Looked through the Cliff notes, albeit fairly quickly, but didn't see anything pro or con about using RAID drive set up in PC-based NVR. Thoughts on using RAID 1?
To RAID 1 or not to RAID?
- Thread starter Whoaru99
- Start date
To quote a recent post (which I am unable to find): you are not a bank and likely don't need the same level of redundancy. Besides you'll want twice the storage space anyway to store all that sweet footage.
Almost everything you ever write to a surveillance drive is worthless, and the probability of disk failure is low. So, chances are even if you experience a disk failure, you will not lose any valuable video.
That said, if you want a better guarantee of data integrity and don't have any problem with spending twice as much on storage, go right ahead. It will work just fine.
That said, if you want a better guarantee of data integrity and don't have any problem with spending twice as much on storage, go right ahead. It will work just fine.
SouthernYankee
IPCT Contributor
If you have the drives for a mirror. set up a NAS and used clone cameras from BIue Iris to write to it. This will cover the system lost do to a major hardware failure of a thief of the PC.
In my experience, RAID of any type is not what it's cracked up to be, especially for home use. Video surveillance hard drives are purpose-built (more write than read) and that's what you should spend your time and money on, and in a conventional configuration, not RAID.
I have repaired hundreds of PC's in the last 30 years (yes before RAID) and the issues presented (at least to me) by RAID nullifies it's meager advantages...of course, that's just my opinion.
And certainly it's your call, so have at it and best of luck.
In my experience, RAID of any type is not what it's cracked up to be, especially for home use. Video surveillance hard drives are purpose-built (more write than read) and that's what you should spend your time and money on, and in a conventional configuration, not RAID.
I have repaired hundreds of PC's in the last 30 years (yes before RAID) and the issues presented (at least to me) by RAID nullifies it's meager advantages...of course, that's just my opinion.
And certainly it's your call, so have at it and best of luck.
I have repaired thousands of RAID disks in high-end storage systems (SAN - fibre based) - the price of a single disk nullifies against the data loss of that particular financial institution and the investment of an enterpise based hardware storage system. There was this one storage system which did forced hardware RAID 10 (on disks of 500MB scsi) whatever RAID you created on top of it. It took ages for the RAID construction to be finished, but hardware wise, they got an uptime of 99,99999%. However the sysadmins messed up more with the logical volumes hosted on that storage beast - ample people thought (and still think) that RAID works like a backup, but the truth is sad and disappointing: if a virus wipes out your logical volume's filesystem, your RAID is not going to save your @ss. Therefor I agree with @TonyR: RAID is good in many situation, but video surveillance is not one of them, except for the "storage" of critical clips (eg 2 simultanious motion detections on 2 different cams) - but you can simply sync/ftp those to an external system too (to avoid single point of failure). I do not keep offloaded clips, however my snapshots are dumped into a mailbox for "backup".
Good luck!
CC
Exactly.
And the one's I've seen, when they crash, they crash HARD. Also, I have pulled conventionally-configured drives, placed on USB dock and either repaired sectors and restored operation to the PC or backed up valuable data for restoration to a new drive.
I can share this once-in-a-lifetime experience too on RAID devices. So we're standing with 3 engineers in front of this 16 rows times 16 scsi disks, leds flickering on all of them. You had green leds, red leds and white ones. One of the disks on the 3rd array was toasted. But numbering wasn't high priority, but luckily, you had this fancy feature called "disk locator": software wise you could lid the white led! Easy peasy, right? So this engineer fires up the sequence, white led goes on. And he pulls out the disk next to it. Within 3 seconds, the datacenter door flies open: panic! Systems went down! Seems that the white led locator indicates the disk at the right hand side, not the left hand side. Bummer.
Lessons learned:
- RAID protects against 1 failing disk in any case
- RAID can protect more disks (if you add more "spare" devices) - eg RAID 5 with 1 spare requires 4 disks, however you can miss 2. But do not pull out the wrong ones
- do NOT pull out disks you don't know the status of
- read the f*** manual before going rogue on your hardware
Anyhow, with stories like above, you learn not to be the ones pulling strings
Lessons learned:
- RAID protects against 1 failing disk in any case
- RAID can protect more disks (if you add more "spare" devices) - eg RAID 5 with 1 spare requires 4 disks, however you can miss 2. But do not pull out the wrong ones
- do NOT pull out disks you don't know the status of
- read the f*** manual before going rogue on your hardware
Anyhow, with stories like above, you learn not to be the ones pulling strings
IMO, the more complicated anything is, the more likely it is to fail. It's also more difficult to troubleshoot, repair and get back running / online.
Maybe it's my age, but I am a strict subscriber to the "K.I.S.S." principle of design and implementation.
That's why you still see 107 year old Ford Model T's still running. You very likely won't see any 2018 Ford F-150's running 107 years from now (or any other 2018 makes, either!) .
Maybe it's my age, but I am a strict subscriber to the "K.I.S.S." principle of design and implementation.
That's why you still see 107 year old Ford Model T's still running. You very likely won't see any 2018 Ford F-150's running 107 years from now (or any other 2018 makes, either!) .
Age is something crazy, I was born with keyboard, nowadays kids can't even type (but swipe). I hate swiping. No finger works as designed. Must be me. lol
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Over the past 20-years I've run RAID 1 (2 mirrored SAS or SCSI drives with 1 single dedicated hot spare) exclusively at our business on all of my servers, and it's saved our ass multiple times. But (with regards to a RAID 1 configuration) that's been an expensive solution: 3 drives resulting in the capacity of 1 single drive. However -- and as @catcamstar mentioned -- it won't save your data with regards to malware or purposeful deletion, but it will save you in the event of catastrophic disk failure.
IMO RAID for surveillance data is not recommended...the data simply isn't that important...better to invest in more powerful processors and cameras.
IMO RAID for surveillance data is not recommended...the data simply isn't that important...better to invest in more powerful processors and cameras.
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I realize this is off topic, but I must say this: It gets worse.
Most, but not all, cannot write, do simple math in their head, speak proper English, count back change, and so on.
Their constant and sole means of social interaction and contact via social media, texts, e-mail, etc. will prove to be responsible for producing a generation unable to successfully communicate verbally with others, especially those of earlier generations and age groups. They don't pick up or properly interpret traditional means of face-to-face interaction such as facial expressions, body language, voice inflection, speech pauses, and other cues.
I think this will make their own personal relationships difficult to establish and maintain.
Most cannot use a knife to cut a steak either...but that's because their parents only fed them finger foods.
So if there's any young parents out there, listen up: Don't expect the world to raise up your children; it's in YOUR hands. And don't start raising them when they turn 6 or 8, 10 or 13... it's too late then. Start when their feet touch the ground. And good luck...you're going to need it because they'll be with their peers a lot more than they'll be with you. And when you turn 30, congrats...you're no longer just a parent in their eyes....you're a moron.
Happy 2019!
Q™
IPCT Contributor
But we're getting off-topic
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Thanks folk.
I'm new to IP security camera stuff but not too new to computer setup, etc. I've used RAID in the past, mainly striped, when I was going for speed and that sort of thing. These days I'm not so much in a hurry (and we have SSDs for boot drives and such)...just was thinking about the redundancy. As well, I understand and have myself argued that RAID is not backup.
On y'alls advice I decided use the two WD Purple drives in non-RAID / separate drives configuration.
Best,
Todd
I'm new to IP security camera stuff but not too new to computer setup, etc. I've used RAID in the past, mainly striped, when I was going for speed and that sort of thing. These days I'm not so much in a hurry (and we have SSDs for boot drives and such)...just was thinking about the redundancy. As well, I understand and have myself argued that RAID is not backup.
On y'alls advice I decided use the two WD Purple drives in non-RAID / separate drives configuration.
Best,
Todd
You're from MN and you're comin' back with a y'all ? I just know you're gonna have a great 2019, my man!