5 guys apprehended

[looney2ns]

Heres the thing, if you value your lifestyle, your job, your family, your house, cars, your financial life, etc, Don't be bent on shooting at people over "stuff". That's why you have insurance, for the "stuff". If you do shoot at or hit someone over stuff and If you do anything wrong in the local prosecutors eyes, you're toast. You could lose everything I mentioned above even if you are proven innocent by a jury. Take some real training, know the local laws backwards and forwards.

Just because you "think" you should be able to protect your stuff, doesn't give you a get out of jail free card.

Police response time story. We took care of a cat a friends house while they were out of town. We go in at 2pm, go to turn off the alarm and my wife had forgotten what the code is. So alarm goes off, house phone rings, it's the alarm call center, I don't know the secret password, they don't believe me, as they shouldn't. We take care of the cat. Call the home owner to tell him what happened get code to turn off alarm. We finish and leave the house. It's been 25 minutes since we set off the alarm. As we are leaving, 1/2 mile down the road we pass a police car heading to the house. This is a semi rural area.

That's why there is a saying, when seconds count, police are only minutes away.

 

[looney2ns]

Probably want to turn cameras off when it comes to popping caps into some scumbag. Be sure the bullets always enter the front of the body and if needed , drag the dead body onto your property with a weapon next to him. Dead man tell no tails.

And the police will figure out in about 10 minutes that you tampered with evidence and your goose will be cooked.

 

[Fastb]

@bigredfish,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Re: #1

I don't get every alert at the moment it happens because I don't have my iPhone hard-wired into my ear 24/7

Since I'm self monitoring, I want to know the instant something is happening on my property. And I don't want to be hard-wired from phone-to-ear, just like you.
Here's what I do.
a) use gDMSS Plus. Push notifications are almost instantaneous. The audible phone alert tone is distinctive & unique.
b) I use multiple trip-wires in my IVS capable cameras. So when someone arrives, I get multiple alerts. False alerts are rare, but they do happen. If I receive a single push notification, or single email, I can ignore the event (since it's mosty likely a false alert)
c) my phone doesn't make a tone when email arrives, just vibrates.
d) when an NVR email alert with snapshot arrives at my phone, I use a Gmail filter to play a unique tone loudly.

so with phone in pocket, the tones tell me when something is up. And the tones aren't lost in a cacophony of other tones...

Fringe benefit:
When I'm home and hear the tones, I say "that's wifey", and I go unlock the front door and help unload the car if needded.

Fringe detriment:
The dog has learned the tones. And reacts like it was the doorbell. Woof, woof, woof.....

Fastb

 

[hmjgriffon]

That's better than being dead.

You seem like a nice fellow and I like your posts here. But I wonder if you have a ccw? I would think you would benefit from a proper firearms training class. Some of your comments are not wise. God forbid you are ever involved in a shooting. And if you are, the opposition attorney will quite possibly see your comments here as to your "mindset" and your life will be changed forever. You're not Rambo, my friend. Perhaps take a step back and learn about true self defense. Rushing head in is a bad tactic and will get someone hurt. Probably you. Believe it or not, there are tougher guys than you in the world. And even the weaker ones have great lawyers.

Respectfully.

Nolo Contendere

I have CCW, and there is nothing wrong with not putting up with being a victim, one thing to remember is dead men tell no tails, I'm fairly up on the laws of web you can use deadly force and will not use them until I feel I am legally justified, if it's a good shoot my "mindset" is irrelevant, I'm really not worried. Just because you can run doesn't mean you have to or should expect others to when they legally do not have to, in Florida we have stand your ground, if you feel your life is in danger you have NO duty to retreat. Do I think I'm Rambo? No, do I think I am guaranteed to win any confrontation? No, but what I do think it's that I am prepared to put up a fight and will not be a victim ever again if I can help it. I might die, but it sure won't be on my knees. If I get lucky, they will get what they deserve, it's not for everyone, you handle situations any way you feel is right, somebody had to stand up and say no, you will not push me around, or make me a victim, if I end up in prison I will take solace in the fact that I did what was right and the world is one less scumbag that didn't deserve to be in it to begin with. I'm just a normal guy.

 

[hmjgriffon]

I'm fully aware you are not allowed to kill someone over stuff (in Florida), but you are fully allowed to use non deadly force on someone who tresspasses, and if they are in your house when you arrive you certainly are allowed to use deadly force. So either way they are getting shot or the crap beat out of them, depending on where they are, and if they pull a gun on you, even in the yard you are now allowed to defend yourself with deadly force. Like I said, I stay up on the laws, I might vent a little here but I know what I can and can't do. As for insurance, why even have a camera system if you aren't going to do anything anyways? I mean yeah maybe you get some evidence, or maybe they cover their face and burn their clothes later, if you're just going to let insurance handle it you're wasting your money.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[hmjgriffon]

I will leave you with a quote. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[NoloC]

I will leave you with a quote. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

That is a great quote and one of my favorites as well.

Have you ever considered you may not be "the good man"?

Good men do not view the taking of a life lightly. They do not appoint themselves God, Judge, Jury and Executioner as you seem to have.

And as to your Florida laws, please google "George Zimmerman" and see how that worked out. While you're at it try "O.J. Simpson" for a lesson on not being charged in a criminal case, but the consequences of a Civil Case ruling.

Perhaps you should not be so consumed by what you believe you "can do" but rather what you should do.

I will engage no further. Good luck to you.

Nolo Contendere

 

[bababouy]

...maybe we can turn this into a pit-bull thread next. We are all on this forum for one reason, security and technology, and sharing what works for each of us. Lets keep it positive and shine a light on the positive things, some of us may prefer to shine an LED light on the positive and thats OK.

 

[erkme73]

Quick story about trespass in Florida. I regularly get door taggers that leave ads on my front door. Whether it's door tag, or sticky note, or a curled up 8.5x11 flier, they litter up the entry. Since I rarely ever go through that door, and I often travel for weeks at a time, the buildup happens quickly. It is a welcome mat to anyone looking for an unoccupied house to break into.

So I put up "NO SOLICITING" signs on the door and in the garden. Didn't work. I confronted a guy doing free lawn surveys. He boldly said, "Oh, I'm not soliciting. That would be knocking on your door trying to sell you something." I called the non-emergency number for my sheriff's department to find out what I can do to stop the trash from building up.

The guy I talked to did some research with me on the phone and concluded that I needed to display a "NO TRESPASSING" sign on the house where it can be seen from the street (my driveway is at best 40' long). He said that if I catch someone on camera depositing their material after the sign is up, and I contact the sheriff's office quickly enough that they can still catch the guy in the neighborhood, they can press charges for trespassing. 10 min later, I had NO TRESPASSING signs on order from Amazon.

A few days after putting them up, I had a guy tag my door. I have an IR beam at the porch entry to let me know the moment someone is there - so I caught the guy. I pointed to the NO TRESPASSING sign - and he immediately began to apologize profusely... "I didn't see it sir, I am so sorry." His boss showed up moments later in a pickup. Both confirmed that they know not to set foot on properties with those signs. "COOL!" I thought, this might actually work.

A few more days go by, and I bust this beatch...


Haggered old woman. I open the door and call her back, again pointing to the sign. She said, "I don't care", and went on her way. I called the sheriff again letting them know I now had a case of someone trespassing. A deputy called me back from his cell phone within 10 minutes. He'd found the woman and "shooed" her away. I told him that given her rather nasty disposition, I'd really like to cause a little pain. He said that unless they witness the offender ON MY PROPERTY themselves, they cannot press charges. Trespass requires that an officer actually witness the crime. He did say if it happens again, I can confront and detain someone on my property until the police arrive - but no thanks. Ugh.

So, the TL;DR is this: In FL, if you're going to try and have someone charged for trespassing, an officer has to witness them on the property. You are empowered to affect a citizens arrest (detain the trespasser until the police arrive), but that's hardly wise.

I only share this story because of the previous post where the cops told the homeowner not to play cop and get their tag for later investigation/prosecution. In FL, that wouldn't work.

 

[fenderman]

@erkme73 they are lying to you...there is no need for the officer to witness the trespass...

 

[nayr]

laws are laws; dont matter if a LEO witnesses it.. otherwise imna go rob some banks in Flordia.. as long as as a cop dont witness it then im good right?

 

[hmjgriffon]

Quick story about trespass in Florida. I regularly get door taggers that leave ads on my front door. Whether it's door tag, or sticky note, or a curled up 8.5x11 flier, they litter up the entry. Since I rarely ever go through that door, and I often travel for weeks at a time, the buildup happens quickly. It is a welcome mat to anyone looking for an unoccupied house to break into.

So I put up "NO SOLICITING" signs on the door and in the garden. Didn't work. I confronted a guy doing free lawn surveys. He boldly said, "Oh, I'm not soliciting. That would be knocking on your door trying to sell you something." I called the non-emergency number for my sheriff's department to find out what I can do to stop the trash from building up.

The guy I talked to did some research with me on the phone and concluded that I needed to display a "NO TRESPASSING" sign on the house where it can be seen from the street (my driveway is at best 40' long). He said that if I catch someone on camera depositing their material after the sign is up, and I contact the sheriff's office quickly enough that they can still catch the guy in the neighborhood, they can press charges for trespassing. 10 min later, I had NO TRESPASSING signs on order from Amazon.

A few days after putting them up, I had a guy tag my door. I have an IR beam at the porch entry to let me know the moment someone is there - so I caught the guy. I pointed to the NO TRESPASSING sign - and he immediately began to apologize profusely... "I didn't see it sir, I am so sorry." His boss showed up moments later in a pickup. Both confirmed that they know not to set foot on properties with those signs. "COOL!" I thought, this might actually work.

A few more days go by, and I bust this beatch...
View attachment 14127

Haggered old woman. I open the door and call her back, again pointing to the sign. She said, "I don't care", and went on her way. I called the sheriff again letting them know I now had a case of someone trespassing. A deputy called me back from his cell phone within 10 minutes. He'd found the woman and "shooed" her away. I told him that given her rather nasty disposition, I'd really like to cause a little pain. He said that unless they witness the offender ON MY PROPERTY themselves, they cannot press charges. Trespass requires that an officer actually witness the crime. He did say if it happens again, I can confront and detain someone on my property until the police arrive - but no thanks. Ugh.

So, the TL;DR is this: In FL, if you're going to try and have someone charged for trespassing, an officer has to witness them on the property. You are empowered to affect a citizens arrest (detain the trespasser until the police arrive), but that's hardly wise.

I only share this story because of the previous post where the cops told the homeowner not to play cop and get their tag for later investigation/prosecution. In FL, that wouldn't work.

Please do not take legal advice from cops, you'll end up in prison. If someone tresspasses, you can use non lethal force on them, not sure if you can detain them. If they threaten you and you believe your life is in danger, you can defend yourself with deadly force. Best thing for you to do is put a fence around the front yard and lock the gate.

 

[hmjgriffon]

That is a great quote and one of my favorites as well.

Have you ever considered you may not be "the good man"?

Good men do not view the taking of a life lightly. They do not appoint themselves God, Judge, Jury and Executioner as you seem to have.

And as to your Florida laws, please google "George Zimmerman" and see how that worked out. While you're at it try "O.J. Simpson" for a lesson on not being charged in a criminal case, but the consequences of a Civil Case ruling.

Perhaps you should not be so consumed by what you believe you "can do" but rather what you should do.

I will engage no further. Good luck to you.

Nolo Contendere

I will do whatever I feel is right within the law thanks, you can hide in your safe space.

 

[looney2ns]

Talk to your local prosecutor. Getting legal advice from the popo isn't in your best interest.

 

[erkme73]

@erkme73 they are lying to you...there is no need for the officer to witness the trespass...

I guess I need to research this some more. The officer I initially spoke with on the phone was pretty clear in his statement that the video evidence (if clear enough to provide identification) would suffice. I did get the feeling that when the deputy called, he was trying to make excuses for avoiding the paperwork. Thanks for the nudge.

 

[Fastb]

they are lying to you...there is no need for the officer to witness the trespass...

Red light cameras can't issue a ticket (but only issue a fine). Reason: a PO didn't witness the car running the red light.
The red light cam does a good job of capturing the driver's face, so you can't say the wife or kid borrowed the car and ran the red light.
Point is: Camera gives good evidence, but doesn't meet the level of being "witnessed by PO"

Traffic legalities are different than trespassing, admittedly.....

@erkme73, let us know what you find.....

Fastb

 

[fenderman]

Red light cameras can't issue a ticket (but only issue a fine). Reason: a PO didn't witness the car running the red light.
The red light cam does a good job of capturing the driver's face, so you can't say the wife or kid borrowed the car and ran the red light.
Point is: Camera gives good evidence, but doesn't meet the level of being "witnessed by PO"

Traffic legalities are different than trespassing, admittedly.....

@erkme73, let us know what you find.....

Fastb

Your comparison is flawed. In states where no points are issued, red light cameras actually do not capture faces but rather the vehicle itself and the plates or they are simply tying to get folks to pay the fine instead of dispute it.
Its really simply, a police officer does not have to see a crime occurring for the defendant to be charge, that notion is silly on its face. I can go down to my local municipal court and swear out a complaint of trespassing, theft, heck even speeding against you with nothing more than my word.

 

[nayr]

Here a PO has to write the citation issued by a camera.. so a LEO does witness the event, however they only issue the citation against the vehicle and not the driver.. because they do not have any evidence of whom was behind the wheel.. even with a photo alot of family members share a resemblance.

My wife got nailed and it was clearly her; but my name is on the vehicle so it came to me.. I gave to her and she paid it cause she did err, the citation gave us a link to the full video online and she didnt have much of a defence.

anyhow; cops think they know the law but they only know what they been trained to do.. and that is largely blowing smoke up citizen's ass, always take anything they tell you with a grain of salt.. despite appearances they have no education in legal matters, or the'd of gone into law instead of law enforcement.

 

[erkme73]

The deputy that said he had to witness it gave several examples of laws where witness testimony or video evidence is sufficient for prosecution, and others where it is not. I don't know if it hinges around criminal vs. civil infractions, but he said if we witnessed a neighbor driving without a license, and we took photos of him driving, the cops could NOT act on it unless they saw him behind the wheel. But, if that driver hit someone and caused injury and fled, then witness testimony and video evidence would be sufficient to prosecute. Likewise burglary, or home invasions don't require an officer to witness first-hand - but simple trespass does.

I've tried finding a way to contact my State Attorney (or assistant SA), but their "contact us" webpage is limited to USPS mail or phone calls. Every other government department has on-line submission forms or email addresses. I guess the SA's office doesn't want to hear from the serfs.

 

[NoloC]

I'm thinking one of the worst places to get legal advice is a camera forum.

That said, here's mine! In most states a misdemeanor must occur in the presence of the officer. So the deputy is probably correct.

Trespass can be criminal but that requires intent, again varies state to state. But if I cross your lawn on the way to my car, I have technically treapassed but it isn't a criminal violation. The guys in this OP, pretty clearly were criminal trespass as they obviously had intent to steal.

Might be best to have a neighbor or your gardner pick up the leaflets when you are out of town.

I'm heading back to my "safe space".