2nd and 3rd cam choice ?

N

NGL

Young grasshopper
Aug 8, 2017
38
2
Got my 5231RP-ZE dialed in now with the help of the forum.
It sits above my front door with a good view out to the street.

I have now wired Cat6 for both corners of my house and want to put 2 more cameras at each end.
The house is approx 65 long in the front and these 2 new cameras will go at each corner looking back towards the middle.

They will both be semi/shielded from the weather about a foot as they will sit below a popout on each side but have the chance to catch some rain and direct sunlight.

W/ that in mind, what would be a good choice for these cams?

I could go with more 5231's but thought this might be an opp to possibly bump up the MP's for some better street coverage? The 5231 shines at night but I still cantt get a good read on a plate or person in the day 30+ feet away and moving..

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
Any outdoor rated camera should be fine unsheltered, as long as you weather-seal the connectors right (http://a.co/7u2MKz0).

If you want to capture license plates 30+ feet away, you'll be better off with one of the higher zoom models. You should in fact be able to get away with a non-starlight model for license plate capture even at night, since license plates are highly reflective and many are actually illuminated by the vehicle.

Lots of bad stuff happens at night, so you really can't go wrong with more starlight cameras. That said, Dahua has some cheap 4MP cameras ($50-$90 USD) that were intended for the Chinese market but get sold all over anyway, and those are what I recommend to people on the tightest budgets. They do fine, and are a lot better than what you could get for that price not so many years ago. But if you can afford better, then I'd recommend a 2MP starlight or 8MP (4K) instead depending on the importance of daytime resolution vs night-time clarity.
 
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bp2008 said:
Lots of bad stuff happens at night, so you really can't go wrong with more starlight cameras. That said, Dahua has some cheap 4MP cameras ($50-$90 USD) that were intended for the Chinese market but get sold all over anyway, and those are what I recommend to people on the tightest budgets. They do fine, and are a lot better than what you could get for that price not so many years ago. But if you can afford better, then I'd recommend a 2MP starlight or 8MP (4K) instead depending on the importance of daytime resolution vs night-time clarity.
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Can you tell me the model of one of the $50 Dahua 4mp chinese models you are referring to. I use the Starlights myself but have some friends who are super cheap! :)
 
IPC-HDW4431C-A

If you search aliexpress for those, you'll find them around $50. I've never ordered one of these that cheap but I don't see why they wouldn't work. I have some I paid 70+ for. You can get them for $70ish from amazon.com :)
 
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bp2008 said:
IPC-HDW4431C-A

If you search aliexpress for those, you'll find them around $50. I've never ordered one of these that cheap but I don't see why they wouldn't work. I have some I paid 70+ for. You can get them for $70ish from amazon.com :)
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Aliexpress.com : Buy DaHua IPC HDW4431C A POE Network IR Mini Dome IP Camera With Built in Micro Full HD 1080P 4MP CCTV Camera from Reliable dome ip camera suppliers on XinRay Store

The Dahua 4Mp better than the Hikvision 4Mp?

Aliexpress.com : Buy HIKVISION DS 2CD3345 I 1080P Full HD 4MP Multi language CCTV Camera POE IPC ONVIF IP Camera replace DS 2CD2432WD I DS 2CD2345 I from Reliable ip camera suppliers on XinRay Store

Would the Dahua camera work on a Hik Nvr?

Would the Hik camera work on a Dahua Nvr?

Both an outstanding price.
 
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RBW said:
Aliexpress.com : Buy DaHua IPC HDW4431C A POE Network IR Mini Dome IP Camera With Built in Micro Full HD 1080P 4MP CCTV Camera from Reliable dome ip camera suppliers on XinRay Store

The Dahua 4Mp better than the Hikvision 4Mp?

Aliexpress.com : Buy HIKVISION DS 2CD3345 I 1080P Full HD 4MP Multi language CCTV Camera POE IPC ONVIF IP Camera replace DS 2CD2432WD I DS 2CD2345 I from Reliable ip camera suppliers on XinRay Store

Would the Dahua camera work on a Hik Nvr?

Would the Hik camera work on a Dahua Nvr?

Both an outstanding price.
Click to expand...
I've ordered from that vendor (XinRay Store) before. Good service and communication, but expect long delivery times, like six to eight weeks. This is very typical with economy packet-shipping from China. One hint with the Dahua 4431C - don't coil the Ethernet pigtail up in the box behind the camera. It tends to cause bad delay and dropout problems with your Ethernet connection. Be certain to extend the pigtail straight out behind/through the box, if possible.
 
Seems like there is a newer v2 model of this cheap Dahua cam for about $5 more. Has anyone experience with the newer one? From a quick look at the specs I noticed it mentions h.265 compression also. Don't think the older one had that? Do either have an sdcard slot inside? Didnt see it listed.

AliExpress - Buy directly from China
 
RBW said:
Is the fixed lens Starlight real worth paying Almost 3x as much for?

The better night image really that good?
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It is not 3x. It is just over double. But night time is for sure better. Also it is not a Chinese hacked firmware which has some advantages also.
 
Spudz said:
It is not 3x. It is just over double. But night time is for sure better. Also it is not a Chinese hacked firmware which has some advantages also.
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The cheaper camera Chinese?

Either way % wise it's one hell of a price rise. I'd want 25% improvement in night vision at least to justify the extra $$.
 
RBW said:
The cheaper camera Chinese?

Either way % wise it's one hell of a price rise. I'd want 25% improvement in night vision at least to justify the extra $$.
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Yes. The cheap cams are around $50 and the fixed starlights are around $120 so you can do the math.

I only own the Starlights cams so can't comment on how much of a difference there is but I am sure there are some here that have both and can chime in. I will probably order some of the cheapies for my customers who are cheap an won't spent the extra. But I prefer to use the Starlights.
 
RBW said:
Is the fixed lens Starlight real worth paying Almost 3x as much for?

The better night image really that good?

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Hi RBW

Also remember the body of the cheap Chinese market camera you're mentioning has a plastic "holder" in which you just move the camera ball to whatever angle you want.

The dahua starlight turrents, and other more expensive dahua starlight models have all metal body components ( ball and holder ) and you have a set screw which secures the view.

In some installations / locations having a better metal body maybe better due to vandalism risk.
 
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RBW said:
Is the fixed lens Starlight real worth paying Almost 3x as much for?

The better night image really that good?

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Hi RBW,

So extending the question:
Is a fixed lens 2MP Dahua starlight worth 2.4x the Chinese market 4MP dahua camera?
Is a varifocal lens 2MP Dahua starlight worth 3x the Chinese market 4MP dahua camera?

Answer of course really depends on the threat, risk factor, value of assets "protected", available funding, greatest threat during low light or normal light conditions?

For me, having COLOR information during low light conditions ( by forcing a starlight into color mode at night ) is a critical additional data point which can significantly help identify suspects and vehicles. You may not need to have all your cameras capture this information - however accurate color imho is worth the extra $70-120 per camera covering choke points for both pedestrians and vehicles.
 
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Thanks you for the replies. A lot of variables to consider.

You can certainly find yourself over thinking on which camera to buy as the temptation to go for the next camera up is always there leaving you like a dog chasing its tail and getting nowhere.

I'd really like to see how a IPC-HDW4431C-A compares next to a IPC-HDW4231EM-AS in total darkness.

 
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I'd say the 4431C-A is a decent performer with little-to-no-light and using its own IR.
I'd rate the 4231EM-AS as a fantastic performer in the same conditions.

I have one of the 4231EM-AS on my driveway, and two of the 4431C-A for my back door and back yard. To best describe the differences between them, it's the all-metal construction and amount of usable detail provided by the 2MP Starlight camera. The non-starlight 4MP camera doesn't provide twice the amount of usable detail, it's just more noisy/fuzzy. I really wish I had one of each covering the same scene, but that's not possible. I hope my description helps.
 
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RBW said:
Thanks you for the replies. A lot of variables to consider.

You can certainly find yourself over thinking on which camera to buy as the temptation to go for the next camera up is always there leaving you like a dog chasing its tail and getting nowhere.

I'd really like to see how a IPC-HDW4431C-A compares next to a IPC-HDW4231EM-AS in total darkness.
Click to expand...

That's how I felt before I found this forum and during the beginning of my research for a Camera.

Thankfully due to numerous great contributors here I was able to narrow my selections down.

Worked this way for me:
Need: "I need something good for low light conditions, my Arlo and other cameras suck. Need it ASAP"

Options: Hikvision vs Dahua products.
Dahua came out with starlight line before Hikvision and during the time I needed it.
Choice picked: Dahua

Reviewed all sorts of Dahua cameras.
Chinese market cameras appeared to have more issues from users here on this forum.
To reduce my headache and increase speed to deploy I went for the international models.
Choice picked: International Starlight camera models

NVR:
Options: Hikvision NVR, Dahua NVR, Blue Iris PC + PoE switch ( NVR options - with and w/o PoE ports + PoE switch )
Picked Dahua NVR w/POE to speed up deployment of my system. ( in a hurry due to threats / risks )

Wiring:
Took a long time, used up all my spare time to do.

IF you can take the time to deploy your system you certainly will feel even more like a dog chasing your tail - sooner or later you should just pick something and try it out.

What is more important:
Lower cost vs. TIme you spend?
Day vs. Low Light?
Lower cost vs. Physical Strength of camera / vandal resistant?
Remote access of your camera vs. Time you spend?
.
.

also with regards to color at night:

3 image captures of the same suspect - which one do you think is most valuable?
HOA Approvals for camera installation
 
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One other thing to throw out there, if you buy one of the Chinese market cameras I would recommend installing the modified firmware posted on this forum Dahua Firmware Mod Kit + Modded Dahua Firmware. You may want to check that the model you intend to purchase is supported by one of the versions posted. I am a little bit distrustful of the firmware shipped on these Chinese market cameras because they are modified to have English language prompts, meaning the seller or someone could have inserted a backdoor or who knows what.

I've got one of the 4431C-A cameras that I bought last year and finally got mounted about a month ago, happy with it so far. I also have an older 4421C Chinese market camera that I've had mounted outside for about 2 years and it's still working flawlessly as well. Most recently I got a IPC-HFW4431R-Z which ran me about $75 and has 4x zoom. I haven't mounted it outside yet, so I can't really comment on it's performance but that might be a good option if you want to start out cheap with something varifocal and don't care as much about low light sensitivity.

A lot of people really push for the Starlight cameras despite the lower resolution, and if low light is important they're absolutely right. My thought process though was that a camera like the Starlight varifocal 5231R-Z runs about $170, while the Chinese 4431R-Z runs $75 and is also varifocal, I can literally buy 2 of these for the cost of one 5231R-Z. Where I intend to put the 4431R-Z has outdoor lighting, so I'm not very concerned about low light performance, so I'm pretty confident the cheap camera will meet my needs. There are some differences also, the 5231R-Z is a turret style vs the 4431R-Z being a bullet style. I think the 5231 can take a microSD card, the 4431R-Z cannot. The 4431R-Z also has no audio capability (not even via external mic). So there are trade-offs. In some ways you get what you pay for, just depends what your needs are.
 
Ive narrowed my choices down to the following due to they are the same form factor and look as the new 5231 starlight I mounted at the front door:

ipc-hdw5431r-ze
or
ipc-hdw5631r-ze

Now trying to figure out what the real life comparison of 4 to 6 MP is..
 
Be aware of high resolution cams for night view. At night with wide view angle and distances below endless focus you will be off focus (the nearer the more visible). Fixed focus cams doesn´t have this problem. The problem can be solved by a firmware modification or a http api script triggering autofocus, but its now for a half year in progress :confused:, my hope is low, that it will be fixed especially for low cost ones.

A hdw4431em-as can perform at night very similar like a hdw4231em-as is you have enough light source (white light or ir). It depends on your installation, the internal ir spot is not really suitable for 50m (60m). If moving objects are watched, you need much more ir power to have no motion bluer or to get a better IR coverage over the hole image. Although the single IR Led ones are doing a really good job for nearer distances till 5m, better than 2 or 4 ir led ones, this ones has often a spot in the center of the picture, when using wide view angles.
 
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