Is there any harm in buying cheap cameras on Alibaba or Aliexpress?

[hafizijaz]

Hi all!

I am working on a project for our workplace and I need about 50 more cameras. I have already purchased 35 cameras (Dahua IPC-HDW4433C-A) from eBay for around $50 each and they are perfect for our needs. I was checking around on Alibaba and found a bunch of sellers with some camera models which have no discussion online.

No Mic - 3mp IPC-HDW1325C - $20 per unit (plus shipping)
Metal enclosure, 6MP - IPC-HDW4636C-A - $41 per unit (plus shipping)

All cameras are isolated from the internet. I really only need the built-in video detection at most and playing around with the IVS settings also. Seller lists multi-language or English language. I am also using almost all cameras at 720p, 12-15fps so dont necessarily need 6mp. 2mp is fine.

I also trialed some Starlight cameras (I think I purchased some samples from Andy) and don't see any noticeable benefit for our use case.

I am just wondering if its worth it to buy bulk from china and use the cameras in our environment (indoor). Or should I just pay the extra cost and get it from reputable seller?

And I am also working on a project for a second location and can actually purchase 100 units at minimum.

 

[area651]

this is true for everything. It all depends on how much support you need and how much you trust that things will be sold as advertised.

you might not get what you expect and if you do, what then?

 

[mat200]

Hi all!

I am working on a project for our workplace and I need about 50 more cameras. I have already purchased 35 cameras (Dahua IPC-HDW4433C-A) from eBay for around $50 each and they are perfect for our needs. I was checking around on Alibaba and found a bunch of sellers with some camera models which have no discussion online.

No Mic - 3mp IPC-HDW1325C - $20 per unit (plus shipping)
Metal enclosure, 6MP - IPC-HDW4636C-A - $41 per unit (plus shipping)

All cameras are isolated from the internet. I really only need the built-in video detection at most and playing around with the IVS settings also. Seller lists multi-language or English language. I am also using almost all cameras at 720p, 12-15fps so dont necessarily need 6mp. 2mp is fine.

I also trialed some Starlight cameras (I think I purchased some samples from Andy) and don't see any noticeable benefit for our use case.

I am just wondering if its worth it to buy bulk from china and use the cameras in our environment (indoor). Or should I just pay the extra cost and get it from reputable seller?

And I am also working on a project for a second location and can actually purchase 100 units at minimum.

welcome @hafizijaz

FYI - we've covered China market camera's numerous times here on the forum.

Recommending reading the cliff notes, and searching the forum.

note: Are you 100% certain these will be kept isolated from the internet. ( i.e. not attached to a LAN that is connected to the net )

 

[hafizijaz]

welcome @hafizijaz

FYI - we've covered China market camera's numerous times here on the forum.

Recommending reading the cliff notes, and searching the forum.

note: Are you 100% certain these will be kept isolated from the internet. ( i.e. not attached to a LAN that is connected to the net )

Yes. Complete isolation using either the dual-nic method or corporate VLAN separation (depending on locations).

Thanks. I’ll look in to that.

And I understand the concept of getting what you pay for. But most of these aren’t highly critical locations and can survive some downtime if a camera breaks or stops working. And buying bulk means I can keep stock on hand for quick replacement.

 

[mat200]

Yes. Complete isolation using either the dual-nic method or corporate VLAN separation (depending on locations).

Thanks. I’ll look in to that.

And I understand the concept of getting what you pay for. But most of these aren’t highly critical locations and can survive some downtime if a camera breaks or stops working. And buying bulk means I can keep stock on hand for quick replacement.

"..dual-nic method or corporate VLAN separation .. "

So a software configuration setting is meant to keep them isolated?

Not certain if I would trust them that much.

I would have separate physical PoE switches. No ability for someone to jump into it and view the cameras from the LAN / WLAN. Just too many security holes imho on firmware you can not update.

 

[tigerwillow1]

I really only need the built-in video detection at most and playing around with the IVS settings also.

I'm curious how you're able to use IVS. I'm thinking the only way would be to use a chinese market Dahua NVR.

 

[hafizijaz]

this is true for everything. It all depends on how much support you need and how much you trust that things will be sold as advertised.

you might not get what you expect and if you do, what then?

If the money savings is worthwhile, I can deal with occasional hiccups.

"..dual-nic method or corporate VLAN separation .. "

So a software configuration setting is meant to keep them isolated?

Not certain if I would trust them that much.

I would have separate physical PoE switches. No ability for someone to jump into it and view the cameras from the LAN / WLAN. Just too many security holes imho on firmware you can not update.

I've setup VLAN on Unifi hardware and verified that they are completely and truly isolated. Only the BI machine has internet access. I have routine tests to make sure it stays that way. I am however looking into creating a physically separate system for the future project though.

I'm curious how you're able to use IVS. I'm thinking the only way would be to use a chinese market Dahua NVR.

The cameras I purchased from eBay have the IVS enabled. I haven't yet used it for triggers as the plain video detection model works OK for now. I am going to see if the IVS can make it so that lights going on/off triggers can be avoided.

 

[tigerwillow1]

I'm a bit less than 100% positive, so the following is subject to correction. If you're going to use an nvr (including BI), IVS is useless without a Dahua NVR. A Dahua NVR that isn't specifically built for the chinese market will reject chinese market cameras (exception is if running fairly old firmware). Therefore, you're running the risk of loading up on chinese market cameras and finding out later you can't use their IVS functions. If you've already figured out how to get around this, I'd appreciate knowing the solution.

 

[hafizijaz]

I'm a bit less than 100% positive, so the following is subject to correction. If you're going to use an nvr (including BI), IVS is useless without a Dahua NVR. A Dahua NVR that isn't specifically built for the chinese market will reject chinese market cameras (exception is if running fairly old firmware). Therefore, you're running the risk of loading up on chinese market cameras and finding out later you can't use their IVS functions. If you've already figured out how to get around this, I'd appreciate knowing the solution.

Sorry, what do you mean by IVS functionality? I was able to setup IVS tripwire on the one of the cameras I purchased on eBay, and BI is set to trigger recording using the cameras on-board trigger. Seems to be working for now.

 

[VorlonFrog]

The biggest problem with Chinese market cameras is their firmware. Vendors hack English-language firmware onto the camera, but you cannot update/upgrade that firmware. If you do, it returns to Chinese language, or it bricks the camera. Definitely not worth the trouble.

 

[hafizijaz]

The biggest problem with Chinese market cameras is their firmware. Vendors hack English-language firmware onto the camera, but you cannot update/upgrade that firmware. If you do, it returns to Chinese language, or it bricks the camera. Definitely not worth the trouble.

I've honestly never updated my cameras so far and as long as they provide the basic functionality they come with, I don't see the need to. Like I said above, I am willing to deal with these if they savings ends up being significant.

In any case, I was specifically searching the forum for Alibaba, but searching for China brings up the threads mentioned earlier.

Thank you to all who replied.

 

[VorlonFrog]

I've honestly never updated my cameras so far and as long as they provide the basic functionality they come with, I don't see the need to. Like I said above, I am willing to deal with these if they savings ends up being significant.

In any case, I was specifically searching the forum for Alibaba, but searching for China brings up the threads mentioned earlier.

Thank you to all who replied.

Understand your reasoning, just wanted to be certain you were fully informed.
I guarantee you, sometime, somewhere, in the very near future, some person will say "let's update the firmware" and then it's all downhill from there.

 

[hafizijaz]

Understand your reasoning, just wanted to be certain you were fully informed.
I guarantee you, sometime, somewhere, in the very near future, some person will say "let's update the firmware" and then it's all downhill from there.

Yup, I understand. Thank you.

 

[tigerwillow1]

I've read that BI isn't able to detect IVS triggers. Is that incorrect?

 

[hafizijaz]

I've read that BI isn't able to detect IVS triggers. Is that incorrect?

Seems to be camera dependent. But the one's I'm using (IPC-HDW4433C-A) is able to send triggers (video detection and IVS) that BI can accept.

I also purchased DH-IPC-HDBW11A0EN from B&H Photo for $20 each, and BI is unable to trigger recording using their on-board detection triggers.

 

[bradner]

I've read that BI isn't able to detect IVS triggers. Is that incorrect?

Yes, incorrect.

Using IVS rules in BI for PTZ Camera

 

[tigerwillow1]

May I ask how you set up the BI camera and trigger configurations for IVS triggers to get picked up? I've tried and failed doing this.

 

[bradner]

May I ask how you set up the BI camera and trigger configurations for IVS triggers to get picked up? I've tried and failed doing this.

I followed the above and it *seems* to be working on my Dahua.

 

[hafizijaz]

May I ask how you set up the BI camera and trigger configurations for IVS triggers to get picked up? I've tried and failed doing this.

Like I said, from the 3 types of camera I have, 1 is unable to send a trigger to BI. So it seems to be camera dependent.

 

[tigerwillow1]

I really appreciate all of the info from this thread. I'm a long time dahua NVR user and am trying out BI in parallel. I tried triggering BI with IVS from 2 different camera models, including a lot of experimenting with settings, with no luck. With my expectation for BI having been set so high I have to say I'm so far disappointed. Despite all of its bugs and lousy documentation, there are a few things the NVR does that BI doesn't, that I really don't want to give up. I can see how the BI motion detection zones could be set up to work really well, but it's so much easier with IVS to just draw a line and you're done. I have no doubt that some of my disappointment with BI is just new user ignorance, but I'm finding its learning curve to be a lot steeper than with the NVR. I'll continue to test and tinker with the 12 days left on my trial period.