2nd Amendment thread
- Thread starter bigredfish
- Start date
Oceanslider
Known around here
I don't know who Trevor is, guess my take was how the Swiss educate their youth to respect fire arms. I am also in favor of how Israel requires 2 years of military service for their citizens. I understand this is because they are surrounded by their enemies on all their borders but if this was mandatory in the states I would hope for a similar outcome, respect for arms and country.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
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So I read that there were some teachers at the Nashville school who were authorized to carry in the school. I have not seen that they were actually present that day, but twitter trolls are turning that into evidence that arming teachers/staff is not effective.
Consider this scenario. You are a teacher in that school. You are armed. You have your 25 kids in your room sheltered as best you can, but it's a classroom. You know there is shooting going on (and your students know too). You are the only one armed.
Given that----
do you LEAVE your students unprotected (from the very defensible position you have them in) and go "hunt" the shooter?
EDIT: some context in a poorly written story.
Consider this scenario. You are a teacher in that school. You are armed. You have your 25 kids in your room sheltered as best you can, but it's a classroom. You know there is shooting going on (and your students know too). You are the only one armed.
Given that----
do you LEAVE your students unprotected (from the very defensible position you have them in) and go "hunt" the shooter?
EDIT: some context in a poorly written story.
Covenant School employee said staff members carried guns
A person hiding under a desk during the shooting at the Covenant School told the 911 dispatcher that one or two staff members carry guns.
www.tennessean.com
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I would not leave my students but would use deadly force if the opportunity arose.
- Nov 25, 2016
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The three students and three adults who died were out in the open and shot by Hale when she first entered the building. The remaining teachers locked down their respective classrooms and prevented her from entering any of them. Hale shot through some classroom doors but couldn't get into the rooms. The teachers and children were flat on the floors and uninjured.
Those teachers did their jobs. They protected the kids first. If any teachers were armed, I do not doubt they would have fired on Hale if she had succeeded in forcing her way into a classroom, but that never happened. The MNPD showed up and took Hale out before she had time to do so.
Two lessons from this incident:
(1) Schools need ballistic glass on all access doors. Hale would have never made it inside otherwise.
(2) As the MNPD showed, get a team inside fast and take out the shooter without hesitation. Don't give the shooter time to plan out a new strategy. Hale was stymied by the locked classroom doors, and died before she could adapt to the situation.
When I was in school back in the 1960-70s, all external doors had glass that had what looked like chicken wire in between two glass panels. You could shoot out the glass, but never get your hand inside to open the door. I remember when one of the windows had been broken and the guy replacing it had to remove the whole window and frame.
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Ssayer
BIT Beta Team
From the start, all I could think is Nothing good can happen here...
Oceanslider
Known around here
Signed. That makes 26 states. South Carolina and Nebraska may see this happen this year as well.
Though I’m torn about the training requirement side of this, (or lack thereof) it’s the right thing to do re: the Constitution
SD passed the CC law in 2019, and I still went and took the course for the Enhanced permit. Hopefully many others will do the same-- but 1 in 8 South Dakotans already had permits to carry before the CC law passed, so there probably are not many more who actively carry.
For me-- I wanted to know the specifics of how the law works. SD is set up with their armed defense laws based on correcting the flaws in the Florida stand your ground law. I have no duty to retreat. If someone else is under attack, my actions are covered as legal defense, and if my PROPERTY is at risk for theft or malicious destruction, I am within my rights to use force-- I can play rooftop Korean if the need arises.
Yeah we have no duty to retreat, and can use force within "curtilage" which can be seen as a fenced in yard or area, but not directly to defend property. We also have Presumption: ie the State Presumes anyone forcibly entering you home means you death or great bodily harm, thus use of deadly force is allowed.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
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Slo Mo Guys AND Kentucky Ballistics .. this is what great collaboration is all about !! 2 great channels ..
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
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yes .. good question .. you can bet that California and New York would use any Training requirement to restrict anyone not paying off politicians .. err .. donating to public causes ..
Personally, I do think that the USA should take lessons from the Swiss and Israelis about getting citizens more familiar with firearms ..