Help with cameras and placement for a newb

[chubbspeterson]

Just moved into a new (to me) home and I want to put in some cameras to keep an eye on things. Currently, I have one doorbell camera as indicated in the property mockup. I have a network cabinet in the garage where I'll run all the wiring to my switch, which will save footage to my Synology NAS. I tried to layout the property as clearly as possible. There are only 3 access points...

1. Front door (where doorbell camera is)
2. Left side gate
3. Right side gate

CleanShot 2023-05-23 at 12.36.10

I definitely want to have full coverage of the front of the house to ensure I cover the three access points and I was thinking something like the below screenshot, which gives me coverage from side to side. The camera I picked out is from Empiretech-Andy and is a 3.6mm IPC-Color4K-T. I have 2 big floodlights that will turn on when the camera detects motion, so I'm hopeful the full color will come in handy.

CleanShot 2023-05-23 at 13.25.12

Does this provide enough coverage or do I need a second camera on the other corner of the house? One thing that isn't super clear in the overhead shot is that there is a big palm tree in front of the right corner of the house, so not sure how useful a camera will be there.Would it be beneficial to have camera on the back corners of the house looking towards the front like the screenshot below? This way if anyone actually comes through the gate, I'll have a pretty clear image of them. Or is this overkill?? The camera I was thinking of for these locations is a 6mm IPC-T5442TM-AS

CleanShot 2023-05-23 at 13.30.32

Onto the backyard... As you can see, the backyard is completely fenced in or blocked off by a wall from the street behind. Obviously, someone could access the property by climbing the wall or neighbor's fence, but how likely is that? I think I'd need at least 2 cameras here to cover the whole yard since it's quite wide at about 120 feet from edge to edge at the widest point.
Thanks so much for any help/guidance you could provide!

 

[mat200]

Welcome @chubbspeterson

Looks like a nice place.

Normally I like 2 cameras covering my driveway, 2 my front door ( one at face level, one watching the package drop area ), and one on each side of the house ..

Also, as the driveway is longer, I would look to have another camera get enough pixels out to the street in an attempt to get any images of a car in front of your home.

 

[chubbspeterson]

Thanks for the reply, @mat200. I think I'll wind up adding at least two cameras in the front to reduce the blind spots and then two on the sides to watch the gates. In the backyard, I'll probably think through what I cant to cover since it's such a large area and tackle that in phase two.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "get enough pixels out to the street"? Like get a camera with a varifocal lens and zoom it in (I've seen 12mm)?

 

[chubbspeterson]

After hours of reading yesterday, I'm thinking something like this..



Camera 1 & 2 location: opposite corners of garage door
One camera over each garage in the far corners looking back at each other to create some overlap. Based on my calculations, this should allow me to identify anyone around where a car would be parked in the driveway about 20-30ft away (there is usually one car on the left side if looking at the house).

Camera Choice
5442 varifocal turret or
Color-4K-T at 3.6MM.

I have carriage lights on each corner of the garage, which I believe will provide enough lighting for the 4K-T, but may blowout the IR if I go the 5442 route. Not sure how I make this choice...



Camera 3 location: between garage doors
One more camera mounted between the doors pointed straight down the driveway to identify anyone coming up the driveway, which is about 75ft long or up the right side of the front yard.

Camera Choice
IPC-B5442E-Z4E

Based on the JSVG and the IPVM calculators, I would need to zoom it into about 10.5*, which would give me a good chance of Identification at about 62PPF at the end of the driveway, which is 75ft long. I could get a higher PPF by zooming it in more, but that would reduce my FOV so that I'd only be able to see someone if they came straight up the driveway. I feel like it might make more sense to have a wider FOV so I can also grab that area to the right between the driveway and neighbor's fenceline.




Thoughts?

 

[mat200]

After hours of reading yesterday, I'm thinking something like this..

View attachment 163986

Camera 1 & 2 location: opposite corners of garage door
One camera over each garage in the far corners looking back at each other to create some overlap. Based on my calculations, this should allow me to identify anyone around where a car would be parked in the driveway about 20-30ft away (there is usually one car on the left side if looking at the house).

Camera Choice
5442 varifocal turret or
Color-4K-T at 3.6MM.

I have carriage lights on each corner of the garage, which I believe will provide enough lighting for the 4K-T, but may blowout the IR if I go the 5442 route. Not sure how I make this choice...

View attachment 163983

Camera 3 location: between garage doors
One more camera mounted between the doors pointed straight down the driveway to identify anyone coming up the driveway, which is about 75ft long or up the right side of the front yard.

Camera Choice
IPC-B5442E-Z4E

Based on the JSVG and the IPVM calculators, I would need to zoom it into about 10.5*, which would give me a good chance of Identification at about 62PPF at the end of the driveway, which is 75ft long. I could get a higher PPF by zooming it in more, but that would reduce my FOV so that I'd only be able to see someone if they came straight up the driveway. I feel like it might make more sense to have a wider FOV so I can also grab that area to the right between the driveway and neighbor's fenceline.

View attachment 163981
View attachment 163982

Thoughts?

looks good, ..

I would suggest testing the positions a bit lower, under the roof over hang and a bit lower....

also as you have a gate, I would put at camera there at face level ..

 

[chubbspeterson]

looks good, ..

I would suggest testing the positions a bit lower, under the roof over hang and a bit lower....

also as you have a gate, I would put at camera there at face level ..

Thanks for the reply. The garage spots you highlighted are where the carriage lights are, so I’m not sure if I can place them in the corners without the light washing out the image (especially with IR on the 5442)

That’s a great idea for putting a camera on the wall with the gate. We have a camera on the house 15 ft from that gate in the courtyard, so whomever walks through it is immediately captured.

 

[Ri22o]

Thanks for the reply. The garage spots you highlighted are where the carriage lights are, so I’m not sure if I can place them in the corners without the light washing out the image (especially with IR on the 5442)

That’s a great idea for putting a camera on the wall with the gate. We have a camera on the house 15 ft from that gate in the courtyard, so whomever walks through it is immediately captured.

I have my 5442 driveway cams under the garage header and they have no issues with the coach lights being right there.

 

[Ri22o]

For reference, that is a 5442 varifocal at the full 12mm. Check out my thread with comparison shots of different focal lengths, heights, etc. I also have a 3.6mm 4K-X as a driveway overview. It is pictured in that thread if you want to see the difference between what I posted above and the 3.6mm. My guess is you will end up with the varifocal 5442s.

 

[chubbspeterson]

For reference, that is a 5442 varifocal at the full 12mm. Check out my thread with comparison shots of different focal lengths, heights, etc. I also have a 3.6mm 4K-X as a driveway overview. It is pictured in that thread if you want to see the difference between what I posted above and the 3.6mm. My guess is you will end up with the varifocal 5442s.

I stumbled onto your post today and it was very helpful (I still need to go back and re-read). I think you're right re: the varifocals, but I'm having trouble saving no to full color if I have the lighting. Not sure it's worth the compromise of flexibility though...

 

[Ri22o]

I use the 4K-X as an overview of the driveway to give the color details and the 5442s in B/W zoomed in to pick up on the other details.

 

[mat200]

Thanks for the reply. The garage spots you highlighted are where the carriage lights are, so I’m not sure if I can place them in the corners without the light washing out the image (especially with IR on the 5442)

That’s a great idea for putting a camera on the wall with the gate. We have a camera on the house 15 ft from that gate in the courtyard, so whomever walks through it is immediately captured.

remember to test the locations before running your cables ..

 

[chubbspeterson]

I have my 5442 driveway cams under the garage header and they have no issues with the coach lights being right there.

It does look like your cameras are behind and a few feet away from the coach lights. Mine would quite literally be on top of the lights and might be obstructed by the eave. That's why I was thinking of attaching it directly to the front side of the eave

 

[chubbspeterson]

remember to test the locations before running your cables ..

100% plan on doing that. Right now, I'm just trying to capture feedback/ideas so I have a plan when I get the cameras

 

[wittaj]

Read thru the full color camera threads - you will find due to the larger sensor, the depth of focus is very small and many people are seeing soft focus outside of those areas.

These cameras are not infinity focus cameras, although some do better than others based on their sensor size and f-stop.

Many people believe 4MP is more than adequate for surveillance camera needs. We aren't making Hollywood movies LOL.

And many of us are finding that the Full Color cams (that are 4K cams) are better suited for overview cameras to get color captures, but unless you have the ideal sweet spot field of view, many are finding the focus is just too soft.

Remember not to chase MP as well!

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Ri22o]

If you could get cable here, I think you will be fine. Especially if you run a varifocal at 12mm. Mine actually ended up turned more towards the light than what I have pictured, so if anything mine have the chance of it being worse than yours if you cross them instead of running them more in parallel.

I don't think this is any further away than mine are mounted. I would think you would have more issues mounting above on the fascia than where I've circled.

 

[chubbspeterson]

Read thru the full color camera threads - you will find due to the larger sensor, the depth of focus is very small and many people are seeing soft focus outside of those areas.

These cameras are not infinity focus cameras, although some do better than others based on their sensor size and f-stop.

Many people believe 4MP is more than adequate for surveillance camera needs. We aren't making Hollywood movies LOL.

And many of us are finding that the Full Color cams (that are 4K cams) are better suited for overview cameras to get color captures, but unless you have the ideal sweet spot field of view, many are finding the focus is just too soft.

Remember not to chase MP as well!

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

Thanks. Didn't know that about soft focus of those cams. I'm well-versed in photography, so I do understand a lot of the physics behind this stuff and know better than to just base it on MP. It's the "putting together all the pieces" that I'm struggling with. If using the full color cams is best for overviews, then I may not really have a use case since my driveway is so long. I'm not sure my carriage lights would be bright enough to reach the road for me to maintain a fast enough shutter.

That is a fantastic article--I read it over the past couple of days.

 

[chubbspeterson]

If you could get cable here, I think you will be fine. Especially if you run a varifocal at 12mm. Mine actually ended up turned more towards the light than what I have pictured, so if anything mine have the chance of it being worse than yours if you cross them instead of running them more in parallel.

I don't think this is any further away than mine are mounted. I would think you would have more issues mounting above on the fascia than where I've circled.

View attachment 164020

That's exactly the "new" spot I was thinking when I took the photo. I have access behind those walls, so running cable won't be an issue at all.

 

[chubbspeterson]

@Ri22o I finally got around to test placing the cams and that spot closest to the light that you had noted works great during the day, but it's pretty bad at night. You can see there's tons of ghosting. Going to move it around tonight and see if I can find a better spot.

Originally, I was thinking I could mount it at the corner of the soffit using a PFG203W wall mount. This would position the camera in front of the light, which I imagine would cut down significantly on the glare. We'll see tonight...

View attachment 41z5Glq9eqL.__AC_SY300_SX300_QL70_FMwebp_.webp

 

[IAmATeaf]

If you turn it a bit to the left to get rid of the light in the bottom right it might get you a better overview and reduce the glare.

 

[Ri22o]

If you turn it a bit to the left to get rid of the light in the bottom right it might get you a better overview and reduce the glare.

That was going to be my suggestion as well.