Im a Neophyte and my head is spinning

[jamiesaun85]

Hey dudes, glad y'all let me in. My name is Jamie and I need some security cameras. Ordinarily id jump right in that cliffs notes, that was so well written, I must say; learn me up a few things and get buying. And that's exactly what i did, or started to anyway. That's what I do with every hobby, and I'm very good at it. As I'm sure you all are too, no doubt. I apologize for the arrogant or egotistical introduction, I promise you I am neither of those things.

Here's my problem, first: this isn't a hobby.....yet. Next: This need i have sort of came out of nowhere, I'm in a bit time crunch here. I believe I have at least narrowed it down to Dahua cameras because it seems almost every model is compatible with my NAS, they are affordable and seem to be on the higher end of quality compared to, say, Reolink or something similar. So i have made it that far into my research. Then from said cliffs notes, I learned how important sensor size and focal length is, and I just don't have the time to truly understand that right now. I figured a good compromise is to put something up now, then learn this stuff a little better after that, at which time i will install more. I saw some awfully impressive footage from reviews a gentleman here did, I'm sorry sir, I do not remember your name. I'm wondering If that camera would be a good one for my front porch area to cover the walkway and front yard, with the idea of additionally adding another camera above my garage and one in the back yard at a later time, once I've learned enough to know the difference. This 1/2.8 with....focal distance and how both are affected by the pixel density or whatever, I swear I'm always drinking from a fire hose. I actually thrive on it, but not this time.

So, with all that said, I guess what im asking is can you guys just like, ya know, tell me what to get for now? ill learn the rest after i have a little more piece of mind.

The model i was talking about was this one: DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED

But i cant find it anywhere. Maybe its been superceded or something. I see plenty of Dahua cameras on Amazon, but their specs mean literlly nothing to me at this point. All i Know is I want color night vision, h265 would be nice, im not interested in anything thats wifi. And i definitly will be getting a PTZ A.I. type camera in front of the house and likely in the back as well. But front porch and front yard area i would prefer something similar to this I believe. Again, I have no idea, so im open to suggestions or alternatives. Bullet or turret or whatever have you.

I appreceate any help in advance. thank you.

Oh, one more thing, I wont be doing any Blue Iris or anything like that, Fancy as they are, no doubt. But too many hobbies as it is currently. First im going to be running them through a POE switch staright into the NAS, which is an ASUSTOR. So, if that software sucks ill be using a DVR of some kind. Perhaps integating that with the nas, perhaps stand alone, It just depend on if ASUSTOR's surveilance software sucks or not. Some of their software sucks ass. Some of it is great. None of it is on the same level as Synology, but the hardware is quite a bit more capable, per dollar of course.

 

[mat200]

Hey dudes, glad y'all let me in. My name is Jamie and I need some security cameras. Ordinarily id jump right in that cliffs notes, that was so well written, I must say; learn me up a few things and get buying. And that's exactly what i did, or started to anyway. That's what I do with every hobby, and I'm very good at it. As I'm sure you all are too, no doubt. I apologize for the arrogant or egotistical introduction, I promise you I am neither of those things.

Here's my problem, first: this isn't a hobby.....yet. Next: This need i have sort of came out of nowhere, I'm in a bit time crunch here. I believe I have at least narrowed it down to Dahua cameras because it seems almost every model is compatible with my NAS, they are affordable and seem to be on the higher end of quality compared to, say, Reolink or something similar. So i have made it that far into my research. Then from said cliffs notes, I learned how important sensor size and focal length is, and I just don't have the time to truly understand that right now. I figured a good compromise is to put something up now, then learn this stuff a little better after that, at which time i will install more. I saw some awfully impressive footage from reviews a gentleman here did, I'm sorry sir, I do not remember your name. I'm wondering If that camera would be a good one for my front porch area to cover the walkway and front yard, with the idea of additionally adding another camera above my garage and one in the back yard at a later time, once I've learned enough to know the difference. This 1/2.8 with....focal distance and how both are affected by the pixel density or whatever, I swear I'm always drinking from a fire hose. I actually thrive on it, but not this time.

So, with all that said, I guess what im asking is can you guys just like, ya know, tell me what to get for now? ill learn the rest after i have a little more piece of mind.

The model i was talking about was this one: DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED

But i cant find it anywhere. Maybe its been superceded or something. I see plenty of Dahua cameras on Amazon, but their specs mean literlly nothing to me at this point. All i Know is I want color night vision, h265 would be nice, im not interested in anything thats wifi. And i definitly will be getting a PTZ A.I. type camera in front of the house and likely in the back as well. But front porch and front yard area i would prefer something similar to this I believe. Again, I have no idea, so im open to suggestions or alternatives. Bullet or turret or whatever have you.

I appreceate any help in advance. thank you.

Oh, one more thing, I wont be doing any Blue Iris or anything like that, Fancy as they are, no doubt. But too many hobbies as it is currently. First im going to be running them through a POE switch staright into the NAS, which is an ASUSTOR. So, if that software sucks ill be using a DVR of some kind. Perhaps integating that with the nas, perhaps stand alone, It just depend on if ASUSTOR's surveilance software sucks or not. Some of their software sucks ass. Some of it is great. None of it is on the same level as Synology, but the hardware is quite a bit more capable, per dollar of course.

Welcome @jamiesaun

Get one 4mp 1/1.8" varifocal dahua oem camera and a poe switch for starters

 

[jamiesaun85]

Welcome @jamiesaun

Get one 4mp 1/1.8" varifocal dahua oem camera and a poe switch for starters

Whoa, holy cow that was fast. Incredible. I have never seen an answer that fast in any thread of any forum I've ever been on. So that is awesome!

So varifocal means ill be adjusting the focus manually until i have it where i want it, then leave it that way, is that correct?

EDIT: I guess not, since the models i just look at say motorized. So that answers that i believe.

 

[jamiesaun85]

https://www.amazon.com/eSecure-Full-Color-Network-IPC-HDW3449TM-AS-LED-Security/dp/B086M8GZQ8/ref=sr_1_4?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.q4BmAiyqOQ5TeYICnSJDzmdl5ObazjRZBIMkoxoScj-hAqw6UIz4ENSvmpnIVXFkKpIaWKu9oEwYUw2uyBznKp3uXfmq1jeRsK15hqTRfyn_GgBpez6iD3CTSI5dTLezCdTTnjWDvNteFS8tkphjKnfw0d668RAL9g1TenpcpFvDoxfUd5g8GVCNCwYNxPdmleWPqnAckOVl_qqyTA_xmi3t4A70Cjj8pejiM5SlXfs.H9Pl9zwIpX16z3FXJmF1pnW4UUyO3wnJAcxtFLW0yTI&dib_tag=se&keywords=4mp+1/1.8"+varifocal+dahua+oem&qid=1724105083&sr=8-4

https://www.amazon.com/Dahua-IPC-EB244T-IR-ZS-Motorized-vari-Focal-Connection/dp/B08B8Y4RCS/ref=sr_1_2?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.q4BmAiyqOQ5TeYICnSJDzmdl5ObazjRZBIMkoxoScj-hAqw6UIz4ENSvmpnIVXFkKpIaWKu9oEwYUw2uyBznKp3uXfmq1jeRsK15hqTRfyn_GgBpez6iD3CTSI5dTLezCdTTnjWDvNteFS8tkphjKnfw0d668RAL9g1TenpcpFvDoxfUd5g8GVCNCwYNxPdmleWPqnAckOVl_qqyTA_xmi3t4A70Cjj8pejiM5SlXfs.H9Pl9zwIpX16z3FXJmF1pnW4UUyO3wnJAcxtFLW0yTI&dib_tag=se&keywords=4mp+1/1.8"+varifocal+dahua+oem&qid=1724105083&sr=8-2

Something like this? I did read that a dome is a no go for outside.

 

[wittaj]

You are already chasing MP by looking at a camera that is not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio!

And stay away from any that say full color or LED because they only see visible light. If you don't have enough white light or don't want to run the visible LED, then it is the wrong camera.

Don't buy the one you linked. Paying too much and no support.

Buy from trusted member @EMPIRETECANDY here. You can get that camera cheaper. Is is Dahua without the logo, but is Dahua OEM:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.rlLr7XzvNpoPEyRi8GJwdBK1jWZl2RswnPlMwKcDrUHNL6EFRiKmTY2Q8-3dAlMO9ifYNmLelmWaPLpAr5b2N_78Hdi4-X_l5Vngq9LFrxdqt_GmLklzr2oij5IFieLvQo3PNJv7XbZgXRlutvHvjznm7x7lSPCxKsW4UwJ6RrEZ5hdaqUD5dCGgkyZncMTcoUcfCPnyg3Zx8KW5mvgHmVxKd9zjPDoGDRTeTqZCgJI.rJZTcchnekUXZWfLsz-6i22vbd-zaunomNBUZsogGw8&dib_tag=se&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1724105243&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

 

[wittaj]

Most here will say that 4MP is the sweet spot for these types of cameras.

See this thread for the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

 

[jamiesaun85]

You are already chasing MP by looking at a camera that is not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio!

And stay away from any that say full color or LED because they only see visible light. If you don't have enough white light or don't want to run the visible LED, then it is the wrong camera.

Don't buy the one you linked. Paying too much and no support.

Buy from trusted member @EMPIRETECANDY here. You can get that camera cheaper. Is is Dahua without the logo, but is Dahua OEM:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.rlLr7XzvNpoPEyRi8GJwdBK1jWZl2RswnPlMwKcDrUHNL6EFRiKmTY2Q8-3dAlMO9ifYNmLelmWaPLpAr5b2N_78Hdi4-X_l5Vngq9LFrxdqt_GmLklzr2oij5IFieLvQo3PNJv7XbZgXRlutvHvjznm7x7lSPCxKsW4UwJ6RrEZ5hdaqUD5dCGgkyZncMTcoUcfCPnyg3Zx8KW5mvgHmVxKd9zjPDoGDRTeTqZCgJI.rJZTcchnekUXZWfLsz-6i22vbd-zaunomNBUZsogGw8&dib_tag=se&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1724105243&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

Yes sir, I was looking at that exact one. The problem is Empiretech is not on the supported camera list for my NAS. Dahua is. Will that matter? I have no idea. same manufacturer, right?

 

[jamiesaun85]

And i apologize to whoever sent a push notification. I enabled it, but after that the push was gone. So i did not receive that

 

[jamiesaun85]

You are already chasing MP by looking at a camera that is not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio!

And this right here, this is my problem. Thats over my head and I dont have time right now. I will learn this later. After i can monitor, at least something. This Ring Doorbell is garbage.

 

[wittaj]

And this right here, this is my problem. Thats over my head and I dont have time right now. I will learn this later. After i can monitor, at least something. This Ring Doorbell is garbage.

That is why I provided links to the cameras so you don't have to do the heavy lifting!

 

[wittaj]

Yes sir, I was looking at that exact one. The problem is Empiretech is not on the supported camera list for my NAS. Dahua is. Will that matter? I have no idea. same manufacturer, right?

Same manufacturer as EmpireTech literally buys the cameras from Dahua without the logo.

Now I can tell you some of the cameras seem to have issues with NAS. Even though these cameras are Dahua, Synology hasn't updated all of them. In some cases it is the user simply putting in the request to Synology to have it added.

There is a thread here somewhere, but I think the 5442 works with Dahua protocol in the NAS, but we need to find that thread or pose the question in the VMS sub-forum.

 

[mat200]

Yes sir, I was looking at that exact one. The problem is Empiretech is not on the supported camera list for my NAS. Dahua is. Will that matter? I have no idea. same manufacturer, right?

Motorized varifocal yes .. pick the fov you want and set it. Beats manual ones which you need to climb the ladder each time

Andy sells dahua oem cameras so they meet specs well and should be compatible with your nas software

 

[jamiesaun85]

Same manufacturer as EmpireTech literally buys the cameras from Dahua without the logo.

Now I can tell you some of the cameras seem to have issues with NAS. Even though these cameras are Dahua, Synology hasn't updated all of them. In some cases it is the user simply putting in the request to Synology to have it added.

There is a thread here somewhere, but I think the 5442 works with Dahua protocol in the NAS, but we need to find that thread or pose the question in the VMS sub-forum.

And the plot thikins, I wish i would have gone with a Synology, But I did not. I went with Asustor. Now, their list is very long and extensive, and they partnered with Dahua back in 2017. Everything Dahua is on that list. But Empire tech, is not. But, Amazon being what t is, I can always send it back.

Oh, and I did get into that exact thread you posted yesterday. That one, along with some of the linked threads in ther is what made my head spin in the first place. LOL

 

[jamiesaun85]

Motorized varifocal yes .. pick the fov you want and set it. Beats manual ones which you need to climb the ladder each time

Andy seems dahua oem cameras so they meet specs well and should be compatible with your nas software

Excellent. So Empire tech it is then is what you're saying? If its not compatible, I can always send it back.

 

[jamiesaun85]

Motorized varifocal yes .. pick the fov you want and set it. Beats manual ones which you need to climb the ladder each time

Andy seems dahua oem cameras so they meet specs well and should be compatible with your nas software

You are already chasing MP by looking at a camera that is not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio!

And stay away from any that say full color or LED because they only see visible light. If you don't have enough white light or don't want to run the visible LED, then it is the wrong camera.

Don't buy the one you linked. Paying too much and no support.

Buy from trusted member @EMPIRETECANDY here. You can get that camera cheaper. Is is Dahua without the logo, but is Dahua OEM:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.rlLr7XzvNpoPEyRi8GJwdBK1jWZl2RswnPlMwKcDrUHNL6EFRiKmTY2Q8-3dAlMO9ifYNmLelmWaPLpAr5b2N_78Hdi4-X_l5Vngq9LFrxdqt_GmLklzr2oij5IFieLvQo3PNJv7XbZgXRlutvHvjznm7x7lSPCxKsW4UwJ6RrEZ5hdaqUD5dCGgkyZncMTcoUcfCPnyg3Zx8KW5mvgHmVxKd9zjPDoGDRTeTqZCgJI.rJZTcchnekUXZWfLsz-6i22vbd-zaunomNBUZsogGw8&dib_tag=se&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1724105243&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

Okay gentlemen, I believe I will pull the trigger on this. This is what you guys are telling me, yes?

 

[samplenhold]

The link that @wittaj posted in entry #5 is the cam that I would suggest that you start with. It is a Dahua OEM cam that your NAS probably has listed as IPC-T5442T-ZE or IPC-HDW5442T-ZE or some variation but has the 5442 in the model number.

Buy that and set up a test rig like in the Cliff Notes (see mine below). Use this to develop a cam plan by setting up the test rig in a position that you think is where you would put a cam. Then walk it in daylight and nighttime. See if you get the video that you want, especially looking at facial identification.



Yes, the motorized varifocal is something that you use to select the proper FOV (field of view) and then leave it there. It is not a zoom feature like in a PTZ.

Before you pull the plug on a PTZ, really think this out and have a plan. Don't try and do too much with one cam.

All of my cams have been purchased from Andy at @EMPIRETECANDY but I bought from him directly not from the Amazon store.

To get an idea on how to think of a cam plan, see these threads.

Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views

A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...

ipcamtalk.com

Use of Overview and LPR Cams to Document Midnight Vehicle Distributing Offensive Flyers on Lawns

We were out of town and I was checking my cams remotely one morning and noticed one of the Deputies that regularly patrol my subdivision had been at my front door. She has come to me a few times requesting video as she knows I have fairly good coverage of the streets at my corner. I noticed that...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

A few other things you were asking for:

Color Night Vision

Not all it is cracked up to be.

I have said this before, but worth repeating. Do not be sold by some trademarked night color vision (Full Color, ColorVu, Starlight, etc.) that is a marketing ploy in a lot of ways lol. It is simply what a manufacturer wants to claim for low-light performance, but there are so many games that can be played even with the how they report the Lux numbers. They will claim a low lux of 0.0005 for example, but then that is with a wide open iris and a shutter at 1/3 second and an f1.0 - as soon as you have motion in it, it will be crap. You need a shutter of at minimum 1/60 second to reduce a lot of blur from someone walking.

All cameras need light regardless of what any marketing claims. I can make a crap camera look like noon at midnight, but then motion is a blur.

Sensor size, F number, MP, quality of the lens and sensor and software running the cameras are the real determining factors. And then obviously dial each cameras specific software settings to optimize the image and video. A brightness of 50 for example will look different between two different brands, or even the same brand but different cameras.

It is interesting how many of us experience better camera images with the camera LED off, regardless of whether it is a Hik or Dahua! I personally don't think they cast a far enough light to be effective. They are blinding looking at the camera, but do not project enough light out far enough to be effective. I have 3 different cameras with the LED and I do not run any of them on!

Unless you know you have enough ambient light or can live with the camera's white LED on, go with a camera that can see infrared. The full color type cameras cannot see infrared, so you couldn't add external IR later. You can always run a camera with infrared in force color if you have the available light.

But in a completely black situation without any ambient light and without the white LED on, it looks like crap and you cannot add external IR as it won't see it.

I have a Full Color type camera and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and it actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location. But without some light, a camera with IR capability is the safer bet.


H265

Not all it is cracked up to be.

This will explain H264 versus H265 a little better.

H265 in theory provides more storage as it compresses differently, but part of that compression means it macro blocks big areas of the image that it thinks isn't moving. That can be problematic for digital zooming with H265.

However, it also takes more processing power of the already small CPU in the camera and that can be problematic if someone is maxing out the camera in other areas like FPS and then it stutters.

Further some cameras can handle H265 better than others, even if the camera "claims" to support it.

In theory it is supposed to need 30% less storage than H264, but most of us have found it isn't that much. My savings were less than few minutes per day. And to my eye and others that I showed clips to and just said do you like video 1 or video 2 better, everyone thought the H264 provided a better image.

The left image is H264, so all the blocks are the same size corresponding to the resolution of the camera. H265 takes areas that it doesn't think has motion and makes them into bigger blocks and in doing so lessens the resolution in those larger blocks yet increases the camera CPU demand to develop these larger blocks.

In theory H265 is supposed to need half the bitrate because of the macroblocking. But if there is a lot of motion in the image, then it becomes a pixelated mess. The only way to get around that is a higher bitrate. But if you need to run the same bitrate for H265 as you do H264, then the storage savings is essentially zero.


In my testing I have one camera that sees a parked car in front of my house. H265 sees that the car isn't moving, so it macroblocks the whole car and surrounding area. Then the car owner walked up to the car and got in and the motion is missed because of the macroblock being so large. Or if it catches it, because the bitrate is low, it is a pixelated mess during the critical capture point and by the time H265 adjusts to there is now motion, the ideal capture is missed.

In my case, the car is clear and defined in H264, but is blurry and soft edges in H265.

Digital zooming is never really good and not something we recommend, but you stand a better chance of some digital zoom with H264 rather than a large macroblocked H265. I can digital zoom on my overview camera and kinda make out the address number of the house across the street with H264, but not a chance with H265 as it macroblocked his whole house.

H265 is one of those theory things that sounds good, but reality use is much different.

Some people have a field of view or goals that allow H265 to be sufficient for their needs.

As always, YMMV.


PTZ Cameras

PTZs are a compliment to an existing system and not replacements for fixed cameras.

Unless you are putting up the expensive industrial PTZs (tens of thousands of dollars), you will wear these out quickly having them on patrol.

You don't want to do pan/scan as the PTZs are only rated for so many "cycles" and folks that have used patrol have had the system become inoperable as a PTZ after a couple years. One person locked theirs up in a year.

Plus, while the PTZ is in motion in a pan/scan, it will not be able to identify and start tracking. It needs to sit stationary for a few seconds to allow the tracking rules to be established and then start checking motion against it.

Plus, if it is cycling it can be avoided by a perp and miss the action.

So with only PTZs and no additional fixed cameras - what happens when 2 or more people come up to your house - the PTZ is only catching and tracking one of them, not all of them.

PTZs are not perfect and can lose tracking. Then you miss the person.

What happens when the PTZ is looking left and a perp comes from the right?

That is why PTZs are not a replacement for fixed cameras - they are a compliment to an existing system.

If you rely on a PTZ only it will miss many instances, especially when it is off tracking something else.

You are much better off using fixed cams as spotter cams to point the PTZ to where the action is and then let the autotracking take over from there.

See this thread on how a PTZ compliments a fixed camera system.

Using Spotter Cameras to direct a PTZ where to look in an NVR or Blue Iris and setting a spotter cam as a priority in Blue Iris

We get this question from time to time, so I thought with the recent addition to BI, it made sense to have a thread we can point to. Previously in BI, if you had more than one spotter cam, you could not make one a priority, so if spotter cam #1 triggered the PTZ and it starts tracking and...

ipcamtalk.com

Your NAS

If you find that software sucks or is too expense, a $150 computer and $70 Blue Iris will be cheaper than an NVR and the BI system can use your NAS for storage of video.

 

[jamiesaun85]

The link that @wittaj posted in entry #5 is the cam that I would suggest that you start with. It is a Dahua OEM cam that your NAS probably has listed as IPC-T5442T-ZE or IPC-HDW5442T-ZE or some variation but has the 5442 in the model number.

Buy that and set up a test rig like in the Cliff Notes (see mine below). Use this to develop a cam plan by setting up the test rig in a position that you think is where you would put a cam. Then walk it in daylight and nighttime. See if you get the video that you want, especially looking at facial identification.

View attachment 201485

Yes, the motorized varifocal is something that you use to select the proper FOV (field of view) and then leave it there. It is not a zoom feature like in a PTZ.

Before you pull the plug on a PTZ, really think this out and have a plan. Don't try and do too much with one cam.

All of my cams have been purchased from Andy at @EMPIRETECANDY but I bought from him directly not from the Amazon store.

To get an idea on how to think of a cam plan, see these threads.

Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views

A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...

ipcamtalk.com

Use of Overview and LPR Cams to Document Midnight Vehicle Distributing Offensive Flyers on Lawns

We were out of town and I was checking my cams remotely one morning and noticed one of the Deputies that regularly patrol my subdivision had been at my front door. She has come to me a few times requesting video as she knows I have fairly good coverage of the streets at my corner. I noticed that...

ipcamtalk.com

Excellent. I have pinned both of those threads, I will read them this evening.

Good advice on the multi spot/lighting approach. Actually just good advice all around. Especially since it all coincides. Obviously there is a reason for all the agreement here.

And, was that you that wrote the cliffs notes? that is a wonderful thread. Enough to keep me bust for months. After i get something up, of course.

 

[samplenhold]

And, was that you that wrote the cliffs notes?

No, not me. They have evolved over the years since I had joined. Fairly certain that a few folks contributed and consolidated from different threads.

 

[jamiesaun85]

A few other things you were asking for:

Color Night Vision

Not all it is cracked up to be.

I have said this before, but worth repeating. Do not be sold by some trademarked night color vision (Full Color, ColorVu, Starlight, etc.) that is a marketing ploy in a lot of ways lol. It is simply what a manufacturer wants to claim for low-light performance, but there are so many games that can be played even with the how they report the Lux numbers. They will claim a low lux of 0.0005 for example, but then that is with a wide open iris and a shutter at 1/3 second and an f1.0 - as soon as you have motion in it, it will be crap. You need a shutter of at minimum 1/60 second to reduce a lot of blur from someone walking.

All cameras need light regardless of what any marketing claims. I can make a crap camera look like noon at midnight, but then motion is a blur.

Sensor size, F number, MP, quality of the lens and sensor and software running the cameras are the real determining factors. And then obviously dial each cameras specific software settings to optimize the image and video. A brightness of 50 for example will look different between two different brands, or even the same brand but different cameras.

It is interesting how many of us experience better camera images with the camera LED off, regardless of whether it is a Hik or Dahua! I personally don't think they cast a far enough light to be effective. They are blinding looking at the camera, but do not project enough light out far enough to be effective. I have 3 different cameras with the LED and I do not run any of them on!

Unless you know you have enough ambient light or can live with the camera's white LED on, go with a camera that can see infrared. The full color type cameras cannot see infrared, so you couldn't add external IR later.

But in a completely black situation without any ambient light and without the white LED on, it looks like crap and you cannot add external IR as it won't see it.

I have a Full Color type camera and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and it actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location. But without some light, a camera with IR capability is the safer bet.


H265

Not all it is cracked up to be.

This will explain H264 versus H265 a little better.

H265 in theory provides more storage as it compresses differently, but part of that compression means it macro blocks big areas of the image that it thinks isn't moving. That can be problematic for digital zooming with H265.

However, it also takes more processing power of the already small CPU in the camera and that can be problematic if someone is maxing out the camera in other areas like FPS and then it stutters.

Further some cameras can handle H265 better than others, even if the camera "claims" to support it.

In theory it is supposed to need 30% less storage than H264, but most of us have found it isn't that much. My savings were less than few minutes per day. And to my eye and others that I showed clips to and just said do you like video 1 or video 2 better, everyone thought the H264 provided a better image.

The left image is H264, so all the blocks are the same size corresponding to the resolution of the camera. H265 takes areas that it doesn't think has motion and makes them into bigger blocks and in doing so lessens the resolution in those larger blocks yet increases the camera CPU demand to develop these larger blocks.

In theory H265 is supposed to need half the bitrate because of the macroblocking. But if there is a lot of motion in the image, then it becomes a pixelated mess. The only way to get around that is a higher bitrate. But if you need to run the same bitrate for H265 as you do H264, then the storage savings is essentially zero.


In my testing I have one camera that sees a parked car in front of my house. H265 sees that the car isn't moving, so it macroblocks the whole car and surrounding area. Then the car owner walked up to the car and got in and the motion is missed because of the macroblock being so large. Or if it catches it, because the bitrate is low, it is a pixelated mess during the critical capture point and by the time H265 adjusts to there is now motion, the ideal capture is missed.

In my case, the car is clear and defined in H264, but is blurry and soft edges in H265.

Digital zooming is never really good and not something we recommend, but you stand a better chance of some digital zoom with H264 rather than a large macroblocked H265. I can digital zoom on my overview camera and kinda make out the address number of the house across the street with H264, but not a chance with H265 as it macroblocked his whole house.

H265 is one of those theory things that sounds good, but reality use is much different.

Some people have a field of view or goals that allow H265 to be sufficient for their needs.

As always, YMMV.


PTZ Cameras

PTZs are a compliment to an existing system and not replacements for fixed cameras.

Unless you are putting up the expensive industrial PTZs (tens of thousands of dollars), you will wear these out quickly having them on patrol.

You don't want to do pan/scan as the PTZs are only rated for so many "cycles" and folks that have used patrol have had the system become inoperable as a PTZ after a couple years. One person locked theirs up in a year.

Plus, while the PTZ is in motion in a pan/scan, it will not be able to identify and start tracking. It needs to sit stationary for a few seconds to allow the tracking rules to be established and then start checking motion against it.

Plus, if it is cycling it can be avoided by a perp and miss the action.

So with only PTZs and no additional fixed cameras - what happens when 2 or more people come up to your house - the PTZ is only catching and tracking one of them, not all of them.

PTZs are not perfect and can lose tracking. Then you miss the person.

What happens when the PTZ is looking left and a perp comes from the right?

That is why PTZs are not a replacement for fixed cameras - they are a compliment to an existing system.

If you rely on a PTZ only it will miss many instances, especially when it is off tracking something else.

You are much better off using fixed cams as spotter cams to point the PTZ to where the action is and then let the autotracking take over from there.

See this thread on how a PTZ compliments a fixed camera system.

Using Spotter Cameras to direct a PTZ where to look in an NVR or Blue Iris and setting a spotter cam as a priority in Blue Iris

We get this question from time to time, so I thought with the recent addition to BI, it made sense to have a thread we can point to. Previously in BI, if you had more than one spotter cam, you could not make one a priority, so if spotter cam #1 triggered the PTZ and it starts tracking and...

ipcamtalk.com

Your NAS

If you find that software sucks or is too expense, a $150 computer and $70 Blue Iris will be cheaper than an NVR and the BI system can use your NAS for storage of video.

No kidding? With all of the movie ripping and encoding I do, I have found h265 to be awesome. Having said that, I will have to defer to experience here, cameras are most likely different than my computers when it come to processing power and whatnot. So, if it does both, Ill try both and see? If it only does 264, no biggie. I do have about 30 terabytes of storage, so im not worried about the size at all. I was thinking more network saturation. My Lan runs on 2.5Gb. But the Wan is only 1Gigabit, and that's cable gigabit. So up load to the WAN is only 50 megabits. That's it. But, if that's not enough for live footage to my phone over the WAN, it doesnt really matter because i cant do anything about it anyway.