$5,000 budget for Car Wash - Please help me spend it

[Theckie]

Hello all,

I have posted here before about my car wash and the desire to get it on camera. After being vandalized several times recently, I am unable to put this off any longer.

Its pretty simple (well not so much for me), I have saved $5K and willing to invest it into a surveillance system. I have been researching for quite some time and now reached analysis paralysis.

Goals/ like to have?

• Rack mount on the wall - compact, the maintenance room gets wet, warm, and cold
• storage capacity >=32TB - I can start off with 32 or work my way up
• store for 30 days- the wash is not visited often
• 12 - 16 cameras for different purposes - license plates, faces, IR
• POE+ switch, farthest camera will be 200ft/61m
• NAS - I think I need one for the >=32TB storage
• Server - spec'ed for Blue Iris and gets along with others
• Rack power supply for the server rack
• Budget can include/exclude cables, conduit, tools, and misc
• Purchase/acquire from members of this community, new or used

The list is daunting and the project is critical. Thanks for your input in advance.

 

[mat200]

Hello all,

I have posted here before about my car wash and the desire to get it on camera. After being vandalized several times recently, I am unable to put this off any longer.

Its pretty simple (well not so much for me), I have saved $5K and willing to invest it into a surveillance system. I have been researching for quite some time and now reached analysis paralysis.

Goals/ like to have?

• Rack mount on the wall - compact, the maintenance room gets wet, warm, and cold
• storage capacity >=32TB - I can start off with 32 or work my way up
• store for 30 days- the wash is not visited often
• 12 - 16 cameras for different purposes - license plates, faces, IR
• POE+ switch, farthest camera will be 200ft/61m
• NAS - I think I need one for the >=32TB storage
• Server - spec'ed for Blue Iris and gets along with others
• Rack power supply for the server rack
• Budget can include/exclude cables, conduit, tools, and misc
• Purchase/acquire from members of this community, new or used

The list is daunting and the project is critical. Thanks for your input in advance.

Welcome @Theckie

This is a problem:

• Rack mount on the wall - compact, the maintenance room gets wet, warm, and cold

Can you find a better location. Wet is a real problem...

 

[Theckie]

Let me expand on that... Wet in the sense that if a pipe bursts... like from the freeze we just had, I would like it off the ground. I can wall mount away from incidental spray.

 

[mat200]

Let me expand on that... Wet in the sense that if a pipe bursts... like from the freeze we just had, I would like it off the ground. I can wall mount away from incidental spray.

HI @Theckie

Perhaps

• a rackmount 4U cased PC + HDDs running Blue Iris
• POE switch ( I like HP switches )
• Good turret cameras + junction boxes and conduit runs

If you like to build your own PC.. perhaps a case like this:

Rosewill RSV-L4000U 4U Server Chassis Rackmount Case | 8 3.5" HDD Bays, 3 5.25" Devices | E-ATX Compatible | 5 Front 120mm Fans, 2 Rear 80mm Fans | USB 3.0, 2.0 | Front Panel Lock | Silver/Black - Newegg.com

Buy Rosewill RSV-L4000U 4U Server Chassis Rackmount Case | 8 3.5" HDD Bays, 3 5.25" Devices | E-ATX Compatible | 5 Front 120mm Fans, 2 Rear 80mm Fans | USB 3.0, 2.0 | Front Panel Lock | Silver/Black with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

Otherwise.. hmm.. most of us are using used business class PCs... those typically do not have enough HDD space...

 

[Theckie]

HI @Theckie

Perhaps

• a rackmount 4U cased PC + HDDs running Blue Iris
• POE switch ( I like HP switches )
• Good turret cameras + junction boxes and conduit runs

If you like to build your own PC.. perhaps a case like this:

Rosewill RSV-L4000U 4U Server Chassis Rackmount Case | 8 3.5" HDD Bays, 3 5.25" Devices | E-ATX Compatible | 5 Front 120mm Fans, 2 Rear 80mm Fans | USB 3.0, 2.0 | Front Panel Lock | Silver/Black - Newegg.com

Buy Rosewill RSV-L4000U 4U Server Chassis Rackmount Case | 8 3.5" HDD Bays, 3 5.25" Devices | E-ATX Compatible | 5 Front 120mm Fans, 2 Rear 80mm Fans | USB 3.0, 2.0 | Front Panel Lock | Silver/Black with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

Otherwise.. hmm.. most of us are using used business class PCs... those typically do not have enough HDD space...

What a novel thought! I could build a computer in a rackmount server case. (I didn't even know that existed!! ) And this omits a need for a dedicated NAS.

 

[samplenhold]

What a novel thought! I could build a computer in a rackmount server case. (I didn't even know that existed!! ) And this omits a need for a dedicated NAS.

If I had it to do over again, I would have done a rack mount PC case. I would make sure that you get a case with enough HD bays. Mine only has three and I wish I could add at least two more. Make sure that the case is big enough for the cooler that you intend to use. Read the reviews. The one that @mat200 linked to has a good review and mentions about his cooler being too high to fit.

Make sure you get a large enough rack to hold everything and can be added to for future expansion. There are wall mount racks that would keep everything off the floor.

When you say it gets hot, how hot does it get? Cold would not be a concern, but hot, humid air could be a problem. You might run a dehumidifier if needed to cut down on rust and corrosion.

 

[Theckie]

If I had it to do over again, I would have done a rack mount PC case. I would make sure that you get a case with enough HD bays. Mine only has three and I wish I could add at least two more. Make sure that the case is big enough for the cooler that you intend to use. Read the reviews. The one that @mat200 linked to has a good review and mentions about his cooler being too high to fit.

Make sure you get a large enough rack to hold everything and can be added to for future expansion. There are wall mount racks that would keep everything off the floor.

When you say it gets hot, how hot does it get? Cold would not be a concern, but hot, humid air could be a problem. You might run a dehumidifier if needed to cut down on rust and corrosion.

I am unsure how hot it gets. Though will be sure to be mindful of it this summer.
Below is how I've divvied the budget. Any thoughts on improvements?

Equipment list
$700 12u Server rack, NEMA
$75 Tripp Power strip
$200 APC Battery Backup
$200 Mounting hardware
$500 Wiring FTP, Crimper, Ends
$150 Cisco Switch - WS-C3750X-24P-S 1G or 10gE
$150 Rackmount Server Case
$500-$1000 Computer TBD?
$200 Cisco Router - other brand?
2-4 x $190 Surveillance HDD Purple – 8TB
$1200-$1500 on first round of Cameras

 

[samplenhold]

$700 for a rack seems very high to me. $200 should be plenty.

Do you need a router? Are you going to have internet access? If so, then the ISP will provide a modem/router. If no internet, then you do not need a router. The POE switch will be all that you need.

Figure on about $200 per cam. Some could be less, some could be a little more.

Not sure why you need a power strip. Your switch and PC will be plugged into the UPS.

 

[Theckie]

$700 for a rack seems very high to me. $200 should be plenty.

Do you need a router? Are you going to have internet access? If so, then the ISP will provide a modem/router. If no internet, then you do not need a router. The POE switch will be all that you need.

Figure on about $200 per cam. Some could be less, some could be a little more.

Not sure why you need a power strip. Your switch and PC will be plugged into the UPS.

The case would be NEMA 12 to keep the dust out, overkill?
I guess I do not need a router or strip. Good puts.
KK, $200 avg/camera.
Thanks!

Equipment list
$700 12u Server rack, NEMA
$200 APC Battery Backup
$200 Mounting hardware
$500 Wiring FTP, Crimper, Ends
$150 Switch
$150 Server Case
$500-$1000 Computer
2-4 x $190 Surveillance HDD Purple – 8TB WD82PURZ
$2500 12 Cameras




As a general question for the computer, could I in theory transfer the parts out of a Dell Optiplex 7060 into a server case? Assuming I happen to match the motherboard sizes.

 

[samplenhold]

The case would be NEMA 12 to keep the dust out, overkill?

OK, if it is dust tight, how are you going to get the heat generated by the PC and all of the other components out? Cooling will be your problem. I do not think that dust will be. But that is your call as you know the room and it is your money on the line, not mine.

 

[samplenhold]

As a general question for the computer, could I in theory transfer the parts out of a Dell Optiplex 7060 into a server case? Assuming I happen to match the motherboard sizes.

Tower of SFF? In general, these proprietary builds use there own motherboards that may or may not be a standard size, like an ATX. They usually do not have extra SATA connections for more than two drives. They ususally do not have unused PCI-E slots if you need one. You might be stuck with the power supply it has if the connectors are not standard. You may not be able to power more HDs than what is already in the case and the cords may not reach in the new enclosure. I had this problem trying to just upgrade components once so I never did it again. Things might have changed nowadays.

 

[Flintstone61]

Yeah, I think you could save $ taking a used Dell or Hp sff, and pulling the processor, ram and other stuff and toss it in a Motherboard with 4-6 SATA ports. and put it in your rack PC. cost less to buy the whole shitaroo then to buy a Processor and the ram. I got an HP Elitedesk with an i5-8500 and 8 GB ram for $325. nice machine but lacks a couple more Sata ports on the motherboard. Ok for now. It fits nicely on my 2U rack shelf.

 

[Flintstone61]

I ran 12 Cameras on a Dell optiplex 7020 Core-i7 3770s. Other guys are doing well with core i7- 6th gen Processors. Fenderman says the 8th Gen cpu's coupled with the DDR4 are a significant upgrade.
I did not have a surveillance drive but had some 6TB WD blues laying around. Worked ok. Had i knew enough about tuning the system, I might still be using it that Dell. I think the Surveillance drive i have now (8TB WD Purple) is performing snappier than the WDBlue drive. (it's a 74 unit Condo) edit..I'm running a similar switch..WS-C3560X-24P-S happy with it.

[TD][/TD]

[TD]More guys will probably post ideas. [/TD]​

 

[Theckie]

I think you could save $

Agreed. I think the math does makes sense to chop up a used desktop and move key components to the other form factor. The fans, power supply, motherboard could be upgraded too.

 

[brianegge]

I’d start with a rack mount nvr like this one:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/801969315-USE/dahua_technology_dhi_nvr58a32_4ks2_6tb_pro_series_32_channel_12mp.html

You can load it up to 64TB.

For business, I’d buy all Amcrest labeled cameras, because they have decent support. A small monitor and internet router supporting vpn would be recommended.

 

[VorlonFrog]

Plan to run two or more cameras to 'choke points', those locations where thieves/vandals are pretty much required to pass. If two cameras, one facing in each direction with significant overlap in the middle. If three cameras, one at very close range for 100% facial recognition and two at wider ranges, again overlapping. This means two or three Cat-6 runs to these locations, as well.

 

[Theckie]

Here is the latest equipment list. I just came back from a Craigslist purchase that I think I got a sweet deal and great start on hardware.

Equipment list

1. $700 12u Server rack SRW12RSNEMA
2. $200 Cyberpower OR700LCDRM1U Battery Backup
3. $200 Mounting hardware
4. $500 Wiring FTP, Crimper, Ends
5. $150 Cisco Switch - WS-C3750X-24P-S 1G or 10gE
6. $120 Rosewill RSV-L4000 Server Chassis
7. $150 EVGA P2 Power supply
8. $300 Craigslist pick up:
   • Rampage V extreme motherboard
   • Intel i7-5960X
   • H115 corsair liquid cooler 240mm radiator
   • Adata 64gb ddr4 2800 mhz ram
   • Samsung 256gb 950 pro m.2
9. $200 Nvidia Turing 1650 SUPER GPU
10. 2-4 x $190 Surveillance HDD Purple – 8TB WD82PURZ
11. $2800 on first round of Cameras

again overlapping

Attached is the latest draft of how I think I would place the cameras and the server rack. I think i have stated to consider/understand overlapping. Feel free to offer more inputs! I will start to procure the computer first and do all the testing at home. Then install and test final camera locations. Run conduit and CAT cables. Should be done under 6 months.

I’d buy all Amcrest labeled cameras

Amcrest over Hikvision? Please tell me more about your preference over Amcrest. The NVR for $1,100, I can recreate that with bits and pieces and have a full functioning computer; perhaps better working AI too. Whereas NVR is a dedicated funciton.

 

[Flintstone61]

Sounds like your building a pc over an Nvr. Eagles line, “Every form of refuge has its price.” Both solutions offer something. Depends on your needs. That Nvr listed above that will handle 64 TB is interesting.
In my case, when I’m off site, the Old dumb DVR’s just do their job. Sometimes my BI nvr has hiccups probably the cameras more than the BI. certain cameras in BI decide they’re going to not detect motion or the Cpu has gone 100% because one thing or another.
Right now I’m wondering if BI is going to be stable through my absence this weekend, have had 3 instances of 100% cpu in 14 days. I think i got it now.
Meanwhile the 2 analog DVR’s just work.
Somedays I wonder if should try a IP nvr, for stability vs features.
Every use case scenario has different needs.

 

[mat200]

Fyi - most of us are no longer considering older CPU generations, and looking for gen 6+ for intel i5/i7 CPUs.

 

[Flintstone61]

Fyi - most of us are no longer considering older CPU generations, and looking for gen 6+ for intel i5/i7 CPUs.

Yeah that 7020 is quite a bit heavier and hotter than the i-5 8500 Hp i put in its place. energy efficiency gains plus percormance gains. Percormance? Performance lol....It's a 3rd generation to 8th generation jump plus 4K support.