Help with Camera Choice and Placement.

[jagsta21]

Hello IpCamtalk
I'm looking at getting some cameras probably one to start with and the rest over the coming months. I'm planning on running Xprotect Essential+ or blue iris haven't fully decided yet. I have a vlan with no internet access already setup. I have a vivint doorbell camera already.
I'm thinking about 4 cameras (open to suggestions) the first camera I'm looking at is: IPC-T5442T-ZE from Andy. wanting to place over the garage in the middle, but not sure if it would be better on the left side under the eave. across the front of the house on either side of the garage, both sides of the entry near front door and the other corner of the house is led lighting that comes on under the eaves at dark. I'm tempted to get the cameras with the led light for the back yard.
sorry for the terrible picture. Orange is the general outline of the house White is the back fence in the backyard (no lighting besides a light on back porch that is off most of the time. Across the alley goes up a bit if that matters. the neighbors houses are pretty close Green line is front/side yard about the same distance on the sides to the neighbors house. I'm not sure about cameras facing down the side of the house due to the proximity of neighbors houses/windows (don't want to deal with upset neighbors lol)
Thanks, Jag

 

[Sphinxicus]

Hello IpCamtalk
I'm looking at getting some cameras probably one to start with and the rest over the coming months. I'm planning on running Xprotect Essential+ or blue iris haven't fully decided yet.

This, IMO is the correct approach. 1 good varifocal and use it to test the locations you think you want to mount your cameras. You will probably find that some other locations actually get a better view by doing so. Best to find this out at an early stage! The 5442 varifocal is a great cam to start with (I have one of these). If you mount it on a temp mount (i clamped a 2x4 to a ladder and mounted to that for most of my locations) and do plenty of walk tests throught the day and at night, you can use the focal length calculator to figure out the fixed lens equivilent of the varifocals (which in my experience offer superior low light performance and save a few ££/$$/€€ at the same time).

I'm thinking about 4 cameras (open to suggestions) the first camera I'm looking at is: IPC-T5442T-ZE from Andy. wanting to place over the garage in the middle, but not sure if it would be better on the left side under the eave. across the front of the house on either side of the garage, both sides of the entry near front door and the other corner of the house is led lighting that comes on under the eaves at dark.

You say 4 cameras now but believe me, you will want/need more if you want anything more than overview cameras. Believe me, i started out with 4 in mind. I'm up to 11 now and im still finding areas where i could add another.

I'm tempted to get the cameras with the led light for the back yard.

Personally i don't like the cams with the white LED lights. The coverage that they provide is such a small area that the camera ends up seeing less than it would without the LED's on. I tested a HK colourVU for some time with these lights and with them on, the camera will expose for the bright white light in the foreground leaving everything else black. Of course this is fine if you only care about what is near the camera.

Orange is the general outline of the house White is the back fence in the backyard (no lighting besides a light on back porch that is off most of the time. Across the alley goes up a bit if that matters. the neighbors houses are pretty close Green line is front/side yard about the same distance on the sides to the neighbors house. I'm not sure about cameras facing down the side of the house due to the proximity of neighbors houses/windows (don't want to deal with upset neighbors lol)
Thanks, Jag

As i said above, test with your single cam first. Understand its limitations. Define what you want to see (overview - no details / zoomed in - lots of details). Look for choke points on your property (gates/narrow areas) where people are forced to walk through. You can zoom in on these areas with a high probability of getting a nice detailed face shot. A camera down the side of your neighbours house can be rotated into portrait mode to give a "slimmer" view with more "height" therefore seeing less of the neighbours house. Also, dont make the mistake of mounting the cameras way up high. While the missus may want you to do so because it "looks better", you waill be dissapointed with the footage you capture if you are looking to identify anyone on your property.

 

[wittaj]

^+1 on above.

Great idea only buying one varifocal to test out locations!

As pointed out, do not chase marketing terms like Full Color.

Do not be sold by some trademarked night color vision (Full Color, ColorVu, Starlight, etc.) that is a marketing ploy in a lot of ways lol. It is simply what a manufacturer wants to claim for low-light performance, but there are so many games that can be played even with the how they report the spec numbers. They will claim a low lux of 0.001 for example, but then that is with a wide open iris and a shutter at 1/3 second and an f1.0 - as soon as you have motion in it, it will be crap. You need a shutter of at minimum 1/60 second to reduce a lot of blur from someone walking.

In most instances, you want to get a camera that will perform at your location for the worse situation, which for most of us is at night when it is dark and there is little to no light. If a camera performs at night, it is easier to tweak settings to make it work during the day than it is the other way around.

All cameras need light. Simple physics.

The current king of the full color type camera is the Color 4K/X camera or the dual lens fusion camera and would be the only ones I would recommend.

I have a few other Full Color type cameras and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and it actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location. But without some light, a camera with IR capability is the safer bet.

Once you take these cameras off of auto/default settings (unless you like ghost and blur) Just remember that every increase in shutter speed needs more light. So I can set mine to 1/250 second and eliminate blur at night, but then all that is visible is a 5 foot diameter around the camera IF I have enough light.

If your camera doesn't have enough light, a 24/7 full color camera will not be of much good and now you have a camera with no IR and even if you added external IR, the camera will not see it since it does not have an IR filter. Unless you have stadium quality light, go with a camera that has IR capabilities or go with the 4K/X camera.

 

[sebastiantombs]

If you park a car in the driveway in front of the garage you will need two cameras, one on each side to provide good shots of both sides of the car and potential problem people. The front door needs two cameras, one for face captures of visitors, doorbell or dedicated turret style, and one to watch the package drop area. Another on the far right side to provide overlapping coverage and provide a view of the approaches to all the other cameras as well.

Do not get caught in the trap of "I can watch my whole yard with one or two cameras". Yes, you can watch your whole yard that way but you can't identify anyone, positively identify for evidentiary purposes, anyone at all. Providing that kind of identification, evidentiary, is the goal of a surveillance system.

I have six cameras covering the front of the house that are mounted on the house or the gate post of the driveway plus another two watching the lower driveway and yard. Even with all of them it is difficult to get positive ID in every area or under every circumstance. I started with two and found out that was nowhere nearly enough to be useable in the real world.

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.

Compiled by mat200 -

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Keep in mind that it may take two cameras, or more, to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

These charts are approximations only and represent the "best case" scenario where the camera is mounted low enough, generally at seven feet or less, and the subject is looking directly at the camera.

 

[looney2ns]

On a real computer, study this: Cliff Notes as well.