24 8MP Cameras using Blue Iris (follow up)

bp2008

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I had posted a thread about attempting to do an install using 24 8MP Cameras using Blue Iris, and said I would come back with a follow up.

I used two 10 Core V3 Xeon Chips, 64GB of RAM, 4 - 4TB drives for storage, an SSD for the OS and Blue Iris. I also used 4 different network cards with 6 cameras per switch to try to balance the network load. My total server cost was near $6,000.

Blue Iris started to choke at around 8 cameras. The video went choppy, as well as the recordings. I wasn't coming close to maxing out the CPU, or RAM. This was attempted using Direct to Disk recording, setting the cameras at 7fps.

I ended up having to use Milestone Xprotect Essentials, but even then I ran into issues using their smart client. If you put more than 6 cameras at their full resolution using smart client they would lag, and be choppy. Recordings were fine though. Overall it worked better than Blue Iris.

My resolution was to open the smart client software 4 times and use a program to split the screen into 4 sections. In the smart client you also need to have the resolution set at the max and the frames per second set at unlimited, having it attempt to lower the settings actually makes live viewing worse.

Xprotect Essentials I was able to use the 15fps on the 8MP cameras as well. It's a much more expensive program. I personally think Blue Iris is much more user friendly and provides better results, it's just not quite designed for that many 8MP cameras.

I believe Xprotect could handle even more cameras using this hardware, but Essentials maxes out at 26 cameras. My CPU usage seems to hover around 55% and am using approx 24GB of RAM. If someone is looking to have a similar setup they may be able to step down to 8 core processors instead of 10 and achieve usable results.

I don't think Blue Iris is quite ready for that many pixels being displayed at one time. I think if we could set the substream to be the main view, and when you clicked on the cameras it switched to the full resolution view it would save on the processing power and allow it to work.

I know this is a Blue Iris forum and not an Xprotect one, however my original intentions were to put this setup on Blue Iris and I don't think many of us get the opportunities to test such expensive hardware without a client paying for it. It would have helped me tremendously to know I needed much more expensive software prior to bidding out the job. Having to pay for Xprotect cut my profit to almost none, but it was a learning experience none the less.
Thank you for this information. I am very surprised that BI choked with that load of 8x 8MP cams, because it isn't that much more of a load than I am currently running now on remarkably less hardware. Obviously there is a bottleneck somewhere besides CPU and memory. Your network setup certainly sounds like overkill :)

I wonder if maybe BI is trying to use h264 decoding hardware acceleration from the CPU or something, and not falling back to pure software decoding once the hardware decoder is maxed out? Anyway there must be a bottleneck somewhere. Maybe it is actually memory bandwidth or something. Unless my math fails me, 8x 8mp cams is something like 1.4 gigabytes per second of raw image data (assuming it is passed around as 24 bit RGB). A fairly tremendous amount of data to push around.
 

fenderman

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Thank you for this information. I am very surprised that BI choked with that load of 8x 8MP cams, because it isn't that much more of a load than I am currently running now on remarkably less hardware. Obviously there is a bottleneck somewhere besides CPU and memory. Your network setup certainly sounds like overkill :)

I wonder if maybe BI is trying to use h264 decoding hardware acceleration from the CPU or something, and not falling back to pure software decoding once the hardware decoder is maxed out? Anyway there must be a bottleneck somewhere. Maybe it is actually memory bandwidth or something. Unless my math fails me, 8x 8mp cams is something like 1.4 gigabytes per second of raw image data (assuming it is passed around as 24 bit RGB). A fairly tremendous amount of data to push around.
Good point. @dobiecomputers Were you testing BI in demo mode?
 

wcrowder

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Its uptime, BI vs WIFI vs NVR. BI unintentionally loses. The business model for NVRs does not permit their updates to have the quanity of issues like BI. This is exactly why BI is so cheap.
I'm new here.

If you need wi-fi, use point-to point. Ubiquity comes to mind.

Blue Iris is as good system when using less then 16 cameras for home/SMB use. Stop fiddling with it if you need stability.

I do Surveillance on an Enterprise scale for a living. If you know what you are doing BI is the best thing I've ever seen for 16 or less cameras.

After reading this post, I don't believe you know what you are doing.
 
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MartyO

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I'm new here.

If you need wi-fi, use point-to point. Ubiquity comes to mind.

Blue Iris is as good system when using less then 16 cameras for home/SMB use. Stop fiddling with it if you need stability.

I do Surveillance on an Enterprise scale for a living. If you know what you are doing BI is the best thing I've ever seen for 16 or less cameras.

After reading this post, I don't believe you know what you are doing.

That's ok I feel the same about you.
 

MartyO

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Wcrowder, I like BI, it does enough for me, I haven't updated in 3 months. when HD acceleration is out and stable, I'll be tempted to update then, PCs are very powerful and so are graphic cards, together this could distinguish this platform from NVR type. The updates should be vetted more, its my opinion. Compared to any other type of Windows software, BI's updates have a higher chance of being buggy.
 

fenderman

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Windows software, BI's updates have a higher chance of being buggy.
That is absolutely false. You have zero data to backup your claim. Do you know how the updates are vetted? Testing updates cannot forsee every possible scenario..windows itself has update issues. Every software package has some folks who develop issues after updates. That doesnt mean blue iris is anymore buggy than other software, and particularly other vms. You keep making these false statements based off a few posts on this forum..why dont you check out the forums for the other packages and see whether they are bug free. The point is with a little common sense you can guarantee ZERO downtime or issues.
Why in the world should everyone have to wait for updates because you cannot uncheck a box? Ken is doing us a tremendous service by pumping out these added features and updates. ITS OPTIONAL - I cannot stress this enough!!!! I really dont understand your problem.
 

MartyO

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Fenderman,

BI pumps out way more updates than most software, if you use a little statistics you will see why that makes it have a higher chance of being buggy. especially as you said its to offer new features so cheaply and that is why you yourself recommend to turn off updates. Lets be honest. IMO that business model eventually will be a drag on its success.
 

fenderman

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Fenderman,

BI pumps out way more updates than most software, if you use a little statistics you will see why that makes it have a higher chance of being buggy. especially as you said its to offer new features so cheaply and that is why you yourself recommend to turn off updates. Lets be honest. IMO that business model eventually will be a drag on its success.
Providing MORE updates and NEW features is a GOOD thing not a bad thing!!!! What statistics? You need data for statistics which you do NOT have. You are simply making it up. What does the price have to do with it? I recommend turning off auto updates with EVERY software that is critical, and its a recommendation to guarantee 100 percent up time. I have two systems that I use as "test" system that I update regularly with the newest updates they run just fine. You have ZERO evidence that blue iris updates are less stable that ANY other software. None. You keep saying "business model" but you have no idea what you are talking about. The "business model" of providing new features and functions quickly is WHY blue iris is popular. Trust me, ken, does not need your business acumen.
Drag on its success? Blue iris has been around since at least 2008 (probably earlier) and getting more popular not less. Users like updates and new features. They dont want to wait a year for them. There is nothing even close to blue iris in this price range. No one is going to spend 100 per camera because blue iris is providing too man new features. How dare blue iris offer these new features so frequently! Whats wrong with that company? They should wait a year because we all know that waiting a year between updates guarantees 100 percent success .
Lets be honest, you have no data to backup your claims and you have no idea what you are talking about. You can achieve the same result you are looking for by turning off auto updates - I have offer to log in via teamviewer and help you do this.. I have never seen anyone complain so much about getting NEW features for FREE so OFTEN. My mind is blown. So whats your problem?
 

MartyO

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Like you always say, don't auto update. There is a reason for your advice. Happy Thanksgiving!
 

fenderman

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Like you always say, don't auto update. There is a reason for your advice. Happy Thanksgiving!
Cant your read? I do that for all software, it guarantees 100 percent up time. It doesnt mean blue iris is any more prone to issues that ANY other software. You are making BASELESS and completely FALSE claims about one of the best vms packages on the market today. I have never seen anyone complain about getting new updates and features so often. NEVER. This is mind boggling.

btw, how is that hikvision nvr working out for you?
 

chaycock

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> of nvr's rebooting, crashing, failing to record etc...every device can have an issue

Yes, I have had several of those in the past...and when they do fail or have software problems, you are pretty much stuck and have to toss it in the trash. The BI platform is much more stable than any NVR I have used, not to mention feature rich and constantly being enhanced. Also, you need to consider that BI is written by a single individual, that is all he does, and it is amazing that he is able to turn out such a feature rich and stable piece of software with such rapid development. Any software update of any kind is subject to have bugs, especially if a new feature is added. I don't think it is realistic to expect a one-man shop to be able to fully regression test every single release...give the guy a break already. He also does not charge for updates, so I don't see how you can say releasing buggy software is his business model...he is not making any money off of updates.
 

chaycock

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> You own a store and have a BI system with 8 cameras that can work with either WIFI or LAN,

I don't see how anyone that takes building a camera system seriously can even consider WIFI. I think that says a lot about the OP.
 
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MartyO

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> You own a store and have a BI system with 8 cameras that can work with either WIFI or LAN,

I don't see how anyone that takes building a camera system seriously can even consider WIFI. I think that says a lot about the OP.
OP had a good post with info, I (my mistke) used it to complain about update strategy, my fault. Dobbie computers are smokin happy, he's trying to turn them on to BlueIris and share the experience.
 

spyfly81

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> of nvr's rebooting, crashing, failing to record etc...every device can have an issue

Yes, I have had several of those in the past...and when they do fail or have software problems, you are pretty much stuck and have to toss it in the trash. The BI platform is much more stable than any NVR I have used, not to mention feature rich and constantly being enhanced. Also, you need to consider that BI is written by a single individual, that is all he does, and it is amazing that he is able to turn out such a feature rich and stable piece of software with such rapid development. Any software update of any kind is subject to have bugs, especially if a new feature is added. I don't think it is realistic to expect a one-man shop to be able to fully regression test every single release...give the guy a break already. He also does not charge for updates, so I don't see how you can say releasing buggy software is his business model...he is not making any money off of updates.
I will agree with this I have a NVR that is now useless do to the fact that the network port failed so it is pretty much worthless
 
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