2nd Amendment thread

SouthernYankee said:
Another feel good story.
Texas right to carry.

www.kbtx.com

Man shoots, kills 2 men trying to rob him at ATM, police say

Authorities say a man shot and killed two people who were reportedly trying to rob him.
www.kbtx.com www.kbtx.com
Click to expand...
"Police said a man drove up to an ATM to withdraw money and saw two people approach him who he believed were trying to rob him. The man then shot and killed the two men."

Who he believed were trying to rob him? If these 2 people weren't armed, I'd think the shooter is looking at a murder charge. Even if armed, who he believed is a pretty shaky defense.
 
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tigerwillow1 said:
"Police said a man drove up to an ATM to withdraw money and saw two people approach him who he believed were trying to rob him. The man then shot and killed the two men."

Who he believed were trying to rob him? If these 2 people weren't armed, I'd think the shooter is looking at a murder charge. Even if armed, who he believed is a pretty shaky defense.
Click to expand...
Remember, story is written by a "reporter". Verifying facts is outside the scope of the job. ;)
As Paul Harvey would say, there is bound to be "more to the story".
 
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tigerwillow1 said:
"Police said a man drove up to an ATM to withdraw money and saw two people approach him who he believed were trying to rob him. The man then shot and killed the two men."

Who he believed were trying to rob him? If these 2 people weren't armed, I'd think the shooter is looking at a murder charge. Even if armed, who he believed is a pretty shaky defense.
Click to expand...
As you know, that's a verbal description of events, from notes taken by a reporter interviewing the police department's spokesperson and then re-written, edited, etc. by a third person for airing an/or web site print......frankly, we don't really know at this early stage what the "victim" really said with any real accuracy........IMO.

But certainly, if he did shoot them unjustifiably I'd be the first one on the jury with a thumbs down; we should just let this play out.....:cool:
 
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sdkid said:
So.... anybody have a "pocket gun" for convenient CC??
Click to expand...

Original Ruger LCP .380 with laser. Nice little bang twig.
 
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OICU2 said:
Ruger 380 LCP II...never leave home without it, in addition to an IWB Glock G26 9.
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I looked at that in Cabellas this past week. I wanted something in 9mm so I don't have to stockpile yet another caliber. Hmmmmm...
 
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P365
 
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While I do not carry it in a pocket, KelTek P3AT (.380). I use a centerline holster. But you could carry in a pocket.
 
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samplenhold said:
While I do not carry it in a pocket, KelTek P3AT (.380). I use a centerline holster. But you could carry in a pocket.
Click to expand...
Heh--- I am looking up all these guns. That KelTek is discontinued. Now they have a P32 in 32auto

1689564522480.png

www.pewpewtactical.com

KelTec P32 Review: The Ultimate Pocket Pistol?

We take a look at the teeny-tiny KelTec P32, chambered in .32 ACP, to see if this pocket pistol makes for a good concealed carry gun...
www.pewpewtactical.com www.pewpewtactical.com

www.keltecweapons.com

P32 .32ACP Pistol | Easily Concealed Carry | EDC Gun | Specs | KelTec

Looking for an ideal pistol that's easily concealed? The P32's compact size, light recoil and 7+1 capacity makes it perfect for many situations.
www.keltecweapons.com www.keltecweapons.com
 
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tigerwillow1 said:
"Police said a man drove up to an ATM to withdraw money and saw two people approach him who he believed were trying to rob him. The man then shot and killed the two men."

Who he believed were trying to rob him? If these 2 people weren't armed, I'd think the shooter is looking at a murder charge. Even if armed, who he believed is a pretty shaky defense.
Click to expand...

I agree but every atm has cctv coverage so they should be able to clear it up one way or another pretty quickly. Also, Looney makes a good point on reporters
 
sdkid said:
Heh--- I am looking up all these guns. That KelTek is discontinued. Now they have a P32 in 32auto

View attachment 167868

www.pewpewtactical.com

KelTec P32 Review: The Ultimate Pocket Pistol?

We take a look at the teeny-tiny KelTec P32, chambered in .32 ACP, to see if this pocket pistol makes for a good concealed carry gun...
www.pewpewtactical.com www.pewpewtactical.com

www.keltecweapons.com

P32 .32ACP Pistol | Easily Concealed Carry | EDC Gun | Specs | KelTec

Looking for an ideal pistol that's easily concealed? The P32's compact size, light recoil and 7+1 capacity makes it perfect for many situations.
www.keltecweapons.com www.keltecweapons.com
Click to expand...


Small calibres are fine but lack stopping power. It's always a balance between recoil and thus 2nd shot ability, concealment and stopping ability. I personally wouldn't fancy a .32 for self defence although it's better than nothing.

For me, it would be 10mm all the way.
 
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CCTVCam said:
Small calibres are fine but lack stopping power. It's always a balance between recoil and thus 2nd shot ability, concealment and stopping ability. I personally wouldn't fancy a .32 for self defence although it's better than nothing.

For me, it would be 10mm all the way.
Click to expand...

Agree, for me 9 is the smallest I care to carry. If I want small I really like my wife’s Sig 239 in .40. My primary CC is either a Glock 23 or a Commander size 1911.
 
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CCTVCam said:
Small calibres are fine but lack stopping power. It's always a balance between recoil and thus 2nd shot ability, concealment and stopping ability. I personally wouldn't fancy a .32 for self defence although it's better than nothing.

For me, it would be 10mm all the way.
Click to expand...
Right before reading this, I was looking at this chart....

CaliberLoadBulletMV (fps)ME (ft. lbs.)Penetration (10% gel.)AIT (goats at Strasbourg)One Shot Stop %Test Brl.
.22LRCCI, Rem, Win Hi.Vel.40gr.LRN9558112.8"n/a21%unk.
.22LRCCI,Rem,Win Hi.Vel.37grLHP9757810.3"n/a29%unk.
.22LRRem. Yellow Jacket33gr.TCHP1259116n/an/a33%6" Colt
.22LRCCI Stinger32gr.LHP12621139.8"n/a34%6" Colt
.22WMRCCI +V30gr.HP14501409.2"n/a40%unk.
.22WMRCCI +V30gr.HP1300120n/an/an/a2" NAA
.22WMRWinchester40gr.JHP140017413"n/a42%6.5" Ruger
.22WMRWinchester40gr.JHP1098108n/an/an/a2" NAA
.22WMRFederal50gr.JHP81774n/an/an/a2" NAA
.25ACPWinchester45gr.Ex.Pt.8156613.8"n/a25%2" test
.25ACPAll50gr.FMJ7606418"n/a23%unk.
.25ACPMagSafe Defender22gr.Frag.1610n/a6"n/a41%est.2.5" test
.32ACPWinchester60gr.STHP9701256.5"n/a63%3.2" Wthr.
.32ACPMagsafe Defender50gr.Frag.12501917.8"n/a57%est.3.5" test
.380ACPFederal90gr.JHP100520014.4"11.06 sec.69%3.6" SIG
.380ACPRem. Golden Saber102gr.JHP9251949.4"n/a64%3.6" SIG
.380ACPRemington88gr.JHP100019512.8"13.46 sec.54%3.6" SIG
.380ACPFederal Hydra-Shok90gr.JHP100720010.5"10.94 sec.69%3.6" SIG
.380ACPCor-Bon +P90gr.JHP10412179"11.12 sec.70%3.6" SIG
.380ACPFed, Rem, Win.95gr.FMJ95519017"22.8 sec.51%3.6" SIG
.380ACPCCI Gold Dot90gr.JHP10302128"n/a67%3.6" SIG
.380ACPGlaser Blue70gr.Frag.13132685"7.94 sec.75%3.6" SIG
.38Spec.Winchester +P158gr.LHP79028015.2"n/a67%2" S&W
.38Spec.Federal, Rem, Win.158gr.RNL587200n/a46.58 sec.49%2" S&W
.38Spec.Remington +P158gr.LHP776211n/a15.52 sec.65%2" S&W
.38Spec.Glaser Blue80gr.Frag.13504006"n/a77%est.2" S&W
.38Spec.Cor-Bon +P115gr.JHP124339514.2"8.98 sec.83%4" S&W
.38Spec.Glaser Blue +P80gr.Frag.16674947"4.72 sec.84%est.4" S&W
.38SpecWinchester +P158gr.LHP99634215.2"10.76 sec.78%4" S&W
.38Spec.Federal +P125gr.JHP94524812.2"n/a73%4" S&W
.38Spec.Federal, Rem, Win.158gr.RNL70817628.5"33.68 sec.52%4" S&W
.38Spec.Remington +P125gr.SJHP100828011.1"11.74 sec.69%4" Colt
9x19Glaser Blue80gr.Frag.15554306"7.42 sec.94%est.4" S&W
9x19Cor-Bon +P115gr.JHP132145414.2"8.92 sec.91%4" Glock
9x19MagSafe Stealth +P64gr.Frag.195046110"4.74 sec.90%est.4.25" SIG
9x19Winchester115gr.STHP12253838"n/a83%unk.
9x19Rem.Golden Saber+P124gr.JHP118038412"n/a83%unk.
9x19Remington +P115gr.JHP128839912.7"8.98 sec.89%4" S&W
9x19Federal115gr.JHP117534114.5"9.36 sec.81%4" S&W
.38SuperRemington +P115gr.JHP1300431n/an/a88%5" test
.357Mag.Glaser Blue80gr.Frag.16875056"4.82 sec.89%est.4" S&W
.357Mag.Federal110gr.JHP129541010"n/a90%4" S&W
.357Mag.Federal125gr.JHP144258013.3"7.44 sec.96%4" S&W
.357Mag.Remington125gr.SJHP146858313"7.34 sec.96%4" Colt
.357Mag.Rem.Golden Saber MV125gr.JHP122041313"n/a84%4" S&W
.357Mag.Remington Med.Vel.125gr.SJHP120541315.5"7.94 sec.83%4" Colt
.40S&WGlaser Blue105gr.Frag14494906"5.34 sec.91%est.4" S&W
.40S&WCor-Bon135gr.JHP13005079.8"n/a96%4" S&W
.40S&WMagSafe Defender +P84gr.Frag>1800n/a13"n/a91%4" S&W
.40S&WFederal Hydra-Shok180gr.JHP95036115"8.32 sec.89%4" S&W
.40S&WFederal Hydra-Shok155gr.JHP114044813.3"n/a94%4" S&W
.40S&WRem.Golden Saber165gr.JHP115048512"n/a94%4" S&W
.40S&WRemington155gr.JHP1140447n/a8.40 sec.86%est.4" S&W
10mmWinchester175gr.STHP125060712.8"n/a92%4.25" S&W
10mmGlaser Blue105gr.Frag.1624615n/a7.60 sec.n/a4.25" S&W
10mmWinchester180gr.JHP105544515.5"n/a82%4.25" S&W
10mmFederal Hydra-Shok180gr.JHP98038315"n/a87%4.25" S&W
.41Mag.Winchester210gr.JHP130078917.5"n/a82%4" S&W
.41Mag.Winchester175gr.STHP125060814"n/a89%4" S&W
.44Spec.Remington240gr.LSWC851384n/an/a64%4" S&W
.44Spec.Cor-Bon +P180gr.JHP100040014.2"n/a86%4" S&W
.44Spec.MagSafe Defender92gr.Frag.1620n/a9.5"n/a92%est.4" S&W
.44Spec.Winchester200gr.STHP81929810.4"n/a75%4" S&W
.44Mag.MagSafe Urban115gr.Frag.1620n/a11"n/a93%est.4" S&W
.44Mag.Cor-Bon180gr. Urban120057615.3"n/a90%4" S&W
.44Mag.Eldorado Starfire240gr.JHP118074314.8"n/a91%4" S&W
.44Mag.Winchester210gr.STHP130178815.1"n/a90%4" S&W
.45ACPGlaser Blue140gr.Frag.1355571n/a4.72 sec.n/a5" Colt
.45ACPFederal Hydra-Shok230gr.JHP81936613.3"8.40 sec.94%5" Colt
.45ACPMagSafe Defender96gr.Frag.1660n/a10"n/a93%est.5" Colt
.45ACPFederal185gr.JHP100141113.6"9.24 sec.87%5" Colt
.45ACPCor-bon +P185gr.JHP115054411.3"n/a92%5" Colt
.45ACPFed, Rem, Win.230 FMJ83936027"13.84 sec.63%5" Colt
.45ACPCCI-Speer200gr.JHP9754229.4"n/a88%5" Colt
.45ACPRemington +P185gr.JHP112951917.1"7.98 sec.86%5" Colt
.45ColtWinchester225gr.STHP92042313.5"n/a74%4" S&W
.45ColtFederal225LHP90040519.5"n/a78%4" S&W
.45ColtCor-Bon +P200gr.JHP11005379"n/a92%4" S&W

Please Note: The above data is drawn from various sources including the book Handgun Stopping Power by Marshall and Sanow, and various articles in magazines such as Handguns.
For experienced shooters the headings of most of the columns above are probably self-explanatory. For everyone else:
  • "Caliber" is the common name of the cartridge tested; "Load" is the brand of ammunition tested
  • "Bullet" is the weight (in grains) and configuration (JHP, for instance, means jacketed hollow point) of the bullet
  • "MV" is the standard abbreviation for muzzle velocity
  • "ME" is the abbreviation for muzzle energy
  • "Penetration (10% gel)" is the measured penetration of the bullet when fired into a block of standard ordinance gelatin, which is used to simulate soft tissue
  • "AIT (goats at Strasbourg)" refers to a famous European experiment where a great many goats of the approximate size and cardio-vascular capacity of a human being were shot broadside through the lungs with a variety of handgun loads and the 'Average Incapacitation Time' (in seconds) from the shot until the animal's collapse was recorded
  • "One shot stop %" is the percentage of one shot stops in actual street shootings as culled from police records by Marshall and Sanow
  • "Test brl." means the length of the test pistol's barrel


Handgun Cartridge Power Chart - Condensed Version

chuckhawks.com
 
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rolibr24 said:
Agree, for me 9 is the smallest I care to carry. If I want small I really like my wife’s Sig 239 in .40. My primary CC is either a Glock 23 or a Commander size 1911.
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Yup-- all the "pocket" pistols seem to be those very weak calibers. A relative of mine is a former deputy sheriff and he carries a little .380 in his pocket everywhere. I want 9mm in my pocket, but to accomodate that the gun size just goes up. Not sure if any of the compact/subcompact 9's would really work as a pocket carry gun.
 
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