12 x 8MP - system requirements - discussion

sygad1

sygad1

Young grasshopper
Apr 6, 2016
70
20
Hi All

Looking for some advice about a new system.

Before I go on, I know there will be suggestions about VBR and lowering fps etc, but I am genuinely curious to know what would be needed and what bottlenecks would arise around pushing everything to maximum.

Looking at a mixture of observation and identification cameras, good night time vision (thinking, supplimental IR for 8MP and 1/1.8" Dahua)

Not looking for industrial grade and budgets of millionaires, more of a, take the better suggested cameras that are mostly recommended for 8MP and turn everything up to 11.

These are the settings off the top of my head for pushing a system

12 x 8MP, all running at 25/30 fps
8192 bit rate or higher
CBR
H265+

(anything else that would stress a system?)

So....

Would a cat6 1gig network crap out?
What PC h/w would be needed i.e. i7 6700 (lower or higher CPU)
How much storage would be needed for continuous recording of all cams.

Cheers for any insight
 
sygad1 said:
Hi All

Looking for some advice about a new system.

Before I go on, I know there will be suggestions about VBR and lowering fps etc, but I am genuinely curious to know what would be needed and what bottlenecks would arise around pushing everything to maximum.

Looking at a mixture of observation and identification cameras, good night time vision (thinking, supplimental IR for 8MP and 1/1.8" Dahua)

Not looking for industrial grade and budgets of millionaires, more of a, take the better suggested cameras that are mostly recommended for 8MP and turn everything up to 11.

These are the settings off the top of my head for pushing a system

12 x 8MP, all running at 25/30 fps
8192 bit rate or higher
CBR
H265+

(anything else that would stress a system?)

So....

Would a cat6 1gig network crap out?
What PC h/w would be needed i.e. i7 6700 (lower or higher CPU)
How much storage would be needed for continuous recording of all cams.

Cheers for any insight
Click to expand...
See the wiki.
You will need a powerful system unless you use limit decoding.
265+ is not compatible with blue iris.
 
@fenderman
been reading the wiki but can't really seem to place my finger on the correlation between setup size and requirements, there are some general guides around CPUs etc...

The bit which did seem to indicate CPU was the "which CPU do i actually buy" then it makes reference to MP/s, can you shed any light on this? I'm familiar with Mbps etc....

Is there a calculation i'm missing or another thing I need to read which explains MP/s, is it referring to bitrate?

limit decoding seems daunting and i'll probably need do to a heap more research around that one, not explored that as an option yet

@Jan Werbinski

i'm interested how you arrived at the i9 suggestion, can you share your thoughts/calculations?
 
From another thread i've been discussing 8MP cameras and IPC-HDW5831R-ZE seems to be promising camera.

12 of these, Cray supercomputer or a more moderately priced i7 / push the boat out i9 ?
 
sygad1 said:
@fenderman
been reading the wiki but can't really seem to place my finger on the correlation between setup size and requirements, there are some general guides around CPUs etc...

The bit which did seem to indicate CPU was the "which CPU do i actually buy" then it makes reference to MP/s, can you shed any light on this? I'm familiar with Mbps etc....

Is there a calculation i'm missing or another thing I need to read which explains MP/s, is it referring to bitrate?

limit decoding seems daunting and i'll probably need do to a heap more research around that one, not explored that as an option yet

@Jan Werbinski

i'm interested how you arrived at the i9 suggestion, can you share your thoughts/calculations?
Click to expand...
There are many threads discussing mp/s and blue iris even tells you the number.
Simply take the resolution x frame rate for each camera and add them together.
4mp x30fps = 120 mp/s
the 5381 will perform poorly at night. There are 8mp cameras with larger sensors. Start reading.
 
thanks for the breakdown and I didn't even know BI told me this, i'll get looking for it

Reading is all i've been doing for days but with so much information to learn, digest and cross reference, it becomes a Herculean task, hence the outreach

Do you have a more specific suggestion than the 5381? Interested in what you've tested/compared. Would the poor at night be mitigated with additional IR illumination

Andy suggested a couple of cameras but i'm ideally looking for the turret format.

and as always, thanks for the continued help
 
sygad1 said:
thanks for the breakdown and I didn't even know BI told me this, i'll get looking for it

Reading is all i've been doing for days but with so much information to learn, digest and cross reference, it becomes a Herculean task, hence the outreach

Do you have a more specific suggestion than the 5381? Interested in what you've tested/compared. Would the poor at night be mitigated with additional IR illumination

Andy suggested a couple of cameras but i'm ideally looking for the turret format.

and as always, thanks for the continued help
Click to expand...

Yeah a lot to learn I am looking for something similar. If you go to BI status (looks like a graph bar on top left of BI) - then go to camera - that is where the info is
 
@TL1096r much appreciated

wow, my current setup is running 505MP/s and they're just a bunch of cheapo cams

I think the answer to my original question of what would break 1st with everything turned up to 11 is sort of answered.....my bank balance ;-)

I have got quite a bit of new information to digest and ponder over, love this forum, so many helpful and seriously knowledgable people
 
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sygad1 said:
@TL1096r much appreciated

wow, my current setup is running 505MP/s and they're just a bunch of cheapo cams

I think the answer to my original question of what would break 1st with everything turned up to 11 is sort of answered.....my bank balance ;-)

I have got quite a bit of new information to digest and ponder over, love this forum, so many helpful and seriously knowledgable people
Click to expand...

yes for sure. please update your setup.
 
fenderman said:
See the wiki.
You will need a powerful system unless you use limit decoding.
265+ is not compatible with blue iris.
Click to expand...
========================
265+ is not compatible with blue iris, not always.

I've been running 8MP HikVision cameras as H.265 with their H.265+ enabled for the past 8 months, using BI4 and now BI5.

Maybe not all cameras and not all h.265 implementations, but some do work. It's even mentioned in BI5's help support is coming if not already here.

Not all cameras or camera stream formats will be compatible with this technology. The
software will attempt to disable this feature and return to software decoding if necessary,
and this condition should be logged to the Messages page in Status. For the best chance at
compatibility, you should ensure that the stream is encoded as “simple” as possible via
direct camera settings. H.264 “main” profile without manufacturer-specific add-ons such as
+ or “smart” modes is most likely to be compatible. However as hardware decoding and
their associated drivers improve, newer encoding methods such as H.265 and “high” profiles
may also be supported soon if not today.​

I understand it's best to keep things as simple as possible (KISS) in user guides and intro's, but there are also advantages to the the disk savings of 265/265+ encoding methods. It took time and I did a lot of trial and error to come up with a workable combination settings within BI to capture, record, and playback the video, but it CAN be done.

Yes, there is some CPU overhead but on a dedicated system with CPU to spare I'd rather use the CPU than buy more storage.

3840*2160, VBR, Highest quality, 12FPS, continuous record is around 20GB a day; less than half of what H.264 produced.

HV-Model-Ver-2019-06-21.png HV-Settings-2019-06-21.png Typical Daily Storage-2019-06-21.png BI Console-2019-06-21.png BI5 Video Settings-2019-06-21.png
 
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You have the same settings as I have. BI have no problem with H.265 or H.265+. But there is no hardware acceleration.
This is the problem: no hardware acceleration for H.265.
From your screens I don't see any indicaton of HA for H.265.
 
jmhmcse said:
========================
hv-settings-2019-06-21-png.43865
Click to expand...

4096 is the recommended bitrate for 2MP cameras, and is very low for 8MP.

Edit: Bitrate for H264
 
Last edited:
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4096 bitrate on an 8MP camera would be like setting 1024 bitrate on a 2MP camera.

2MP - 4096
4MP - 8192
8MP (4K) - 16384

From there the VBR will dial it back, although I find when you set it to the highest quality, it doesn't pull down the bit rate very much.

Edit: I'm referring to H264 for the above bitrates.

For H265:
2MP - 2048
4MP - 4096
8MP (4K) - 8192
 
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If using VBR your bit rate depends on the frame rate, iframe value, Also the complexity if the image, motion in the image, rate of the motion in the image. Also the quality of the camera softwarefor doing the compression, it is not very standard.
Shoot a solid white wall, will have a completely different rate, then shoot race cars going around a track.

test it your self. record two images for an hour and look at the file size.
A year of so ago, i tested a 2.1MP camera shooting a white poster board, Then shooting colored streamers on a ceiling fan. The streams file was 7 time bigger than the white board.

Test do not guess.
 
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SouthernYankee said:
If using VBR your bit rate depends on the frame rate, iframe value, Also the complexity if the image, motion in the image, rate of the motion in the image. Also the quality of the camera softwarefor doing the compression, it is not very standard.
Shoot a solid white wall, will have a completely different rate, then shoot race cars going around a track.

test it your self. record two images for an hour and look at the file size.
A year of so ago, i tested a 2.1MP camera shooting a white poster board, Then shooting colored streamers on a ceiling fan. The streams file was 7 time bigger than the white board.

Test do not guess.
Click to expand...

Is this in the Dahua settings? I will be doing some testing as I have a new 8MP 4K coming in and wanted to try to figure out what others are using - it will just be pointing outside - cars/people passing occasionally. Nothing crazy.
 
Test do not guess. Try the test will a fixed color shot. The compression depends on the amount of change in the picture. Study how the compress works. In color mode the camera white pixel is the same size as green
 
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