion is detected. They'll always be on and consuming CPU time. What you can do is record only on motion detection to save space, if you want, but this does not save significant CPU time. If anything it slightly increases CPU time due to needing to run a motion detection routine.

 

[TimSee]

I would recommend this camera instead. It is a little more expensive but has a bigger sensor and better low-light performance.

2.8mm (very wide angle): http://amzn.com/B07KQ4Z4QP
4mm (medium-wide angle): http://amzn.com/B07FP5HHSQ
6mm (narrow angle): http://amzn.com/B07NVK3DNG

Don't just buy all wide angles. I use 6mm to get better captures at important locations.

You can't actually have the cams only turn on when motion is detected. They'll always be on and consuming CPU time. What you can do is record only on motion detection to save space, if you want, but this does not save significant CPU time. If anything it slightly increases CPU time due to needing to run a motion detection routine.

Thanks for sharing. I will look into these cams. Is there any computer out there you would recommend to use that has all the parts in it already just might need to expand the hard drive to something larger?
Or should I be looking at something else like a complete kit from like lorex or other brands?

 

[bp2008]

Before anyone can recommend a computer, you need to figure out if you can live with low frame rates (5-8 FPS) or alternatively the "Limit decoding" feature and all that comes with it.

 

[bp2008]

If you want something powerful enough to handle 12 8MP cams at 15 FPS, then at this time I would recommend buying something based on i9-9900K. A cheap prebuilt system would be in the area of $1000-$1300. Example: https://utopiacomputers.com/i9-9900k-3-6-ghz-32gb-ddr4-120gb-ssd-win-10-gaming-uc51/

You could add up to four 3.5 inch hard drives to that, but you only need one.

 

[bp2008]

If you can live with half the frame rate, this computer is 1/5th the price and a bit less than half as fast: Dell OptiPlex 7020 i7 -4790 CPU 8.00 G @3.60GHz Windows 8.1 Pro with 22" Monitor | eBay

Similar listings: i7-4790 | eBay

The most important things are to get one that comes with Windows already on it, and 8-16 GB of RAM, and not i7-4790S (the S indicates a less powerful version).

 

[looney2ns]

Study this: Cliff Notes
Decide if you "really" need 8mp cams.
2mp starlights do much better at night.
Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE | IP Cam Talk
Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris | IP Cam Talk

 

[bp2008]

Or do like @looney2ns suggests and buy 2MP starlight cams instead. Then one of those i7-4790 ebay computers would be fine for all your cams at 15-20 FPS.

 

[TimSee]

I would recommend this camera instead. It is a little more expensive but has a bigger sensor and better low-light performance.

2.8mm (very wide angle): http://amzn.com/B07KQ4Z4QP
4mm (medium-wide angle): http://amzn.com/B07FP5HHSQ
6mm (narrow angle): http://amzn.com/B07NVK3DNG

Don't just buy all wide angles. I use 6mm to get better captures at important locations.

You can't actually have the cams only turn on when motion is detected. They'll always be on and consuming CPU time. What you can do is record only on motion detection to save space, if you want, but this does not save significant CPU time. If anything it slightly increases CPU time due to needing to run a motion detection routine.

If I go with these cams with the less expensive computer you recommend below should that work?

I would prefer as clear as I can get for video incase crazy neighbor does something to my house.

If I go with the more $ PC as is for 10 cams how longer do you think the recorded data would stay? Using the cams you recommend.

 

[SouthernYankee]

--------------------------------
Read study plan before spending any money.
The best outside home security cameras for low light are 2MP and are run at 15FPS.
--------------------------------
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the cliff notes and other items in the wiki. The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) | IP Cam Talk in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras or ICPT Night eye cameras (https://store.ipcamtalk.com/) if you need good low light cameras.
2) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
3) Do not use wifi cameras.
4) Do not use cloud storage
5) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
6) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
7) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
8) Do not use reolink, ring, nest cameras (they are junk)
9) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
10) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
11) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
12) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 8ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
13) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)

Cameras to look at
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW5231-ZE Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPC-T5442TM-AS Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
DS-2CD2325FWD-I

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-k35a-3mp-cube-camera.37581/


Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not g