Backyard trees and darkness

Michael11

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TBH Michael, it kind of makes the system useless unless you have a zoomed camera that captures someone further out as per the post above on shallow angle of attack. I fully appreciate the sitution with "her indoors". The problem is with an over view you learn what has gone on, but are unable to get anyone caught for it due to the lack of a good facial capture. Ultimately without facial capture, CCTV becomes somewhat pointless as all you can say to the Sheriff is some stole my ..... and here's a pciture of his cap...or...here's pciture of his black hair...
I understand, my side views have been adjusted and zoomed in to capture faces. I'll have 7 cameras to get setup soon. They should get faces, except for the pool one that is for safety reason. I have a couple ideas for the backyard including a HNR with two spotters but I need to get started on the other areas. I can mount directly on the screen enclosure pointing downhill towards the canal - but at a lower point to mimic the sleeve or post.

My test pictures above were to attempt an apples-to-apples comparison. I did not have a way to determine how far I was zoomed in with the reolink. My wife did zoom on me to test, and thought she saved the file but didn't. Plus, I don't want to scare folks off this forum by posting pictures of myself :eek::rofl:
 

wittaj

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The RLC-822A has an optical zoom of 8mm, so not as far as the 12mm of the 5442-ZE.

But those of us that have been here awhile can tell you how the comparison between the 5442 and Reolink would go LOL.
 

Michael11

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The RLC-822A has an optical zoom of 8mm, so not as far as the 12mm of the 5442-ZE.

But those of us that have been here awhile can tell you how the comparison between the 5442 and Reolink would go LOL.
I understand and have read about the quality of the 5442s on the forum. However, before investing money into a complete system for good measure on my end I had to test against a competitor - myself. Trust but verify.
 

Michael11

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I haven't gone away, just ran the last set of wires for everything planned for the soffit. I have spray foam insulation, so the largest pain was getting the wire as it ended up behind the insulation somewhere. Lots of digging into it to find it and pull it through but no drag or catching on anything to the drop point so that's the only plus. I really only have one spot I might need to spray with a can but once the camera wire hole is sealed it should be good. My soffit is stucco, so putting all the camera tails up there then sealing it off.

Also, I found out my att router won't let me port forward nevermind supporting any VPN besides their $7 per month "VPN." So I'll worry about bypassing that later with the Asus router. But the computer is ready. I just need to buy BI.

I drilled a hole and ran a string through the hole next to the screen enclosure. I got cable ties (link below) to run black sprinkler piping around the enclosure with the ethernet cables inside. I can then use Ts and a J at the end. Makes it easier to adjust in the future. At least that's the current plan once the soffit cameras are running. Amazon.com: XHF 100 Pcs Cable Zip Tie Saddle Type Mounts Base with 100 Pcs 8" Cable Ties and 100 Pcs Tapping Screw, Wire Cable Clips Organizer Holders Clamps Black : Electronics

I searched through the forum and found some information on the SD49425XB-HNR (4mp, 1/2.8" sensor) vs the SD5A425GA-HNR (4mp, 1/1.8" sensor). I used the full names as maybe that's why I didn't find the answer I was looking for when searching for it. Besides the sensor size differences and size differences... Do they both function the same?

The SD49425XB-HNR has a smaller sensor, but I thought even if ran at 2mp it would still not be as efficient at night as the SD5A425GA-HNR at 4mp because it has a larger sensor than the SD49425XB-HNR. I thought I read that type of feedback on buying say the 4mp turret camera (not 5442) with a smaller sensor then running it at 2mp. Please correct me here or point me to where I can read about it - I understand the sensor vs mp comparison, it's mostly questioning running the 4mp at 2mp instead.

Lastly, I was going to place two 5442s on either side of the screen enclosure to capture the back as spotters then use the HNR to zoom in. Would the HNR be able to replace one of those spotters? Examples 1) 5442 spots a person, HNR looks at it. 2) HNR spots a person outside of 5442 view then it looks at it too***. I'm attempting to finalize the budget to see if I can skip a 5442 to save money or use those savings to upgrade to the SD5A425GA-HNR .... wish these came in black!

***I do have a 2nd 5442 that will see the HNR and some open space to the left of a tree, so might be able to use that as a spotter too. Its main purpose is to watch the screen door. I don't think that adds any useful information, but I already typed it...

Why do I have a feeling as soon as I'm done, the 4ks will come out and beat the 5442-ZEs!
 
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wittaj

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If you have the money, go with the SD5A425GA-HNR over the 49425.

Downrezing a 4MP camera to 2MP does provide comparable images to a native 2MP on the same size sensor - It is still using the 4 million pixels - the camera doesn't change the "pixel resolution screen" on the camera when you go from 4MP to 2MP. The sensor still needs 2 times the light going from 4MP to 2MP, so the native 2MP camera will result in a better image at night. The firmware will make some algorithm attempt at downrezing it, but it could be a complete crap image or a somewhat usable image, but if there is a concern that the 4MP isn't performing or wouldn't perform well at night, then it is better to go with the 2MP.

I have a 4MP and 2MP on the same 1/2.8" sensor and the picture quality is quite different between the two and the 2MP kicks it's butt at night.

In most instances, you want to get a camera that will perform at your location for the worse situation, which for most of us is at night when it is dark and there is little to no light. If a camera performs at night, it is easier to tweak settings to make it work during the day than it is the other way around.

My 2MP cameras outperform my neighbors 4K (8MP) cameras....why....because they are both on the same size sensor.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system but mine. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 8MP system provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night.

My neighbor tried the "I will just downrez the 8MP to 2MP" and the image was a soft dark mess.

His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from Andy here based on my recommendation and seeing my results. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras and he cannot figure out why downrezing from 8MP to 2MP doesn't work properly... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location and downrezing doesn't change the physics of the camera.


Here is a real world example from the 2MP 49225 PTZ and the 4MP 49425 PTZ that are both on the same size sensor.

The 49225 is a 2MP PTZ on the 1/2.8" sensor. It deems it has enough light at a 1/60 shutter so it stays in color:


2MP.jpg



Here is the 49425, which is the same camera as the 49225 except is a 4MP on the same 1/2.8" sensor as the 49225.

Here is the first big issue you see with a double the resolution on the same size sensor - It deems that it does not have enough light at a 1/60 shutter so it goes to B/W with Infrared:


4MP.jpg



The first thing you notice is that downrezing the 4MP 49425 down to a 2MP doesn't result in the camera being able to run color like the native 2MP 49225 as the sensor still doesn't see enough light to run in color because the 4MP "pixel screen" simply isn't letting enough light get into the optics of the sensor.

That is a big deal with low light conditions and why you want to go with a native resolution and preferably a camera on the ideal MP/sensor ratio that is talked about here often. The native resolution may be able to be in color, but the higher resolution on the same size sensor probably won't with low light conditions.

Then in this case, you can see that the 4MP was struggling to even give definition compared to the 2MP. It is wet out so the rain reflections is wreaking havoc with the infrared and focus.

So when I downrezed but kept the bitrate the same, it still looks like a soft mess. Even if there is less noise in this instance, it still doesn't look as good as the native.


4MP downrez 2MP.jpg



As always YMMV and I am sure the newer cameras are improved over when this camera came out, but even so I don't think we see a higher MP downrez come close to the performance of a native MP on the same size sensor because the higher MP just isn't letting enough light into the optics as the lower MP on the same size sensor.

And the less light that is available, the bigger the difference one will see. Personally, for me the difference between being able to run it in color versus B/W is enough of a reason to go with the the camera that is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio talked about here so much.
 

Michael11

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That makes complete sense and what I thought was the case. I'm glad I double checked. I do not see a 2mp HNR sold by Andy atm so I'd go with the more expensive 4mp with the larger sensor. However, I need to think about it more.

When I tested the 5442s in the back they were b/w but I did not mess with any of the settings.

My neighbor across the street paid an electrician to install power outlets for his wireless cameras. He is still working on them as the wifi keeps cutting out lol I can't help but laugh.
 

wittaj

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Yeah unfortunately Andy was the only one that still had the 2MP 49225 with autotracking still available, but he sold the last ones off a few months ago.

You can still find the 49225 on Aliexpress and other places, but it will not have autotracking and is a newer chipset that will not accept the autotrack firmware (someone here tried it and it wouldn't accept it).

But like I said, if you can afford the 4MP on the 1/1.8" sensor, it will outperform the 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor. Especially since you say it is dark back there.

If you tested the 5442s on default/auto settings and it went to B/W then that tells us you really do not have enough light. On auto/default settings, it may slow the shutter down to 1/12 which would be a bright static image, but would be blur during motion. You need a minimum 1/60 shutter, but the faster the shutter the more light that is needed.

The 49225 represented the best overall autotracking PTZ in the sub $400 range, but the SD5A425GA-HNR represents the best overall value in the sub $1,000 range.

You would have to jump to this bad boy to get better performance than the SD5A425GA-HNR

 
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Michael11

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I'll post once everything is zeroed in. I'm new to BI so watching youtube and reading but need a break. I saw a rabbit go across the driveway and couldn't figure out how to go back to show my kid. I'll get there.
 

Michael11

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I found @wittaj 's camera settings advice* going through each one to set the basic settings first. During playback of triggers, I noticed some video issues and the BI status shows cameras having NoSignal at some points. It was too windy yesterday to get on a ladder to dial the cameras in perfectly, but I'll start with the basics below. Hopefully it works out some kinks.

*run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start for 4mp camera, along with 15 FPS and 15 i-frame.

1676300374161.png

Not sure if posting this helps anyone, or not. After all cameras are set like the above, I'll move to the shutter speed and gain advice.
 

wittaj

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You shouldn't have to get on a ladder to dial in the specifics as that is done within the camera GUI. At this point you should only need to get on a ladder to adjust the field of view or swap out a SD card or do a factory reset.

If you are getting signal drop-outs, we need to figure the cause.

Are your cameras connected and going thru the router or are they dual NIC or VLAN?

Are the no signals all hours or just at night?

How are you powering the cameras?
 

Michael11

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I need to adjust the field of view, I got it close, but not perfect. Got some overhang from soffit I want to get rid of. And my leveling isn't perfect.

Dual NIC

Powering via POE switch

1676301631540.png

Part of log that says signal restored.

1676301728014.png
 

wittaj

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Yeah that last tiny little view adjustments can be a pain.

OK, so bandwidth isn't an issue.

How are they being powered - make and model of the POE switch?

Not sure how long you have been running this, and while we shouldn't see any drops, an occasional one does happen sometimes if the camera gets wonky, especially if someone is using it at full specs or you change a parameter like encoding or something and it hiccups.

What camera is your bottom one - 7FPS and a 0.12 KEY means that if an object can be in and out of the field of view in under 8 seconds, there is a good chance BI will miss it.
 

Michael11

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I think I started BI Saturday.

Switch is Steamo I think.

Amazon.com: 8 Port Gigabit PoE Switch with 2 Gigabit Uplink,802.3af/at Compliant,100W Built-in Power,Unmanaged Metal Plug and Play : Electronics

So the camera in question was not giving me a substream in BI. I did troubleshooting then finally had to reboot it to factory settings but the firmware stayed the same version.

I was just updating all the GUI interfaces from 265 to 264 and lowering the FPS too. At 30fps they all stayed at 30.

The camera in question is now back at 15fps, I do notice some cameras dropping down to say 13.7fps as well. The screen shot shows it down at 13.45.

1676302792992.png
 
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wittaj

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A factory reset returns the camera to the factory default settings; however, it does not revert firmware to the firmware it left the factory with. It stays with whatever firmware it was last flashed with.

OK changing encoding at stuff could be the result of that drop as BI had to change the BVR from H265 to H264.

That is a cheap no-name POE switch. usually when BI sees fluctuations of more than say 0.3FPS that is usually the result of the cameras not getting enough power.

So it could be the switch or it could be the cables if you ran CCA instead of pure copper.
 

Michael11

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I ran Truecable pure copper CMR.

I used passthrough connectors that came with the crimping tool, but it didn't crimp that well on some. I had to use a neighbor's crimping tool to finish the job. We weren't sure if it was the passthrough connectors or the crimping tool giving issues. I tested every cable with a tester. I wouldn't think the connectors would cause that much of an issue given the bandwidth is fine. So maybe the switch. I'm in the return window, easy enough to swap out. Better than taking everything down to add new connectors.

I'm trying to watch to see if it's only specific ones. I've seen at least 3 cameras go to 13 something, then to 16. Hopefully it's not electrical interference.

I'll have a new switch by tomorrow.
 
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