Backyard trees and darkness

[Michael11]

I won't @ em, as I'm sure he's busy, but big thanks to bigredfish for pushing me over the edge to order a 5442 to begin testing locations.

I lost my forums username and password but was a member and read all the wikis a few years back (no I don't remember it all, and I know stuff changes).

The boss told me to stay on the soffit and I can put a pole behind the screen enclosure. The back soffit is 12 feet high (out of recommended face capturing height). The horizontal support beam near the top of my screen enclosure is 9 feet above the pavers. Everything else is downhill towards the back to the canal. The oak tree is 25' back, it's 75' to the middle of the "road", and the canal is 108' from the screen enclosure. We have issues with cars, dirt bikes, and pedestrians back there. It's only supposed to be used to take care of the canal and the electric poles but enforcing that is a long story for a different forum.

In a perfect world, I'd like to be able at some point to get faces/license plates. In reality, I think I'll be limited to an overview of what's going on back there (camera looking towards tree trucks and under the main leaves) and only possible identification if someone intrudes on my property. This last approach is fine, as the flood lights don't reach that far back and you can't see through the screen even with a flashlight. It seems silly, I'm more worried about someone being out there then someone trying to get in.

I can put a camera on the right-side soffit, but the left side is mostly taken by a flood light. I thought a pole behind the screen enclosure with 2.8mm lens would provide a glance to see if anyone is back there before letting the dogs out (people, bobcats, coyotes). The left side has a flood light near the end of the soffit, so I was going to experiment with a 3.6mm lens further back just to capture between the houses and the neighbor's thorny shrubs. Basically 3 cameras with one on the pole, 2 covering the sides of the house and the one on the pole covering the middle section. I assume you can always add more cameras to the pole. I'm not sure my HOA will let me get it higher than the trees.

The pictures are from the canal looking back towards the house. The trees are in the way I know.

My main question is about the pole diameter 1.25" sufficient? I should be able to use a bracket against the screen enclosure. I don't plan on going past the screen enclosure with anything.

Amazon.com: Channel Master Heavy Duty TV Antenna Mast Pole Stackable with Swedged End - 18 Gauge Galvanized Steel - 1.25 Inch Diameter - 5 Foot Long : Electronics

Secondary questions:
1) Anything like this that uses POE? Tendelux DI10 IR Illuminator, 10W Infrared Floodlight for Security Cam (thanks to bigredfish again). I just discovered POE lights, but can't find great information on them for residential use and it's so much easier to run cat6 then try to get electric over the cage.
2) My last camera setup used a NVR, I really mastered the software that had major limitations and was laggy. I was thinking of BI but the switch costs seem pretty crazy. I guess I could start with an 8-port switch then add another. Remote viewing is a plus, but I know it can't be connected to the internet

All the best,

Michael

 

[Rob2020]

Welcome back!

POE powered illuminators are available. One brand, AXTON is available from Bhphoto but they are pricey but high quality with great reviews and USA made.

It would help to know your budget and a used PC that meets Blue Iris specs is a good way to go. I would think the pole diameter is sufficient but I have never used a pole mount so I will let someone else address that question.

Make sure you refresh your memory by reading the Cliff Notes located in the Wiki.

 

[Mike A.]

You can also use a splitter to break out the power from POE to the Tendelux. I use the TP-Link splitters to do that but they're not weatherproof and need to be protected in some way. With standard POE you may be pushing the limit of power available per port with the illuminator and cam on the same run depending on power draw by the camera. Better to use POE+. Lots of relatively inexpensive POE/POE+ switches available.

Haven't mounted to a pole either. I guess it depends on how well you anchor it. Most of the pole mounts are made for larger diameter poles (like 2X what you're looking at) but you probably could replace the clamp with another or rig something else to work.

Rather than trying to get over the trees, maybe try under. What I've used for a few similar locations where I needed a cam mounted off of the house are 4x4" post sleeves like below. Being hollow inside lets you hide cable and connections, splitters, etc.

Search Results for post sleeve at The Home Depot

Search Results for post sleeve at The Home Depot

www.homedepot.com

 

[Rob2020]

A 4 x 4 pressure treated post is another idea, bonus points for a faux bird house to hide the camera.

 

[bigredfish]

 

[Michael11]

Thank you for the responses,

Rob, appreciate the link to the cliff notes and the POE IR company. My problem is I think too much and never move forward!

Mike, I love your solution for the pole! And the splitter is a great idea but I'm in Florida so rain is an issue, so I need to think about the IR lights. I'm probably best off getting the cameras up then determining if extra light is needed. I will definitely put the camera at that height and see what views I get. The camera is definitely going to be visible and within vandalism reach but oh well. I just don't want to dig to put the wire in hahaha

My budget is to get it going right the first time, I'm thinking if I'm around $2,000USD at the end of the day I'm good even at 6-8 cameras. I don't need much in the front due to the layout of my house and I have impact windows plus an alarm system...plus a whole house generator. I have an old laptop available, quad core, 16gigs of ram, Nvidia graphics card, I was going to start with BI and see how it performed.

The scariest part is the poe switch as technology has changed so much, I was attempting to get a 24 port switch for more flexibility, especially if the landscaping lights get better priced (can turn them into Christmas themed and get bonus points from the boss!). I figure POE will be cheaper than hiring an electrician to run 110v. I already have so many IOTs connected such as Sonos, garage door openers, Rokus, Nest Front Door Cam, Nest thermostat, phones, tablets, et al on wifi. I'm on AT&T fiber, their router does block traffic, but I don't have much control over their settings.

My IT friend read the forum on security and said that's probably more money than you're going to want to spend.

 

[Michael11]

There is Bigredfish! Nice bird house. Okay, so I got some ideas to research while the camera is on its way. Next weekend I should have some mounting locations picked out.

 

[Michael11]

NM, I just found a dual nic setup thread. Seems fairly straighforward.

 

[Sybertiger]

Here's some pics of a couple of 5442 cams mounted on pressure treated 4x4. A shallow narrow channel was cut on the backside of the posts to stick the Cat6 into it. I put caulk into the channel first then stuck the Cat6 in then used a putty knife to smooth the caulk over the channel then painted the posts. The channel should be cut just wide and deep enough to accommodate the Cat6 which should be direct burial type. Ideally, the Cat6 will stay in the channel when pressed in by your thumb.

Newly installed cams and Blue Iris system

I did a new Blue Iris installation for my parents recently. It's a start and probably needs 3 more cams to provide adequate coverage. BI server is an i5-8500 Dell Optiplex. Currently have Deepstack server installed and have OpenVPN setup so I can tweak it remotely from 500 miles away. Ran 500...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Sybertiger]

Keep in mind that IR lights can wreak havoc when you have nearby objects (trees). It causes an overexposure effect. Of course WDR in the cam settings can help but you risk lighting up your nearby trees rather than it lighting up just the background areas you want. It's too bad most IR lights don't have an manual adjustment for intensity.

If you are putting a pole in the ground then I really like the idea of a PTZ plus one cam as a spotter. I just installed a PTZ but didn't have the luxury of a pole to mount it higher. I was really impressed with it's ability to see in the very dark situation I have in my backyard. You can check it out with the following link.

New PTZ installation

I finally got around to installing a new Dahua SD49425XB-HNR I recently purchased from Andy. Nothing earth shattering and a relatively easy install especially since with cold weather the attic was nice and cool. I mounted it as high as I could (lens is only 8 feet off the ground) but there's...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Michael11]

I'm leaning towards the 4x4 option. I've been trying to find a switch on ebay and used desktop computer on amazon (my old laptop has one ethernet port, and a 256gig SSD). Then I was searching for cable I can bury.

If I mount any higher then I have trees in the way and I don't see the PTZ being able to capture a great picture trying to track through everything. Yeah, it would be great to get a tall pole and get some license plates and folks walking around back there but I don't see a good option. It is supposed to be no trespassing, but they don't enforce it because the county doesn't own it, which is my issue.

Hey Sybertiger, you're in Orlando I'm about 1 hour and 45 minutes south come on down

 

[Sybertiger]

I would definitely have a PTZ on a high pole if people are walking around in the back without authorization.

 

[samplenhold]

A few points to make:

You can start off with an 8 port POE switch. No need to get a big one to begin with. I believe that having more than one can be a good thing as you have some semblance of redundancy. I have four POE switches and have divided up cams such that areas with multiple cams, like front door, driveway, and LPR are divided up between those switches. If a switch goes out, I still have some coverage at that position.

Cam height for being able to get a good face shot is not set in stone. It really depends on how far away you have the cam focused. It is more a function of the angle of attack. See the figure below:



Here is a POE powered IR emitter:
AXTON Nano AT-5ME-A 250'-Range Compact PoE AT-5ME-A.5MEA382010 (bhphotovideo.com)

Here is my post on LPR, including a box for the cams:

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

Lots of folks buy their BI computers on eBay. That seems to be the lowest cost for refurbished office systems.

 

[Sybertiger]

Very smart ^^^^ regarding the switches if I do say myself!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0899CMJ14/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A1OPW67DDHGBPR&psc=1

 

[Rob2020]

Dell Outlet is another good place to find computers.

 

[Michael11]

I got the 5442 in a 3.6mm lens and was able to test viewing angles today with my neighbor's help. I'm still waiting on a part for the computer to set it all up. Then I just need to order the cameras and install them. The backyard needs some thought, so I'll post everything then post what I figured out thus far. The lens protector is on!

Red dots are side views to capture anyone going between houses. A 2.8mm lens is going to be too wide.
-If I go closer to the front of the house there are trees that are in the way or will be in a few years.

Blue dots are front views (okay I noticed I made the pool blue too)
-Not thrilled with these. #6 is very high, and yes it can be pointed down more by will just give an overview. #7 has trees on either side.
-Pool shot gets the back porch but is mostly for use to watch the kids, so a 5442 might be too much.

Orange dots are back views
-Camera 9 is 9 feet+ high and covered by camera 8 (camera 8 has about 3 spots it can go. I picked the best I have at the moment).

I will post again here with other views of the back, as that's the problem area.

 

[looney2ns]

Get the walls out of view, they will cause IR reflection that will mess with your cameras exposure.
You might also consider corridor mode on the cams between the houses.

 

[Michael11]

Okay here is the back. The issue is covering the width between the trees. I can attach cameras lower to the screen enclosure (files marked by low) and probably get a 2.8mm lens instead of the 3.6mm but then I really have to worry about the cameras' safety or use a less expensive camera and hope they don't wear a mask. I know it's my choice, I'm just throwing it here to help me think and someone usually has a great idea. The screen enclosure is black and the 5442 is white. I can buy a 6 foot white fence post for about $30 but is that really anymore discrete than the camera being mounted on the screen? Rhetorical

Position 21, camera 1st post sideways are both covered by side camera #3 although at some distance. This side view is also crossed with camera #9. It doesn't seem to capture more than camera #9 on the other side. So this might be a no.

The rest are really just the camera pointed back at 9 feet high and 2-3 feet high. The lower views are great but can be hit by sprinklers, humans, and animals. The whole project started as someone was back there, not that I really need a picture of them because I can stay inside until they leave or call the police. I could just get something less expensive and in black but they'd have to be able to handle the weather like the 5442.

I will take the 5442 out there when it's dark to see how it looks.

I'm not sure which way I'm leaning. I can always get the cameras to cover the areas between the two side cameras on either side of the house and test it in the back first.

Posting has helped me think about it more.

 

[Sybertiger]

+1 on corridor mode between the houses. No need to look at walls or your neighbors' house.

 

[Michael11]

Get the walls out of view, they will cause IR reflection that will mess with your cameras exposure.
You might also consider corridor mode on the cams between the houses.

I appreciate that suggestion!

I'll try that when testing to see what happens. I know the window will be a problem but it's hard to make your neighbor stay on the ladder as you give directions left, right, no back left, up, no the other up. I was somewhat limited on time.

Every position is marked with blue tape so I can go back out again to see if I can get the walls out while still getting the gap between houses. I imagine BI can also black out the wall too but that's not ideal.