Installation project, your advice requested!

[wcrowder]

Again, this does not help me any nor provide any advice to my original request for assistance.

Where did I say I had all the answers myself? I obviously came here looking for assistance in checking to see if there was anything I left off my list to buy to complete my installation.

Instead, I come here and get told my HD-TVI proposal is trash and to go with IP, from 3 different people while all still failing to answer my original question "was there anything on my list of items that I needed to add" because I didn't want to get caught on the job without something and then be delayed.

Quit trying to force an IP system on somebody who doesn't want it. Thank you.

Ok, maybe I can help. DO NOT RUN COAX, you would be better off running CAT6 and using baluns and analog cameras then what you have planed. That way the guy that replaces you has something to work with... Sorry, but that's where you are at....

 

[inforlonghaul]

Seriously...baluns and using analog cameras? That's a little ridiculous there. While HD-TVI is not IP, it's still High Definition.

Amazon? Already tried that route and not a fan of the quality.

 

[wcrowder]

Seriously...baluns and using analog cameras? That's a little ridiculous there. While HD-TVI is not IP, it's still High Definition.

Amazon? Already tried that route and not a fan of the quality.

It's coax, coax is dead... What happens when your customer wants an upgrade? HD-TVI and variants was dead when it started. Learn some networking, surveillance would probably run over their existing infrastructure without the wire pulls. Sound like to me you "inforshorthaul"...

 

[inforlonghaul]

It's coax, coax is dead... What happens when your customer wants an upgrade? HD-TVI and variants was dead when it started. Learn some networking, surveillance would probably run over their existing infrastructure without the wire pulls. Sound like to me you "inforshorthaul"...

That's the thing...upgrade. Upgrade to what? I mean, 1080p is 1080p regardless of whether or not its IP or Coax. At one time, I'm pretty certain everybody though coax would never support High Definition cameras. But they do. Who's to say that coax one day couldn't support 4k?

 

[fenderman]

That's the thing...upgrade. Upgrade to what? I mean, 1080p is 1080p regardless of whether or not its IP or Coax. At one time, I'm pretty certain everybody though coax would never support High Definition cameras. But they do. Who's to say that coax one day couldn't support 4k?

You are missing the true benefit of ip cameras. Let me list a few.
1) You dont need to homerun each camera to the NVR. This allows you to easily hide the NVR and can save LOTS of labor time and cost.
2) You can use a second NVR hidden somewhere on the network.
3) IP cameras can be had with SD card slots as additional backup.
4) Lots more camera options
5) use of advanced motion detection like line crossing to avoid false alerts. I believe line crossing is only supported on 1-2 analog cameras on most of hikvisions TVI systems.
Most importantly if you dont like the NVR for whatever reason (lack of features for example) you can easily move over to a pc based vms..with TVI cameras you are stuck with basically the same NVRs.
Finally, there is NO benefit to TVI, except for price, but your budget allows for a full ip system, so why not.

 

[wcrowder]

That's the thing...upgrade. Upgrade to what? I mean, 1080p is 1080p regardless of whether or not its IP or Coax. At one time, I'm pretty certain everybody though coax would never support High Definition cameras. But they do. Who's to say that coax one day couldn't support 4k?

Old cat 5E supports 20mp cameras, mathematically coax does but it's specialty equipment that nobody uses or ever did... Sounds like your in business, bet the place has networking already ran. Not regulated, Cheaper... Vlan's. You are really going to pull new wire? Your customer is an idiot for paying you... Now don't get me wrong, if he has analog in place, you can reuse those to with encoders. It's a natural progression...

 

[Burbo]

Your list looks good I would figure in a decent 1080P dedicated monitor. I would also add a handheld monitor(tool you get to keep) to get the camera aim close. They make them in TVI. Don't let everyone shoot you down on TVI. I just converted 8 locations from old analog to TVI. It is a quantum leap in clarity. Plus you can store tons of video for very few terabytes. I found the compression connectors to be the most difficult to install but offered the best picture. A few caveats on the TVI, if you have a hazy picture that does not clear up by trying another camera, it is probably your bnc connection. You do not need a crimper for twist on bnc. Good luck on your install.

 

[inforlonghaul]

Old cat 5E supports 20mp cameras, mathematically coax does but it's specialty equipment that nobody uses or ever did... Sounds like your in business, bet the place has networking already ran. Not regulated, Cheaper... Vlan's. You are really going to pull new wire? Your customer is an idiot for paying you... Now don't get me wrong, if he has analog in place, you can reuse those to with encoders. It's a natural progression...

This a 50 year old farmer wanting to put a camera system in his farm shop/office to monitor his tractor equipment and farm hands....so no, no networking is available whatsoever, except for the office. Please don't assume details about my installation. By the way, the customer is a family friend, so how about you not call him an idiot. The least of his concerns is the battle over TVI and IP.

 

[inforlonghaul]

Your list looks good I would figure in a decent 1080P dedicated monitor. I would also add a handheld monitor(tool you get to keep) to get the camera aim close. They make them in TVI. Don't let everyone shoot you down on TVI. I just converted 8 locations from old analog to TVI. It is a quantum leap in clarity. Plus you can store tons of video for very few terabytes. I found the compression connectors to be the most difficult to install but offered the best picture. A few caveats on the TVI, if you have a hazy picture that does not clear up by trying another camera, it is probably your bnc connection. You do not need a crimper for twist on bnc. Good luck on your install.

Thank you for checking out my list and your tips. I'll have to look into that hand held monitor tool. I think we're covered on the TV fortunately.

 

[wcrowder]

This a 50 year old farmer wanting to put a camera system in his farm shop/office to monitor his tractor equipment and farm hands....so no, no networking is available whatsoever, except for the office. Please don't assume details about my installation. By the way, the customer is a family friend, so how about you not call him an idiot. The least of his concerns is the battle over TVI and IP.

I can agree. Because I AM A 50 year old "Full Time" farmer, who has a part time job (50 hours a week) managing a very large surveillance network. Did you know you can't by Pelco Mini-Spectras anymore? Some Vegas folks are having a heart attack. I understand, but with the budget you set forth in an earlier post you could do this the right way... Because of my experience I know where my cows are even while I'm at work on my part time job. If you don't know what you are doing, point that 50yr old farmer towards someone who does. Coax is dead just like the Tube TV. Your hanging on...

 

[wcrowder]

Your list looks good I would figure in a decent 1080P dedicated monitor. I would also add a handheld monitor(tool you get to keep) to get the camera aim close. They make them in TVI. Don't let everyone shoot you down on TVI. I just converted 8 locations from old analog to TVI. It is a quantum leap in clarity. Plus you can store tons of video for very few terabytes. I found the compression connectors to be the most difficult to install but offered the best picture. A few caveats on the TVI, if you have a hazy picture that does not clear up by trying another camera, it is probably your bnc connection. You do not need a crimper for twist on bnc. Good luck on your install.

TVI, HD CVI are designed so that large installations with existing wiring can temporarily upgrade to 1080p video. You guys are really putting this in? I can understand the guy at Best Buy buying this for his house. But you're really selling this as new? You are "selling snake oil". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil

 

[spyfly81]

So @wcrowder @fenderman @Q2U, today I look at a project where they have a current specco tech system that is analog they resolution on their cameras are 352x240(cif) and I will be quoting them for HD-TVI and an IP system, I have told them already the pros and cons of each and suggested to them if it was my system I would go with an IP based system as they have a 2nd building across the street they just bought as well.

so my question if this was your client would you push an IP system harder or just let them settle for an HD-TVI system?

 

[wcrowder]

So @wcrowder @fenderman @Q2U, today I look at a project where they have a current specco tech system that is analog they resolution on their cameras are 352x240(cif) and I will be quoting them for HD-TVI and an IP system, I have told them already the pros and cons of each and suggested to them if it was my system I would go with an IP based system as they have a 2nd building across the street they just bought as well.

so my question if this was your client would you push an IP system harder or just let them settle for an HD-TVI system?

IP because you can use there existing networking. Sell them on the extensibility of IP also easier upgrades when needed by using existing infrastructure. Adding a new camera is as simple as adding a new Voip phone on a desk.

If you can't sell them on Blue Iris; Qnap makes some reasonably priced "rack" or "Desktop" NVR's that would fill the need well. http://www.qnapsecurity.com/n/en/

 

[spyfly81]

IP because you can use there existing networking. Sell them on the extensibility of IP also easier upgrades when needed by using existing infrastructure. Adding a new camera is as simple as adding a new Voip phone on a desk.

If you can't sell them on Blue Iris; Qnap makes some reasonably priced "rack" or "Desktop" NVR's that would fill the need well. http://www.qnapsecurity.com/n/en/

Everything right now is coax cable, but I think I have sold him on IP, just makes more sense for down the road... Not sure on Blue Iris yet the, kinda watching to see what happens with the hardware acceleration, as the system will be going to 8 cameras from the current 6 that he has no, plus another building that will end up with 4 more cameras so it will be a 12 camera system. I know blue iris will handle it but not sure he needs all the features.

 

[wcrowder]

Everything right now is coax cable, but I think I have sold him on IP, just makes more sense for down the road... Not sure on Blue Iris yet the, kinda watching to see what happens with the hardware acceleration, as the system will be going to 8 cameras from the current 6 that he has no, plus another building that will end up with 4 more cameras so it will be a 12 camera system. I know blue iris will handle it but not sure he needs all the features.

Exactly, IP should be an easy sell with the second building coming online. He can use his existing network to carry the cameras and later if he needs higher rez he has that option to. Coax is dead...

 

[inforlonghaul]

Okay...I talked to the farm owner and he did settle with IP. I had to cut down from 10 cameras to 7 in order to get a price range he was happy with. But down the road he did want to leave the option open for further expansion. Ended up being about $1,800 + $500 for labor.

I still got him a 16 Channel NVR (Hikvision 7716NI-SP/16), with 6TB harddrive and 7 2MP Hikvision IP bullet cameras.

I spent about 8 hours Friday getting everything set up and installed but was only able to 4 cameras up and running, I'll have to get the remaining 3 cameras another day.

-----

Here's another issue that he needs addressed that I know without question is well outside my capabilities, but I need to know what to tell him so he can get a contractor to help with it.

He has a grain storage facility that's about 7 or 8 tenths of a mile away from his Shop that he wants to install cameras at too. Since his NVR is 16 channel, there should be plenty of room to add cameras to that NVR for that location. The issue is while there's electricity at the grain bins, there's no internet (obviously). And there's not really a good place to store a POE switch to keep it secure of the outside elements except a tiny non-insulated tin shed he has.

How would he be able to get cameras at that location and get them to work on his current NVR? Is it even feasible? I've heard it's not recommended trying to push High-Def cameras over a wireless network, but I don't know. So what's the recommended route that he needs to take to get this addressed?

 

[wcrowder]

Okay...I talked to the farm owner and he did settle with IP. I had to cut down from 10 cameras to 7 in order to get a price range he was happy with. But down the road he did want to leave the option open for further expansion. Ended up being about $1,800 + $500 for labor.

I still got him a 16 Channel NVR (Hikvision 7716NI-SP/16), with 6TB harddrive and 7 2MP Hikvision IP bullet cameras.

I spent about 8 hours Friday getting everything set up and installed but was only able to 4 cameras up and running, I'll have to get the remaining 3 cameras another day.

-----

Here's another issue that he needs addressed that I know without question is well outside my capabilities, but I need to know what to tell him so he can get a contractor to help with it.

He has a grain storage facility that's about 7 or 8 tenths of a mile away from his Shop that he wants to install cameras at too. Since his NVR is 16 channel, there should be plenty of room to add cameras to that NVR for that location. The issue is while there's electricity at the grain bins, there's no internet (obviously). And there's not really a good place to store a POE switch to keep it secure of the outside elements except a tiny non-insulated tin shed he has.

How would he be able to get cameras at that location and get them to work on his current NVR? Is it even feasible? I've heard it's not recommended trying to push High-Def cameras over a wireless network, but I don't know. So what's the recommended route that he needs to take to get this addressed?

2 of these bridges, and a Ubiquiti ToughSwitch. And as an added "Selling Point" if he wants he can add an access point at the location using the same bridge and switch and add internet at the Grain Bin area for another $80.00. I've seen this done. This equipment is designed for this kind of job, the switch is designed to take temp/humidity as long as it's kept dry. At 1 mile you might have to turn the power down on bridge to get the best signal... These will work effectively at 4 miles with an unobstructed view... This IS WITHIN your Capabilities! If you need help, I believe there a several of us on here who have worked with this.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ue&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_5&smid=A382BEY29W0YA9

http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Netw...49932517&sr=8-2&keywords=ubiquiti+toughswitch

http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Pico...449932545&sr=8-3&keywords=ubiquiti+Outdoor+ap

 

[spyfly81]

I have about 100 of these deployed and love them, have over 300 ubiquiti devices deployed for my wisp i own

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[wcrowder]

I have about 100 of these deployed and love them, have over 300 ubiquiti devices deployed for my wisp i own

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Trust me, they work just as good for IP Cameras in remote locations. There like pulling 2 miles of fiber, rock solid...

 

[spyfly81]

Trust me, they work just as good for IP Cameras in remote locations. There like pulling 2 miles of fiber, rock solid...

The airfibers are even more fun

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