24 8MP Cameras using Blue Iris (follow up)

[dobiecomputers]

I had posted a thread about attempting to do an install using 24 8MP Cameras using Blue Iris, and said I would come back with a follow up.

I used two 10 Core V3 Xeon Chips, 64GB of RAM, 4 - 4TB drives for storage, an SSD for the OS and Blue Iris. I also used 4 different network cards with 6 cameras per switch to try to balance the network load. My total server cost was near $6,000.

Blue Iris started to choke at around 8 cameras. The video went choppy, as well as the recordings. I wasn't coming close to maxing out the CPU, or RAM. This was attempted using Direct to Disk recording, setting the cameras at 7fps.

I ended up having to use Milestone Xprotect Essentials, but even then I ran into issues using their smart client. If you put more than 6 cameras at their full resolution using smart client they would lag, and be choppy. Recordings were fine though. Overall it worked better than Blue Iris.

My resolution was to open the smart client software 4 times and use a program to split the screen into 4 sections. In the smart client you also need to have the resolution set at the max and the frames per second set at unlimited, having it attempt to lower the settings actually makes live viewing worse.

Xprotect Essentials I was able to use the 15fps on the 8MP cameras as well. It's a much more expensive program. I personally think Blue Iris is much more user friendly and provides better results, it's just not quite designed for that many 8MP cameras.

I believe Xprotect could handle even more cameras using this hardware, but Essentials maxes out at 26 cameras. My CPU usage seems to hover around 55% and am using approx 24GB of RAM. If someone is looking to have a similar setup they may be able to step down to 8 core processors instead of 10 and achieve usable results.

I don't think Blue Iris is quite ready for that many pixels being displayed at one time. I think if we could set the substream to be the main view, and when you clicked on the cameras it switched to the full resolution view it would save on the processing power and allow it to work.

I know this is a Blue Iris forum and not an Xprotect one, however my original intentions were to put this setup on Blue Iris and I don't think many of us get the opportunities to test such expensive hardware without a client paying for it. It would have helped me tremendously to know I needed much more expensive software prior to bidding out the job. Having to pay for Xprotect cut my profit to almost none, but it was a learning experience none the less.

 

[MartyO]

I don't think we are too interested in Xproject, but the BI results are interesting. It would be helpful to BI developer(s) to let them know how it functions when HD acceleration is released. BTW, BI is truly a unique product, with respect to three things:
1) Costs, its incredibly cheap.
2) The main goal of updates is new features, not elimintating bugs, it might say it fixes bugs, but many times( not all) it can create new bugs and the developers priority is adding features at the expense of stability. This not intentional just their business model.
3) Anytime a BI user preaches about the lack of reliability of WIFI cameras for security and talks about 99.9999 % uptime with hard wired cameras and you find yourself scratching your head, its because of BI's business model.

 

[fenderman]

I don't think we are too interested in Xproject, but the BI results are interesting. It would be helpful to BI developer(s) to let them know how it functions when HD acceleration is released. BTW, BI is truly a unique product, with respect to three things:
1) Costs, its incredibly cheap.
2) The main goal of updates is new features, not elimintating bugs, it might say it fixes bugs, but many times( not all) it can create new bugs and the developers priority is adding features at the expense of stability. This not intentional just their business model.
3) Anytime a BI user preaches about the lack of reliability of WIFI cameras for security and talks about 99.9999 % uptime with hard wired cameras and you find yourself scratching your head, its because of BI's business model.

The business model is not to create new bugs. Most of the updates apply just fine. The problem occurs when users install updates on their primary system 10 minuets after its release. If you think there are no bugs in other VMS you are sorely mistaken. The bug fixes mentioned are not always readily apparent to YOU because you may not have the issue. Its not necessarily a crashing issue, it can be a something as simple as this. https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/6900-Increase-camera-post-interval-to-FTP?highlight=3600
Bugs are eliminated within hours or at most a few days - way faster than ANY other developer. As you can see from the post above. So to say the main goal is not eliminating bugs is false. What bug do you currently have?
Your solution would have a yearly update release like many other vms and make everyone wait for features because YOU cannot disable auto updates. Makes no sense. If you need help let me know, I can teamviewer into your system to disable auto updates.
The BI users preaching up time are smart about when they update!!!! This is so important. TURN OFF AUTOMATIC UPDATES. Problem solved. This allows users who wish to update the opportunity to do so and allows others to sit back and wait. I have systems running for 3-4 months non stop before I reboot for updates..no glitches nothing. Updates are pushed VERY frequently and issues are VERY rare. This is a support forum so if 10 users post about an issue, that is a drop in the bucket compared to the tens of thousands of blue iris users. You are blowing it out of proportion. To say its "the business model" is being disingenuous.
You will have problems with any software if you are not smart about about updating. Even microsoft has issue with updates and they test the hell out of windows.

 

[MartyO]

The business model is not to create new bugs. Most of the updates apply just fine. The problem occurs when users install updates on their primary system 10 minuets after its release. If you think there are no bugs in other VMS you are sorely mistaken. The bug fixes mentioned are not always readily apparent to YOU because you may not have the issue. Its not necessarily a crashing issue, it can be a something as simple as this. https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/6900-Increase-camera-post-interval-to-FTP?highlight=3600
Bugs are eliminated within hours or at most a few days - way faster than ANY other developer. As you can see from the post above. So to say the main goal is not eliminating bugs is false. What bug do you currently have?
Your solution would have a yearly update release like many other vms and make everyone wait for features because YOU cannot disable auto updates. Makes no sense. If you need help let me know, I can teamviewer into your system to disable auto updates.
The BI users preaching up time are smart about when they update!!!! This is so important. TURN OFF AUTOMATIC UPDATES. Problem solved. This allows users who wish to update the opportunity to do so and allows others to sit back and wait. I have systems running for 3-4 months non stop before I reboot for updates..no glitches nothing. Updates are pushed VERY frequently and issues are VERY rare. This is a support forum so if 10 users post about an issue, that is a drop in the bucket compared to the tens of thousands of blue iris users. You are blowing it out of proportion. To say its "the business model" is being disingenuous.
You will have problems with any software if you are not smart about about updating. Even microsoft has issue with updates and they test the hell out of windows.

Its uptime, BI vs WIFI vs NVR. BI unintentionally loses. The business model for NVRs does not permit their updates to have the quanity of issues like BI. This is exactly why BI is so cheap.

 

[fenderman]

Its uptime, BI vs WIFI vs NVR. BI unintentionally loses. The business model for NVRs does not permit their updates to have the quanity of issues like BI. This is exactly why BI is so cheap.

You make no sense. My blue iris machines have BETTER uptime than many NVR's. You want uptime, DONT AUTO UPDATE. You will have the same effect of having an NVR with no updates. I can link you to hundreds of posts of nvr's rebooting, crashing, failing to record etc...every device can have an issue. Your logic is flawed, no updates = more stable..so simply dont update blue iris.
Your implication that blue iris is somehow unstable or unreliable is false.
NVR's are severely restricted with respect to custom settings.
Blue iris WAY too cheap for what it provides. Its way more functional than many vms software that charge 50 dollar PER camera. Again, you are mistaken if you think there are no issues with the expensive VMS.
Wifi has nothing to do with this discussion. wifi cameras should not be used in a security settings despite your contention otherwise.

 

[MartyO]

WIFI cameras are more stable than BI updates, think about it. I'm ok with it, but lets be honest, that's BI's business model.

 

[fenderman]

WIFI cameras are more stable than BI updates, think about it. I'm ok with it, but lets be honest, that's BI's business model.

No they are not. Regardless that is not the issue one has nothing to do with the other. You are making completely FALSE statements. Blue iris is super stable. My machines are not magical...they run perfectly..you need to be smart about updates and properly setup the machines you are using. Even my test machines run just fine on new updates. You are blowing things out of proportion simply because you see a handful of users post issues...there are tens of thousands of BI users. You are simply misinformed about this. Again, have you every used another VMS or checked the forums? Every piece of software has users with issues.

 

[djangel]

@MartyO - You must really hate Blue Iris. Seems like every time someone has a problem/experience with the software, you waste no time to insert your two cents about all it's flaws (business model?). Really? IMO, a lot of your posts are intended to be helpful, but I think sometimes you lack the correct technical expertise for it (Thread: Improving Nigh Vision Quality) and can't distinguished between your understanding and the real problem. Like @fenderman has mentioned numerous times, the simple fix for Blue Iris update "business model" is to not update everytime a new version is out. If your system is critical and working fine, why even bother risking having problems? I mean, is it that hard to understand? Furthermore, if you insist to update your BI software all the time, do you know you can easily install a previous working update and boom! problem fixed? I don't know of many programs able to do that on the fly. C'mon man, just let it go or like you were advised before, time to move on to a new VMS.

My two cents.

 

[MartyO]

This is simple, WIF cameras are more stable than BI updates. This is why Fenderman tells people to turn off auto update.

 

[MartyO]

ITs the BI business model, to get out extra features even if there is the update could crash your securtiy system. Of course it is not intended, but a WIFI camera is more stable then updating.

 

[fenderman]

ITs the BI business model, to get out extra features even if there is the update could crash your securtiy system. Of course it is not intended, but a WIFI camera is more stable then updating.

You are WAY over exaggerating crashes..where are you getting your data from? A few posts on a support forum? Have you compared issues with other VMS? If you want to quantify it, I would say about 1 in 100 updates result in instability for some users. That can be COMPLETELY avoided. This is NOT windows 10 with forced updates. This model of providing the latest features to those who want it and allow others to wait is PERFECT. What more can you ask for than the OPTION to update. Making folks wait a year for new features is ridiculous. You are posting false information based on your misunderstanding about blue iris and how support forums work.
Why is wifi even in the discussion? its not like its either wifi OR blue iris. You can run wired and blue iris or wired and NVR. It is not our fault you purchased junk wifi foscam mjpeg vga cameras.
Again, NVR's and other VMS have been known to have issues with firmware releases. You are simply misinformed.

 

[MartyO]

I mentioned WIFI to point out the irony of folks complaining that WIFI is not reliable enough for security systems, but at the same time they have security systems based on BI. I have no problem with either, its just WIFI is more stable than BI, plain and simple, putting things in perspective.

 

[fenderman]

I mentioned WIFI to point out the irony of folks complaining that WIFI is not reliable enough for security systems, but at the same time they have security systems based on BI. I have no problem with either, its just WIFI is more stable than BI, plain and simple, putting things in perspective.

That is based on the incorrect premise that blue iris is unstable which is absolutely false. You are simply making up facts based on a handful of posts when there are tens of thousands of blue iris users. Blue iris is CRAZY stable. I have 20+ machines running smooth as butter. You have no facts to backup your baseless assertions. Let us know how your nvr works out for you....

 

[MartyO]

This situation summarizes it best: You own a store and have a BI system with 8 cameras that can work with either WIFI or LAN, and riots in the street are expected in an hour because of an incident. Your are given a choice, run all cameras on WIFI only or update your BI with the latest update ( you cannot look on IPCAMtalk to see if there are post about problems with the latest update).

What would you do?

 

[Q™]

This situation summarizes it best: You own a store and have a BI system with 8 cameras that can work with either WIFI or LAN, and riots in the street are expected in an hour because of an incident. Your are given a choice, run all cameras on WIFI only or update your BI with the latest update ( you cannot look on IPCAMtalk to see if there are post about problems with the latest update).

What would you do?

1. Make certain the APC Smart UPS 1500 is charged
2. Call my two best friends and tell them to bring their shot guns and a couple of cases of bird and buckshot
3. Set up the lawn chairs on the roof
4. Fill the cooler with beer and ice
5. Prepare to defend the property

 

[djangel]

1. Make certain the APC Smart UPS 1500 is charged
2. Call my two best friends and tell them to bring their shot guns and a couple of cases of bird and buckshot
3. Set up the lawn chairs on the roof
4. Fill the cooler with beer and ice
5. Prepare to defend the property

And most importantly, stream the show via BlueIris latest version!

 

[fenderman]

This situation summarizes it best: You own a store and have a BI system with 8 cameras that can work with either WIFI or LAN, and riots in the street are expected in an hour because of an incident. Your are given a choice, run all cameras on WIFI only or update your BI with the latest update ( you cannot look on IPCAMtalk to see if there are post about problems with the latest update).

What would you do?

That is gotta be the silliest post ever. The answer is simple. Leave everything AS IS. Even new blue iris updates are more stable than wifi will ever be. Your contention otherwise is FALSE. Let me ask you, would your update your NVR before a known event?
I have no idea where you are getting the idea that blue iris updates are unstable. Again this is a user forum and obviously there will be problems here and there..

 

[Q™]

And most importantly, stream the show via BlueIris latest version!

​

 

[MartyO]

1. Make certain the APC Smart UPS 1500 is charged
2. Call my two best friends and tell them to bring their shot guns and a couple of cases of bird and buckshot
3. Set up the lawn chairs on the roof
4. Fill the cooler with beer and ice
5. Prepare to defend the property

Ok you gotta a better plan, but if the riots are delayed, item 4 will work against you.

 

[Q™]

Ok you gotta a better plan, but if the riots are delayed, item 4 will work against you.

My store is a 7-11: Virtually unlimited beer, ice...and Slurpies.