Advice on budget PoE recorder / NVR

[duonas]

Hello guys!
I am looking to buy a setup of cameras mainly for outdoor surveillance. I was considering (for probably last half-year) cheaper chinese kits from aliexpress, that cost arount 350-450 EUR for a kit of 8 PoE cameras. But I guess you get what u get, and u can't upgrade these kits, or change one broken cam with another.
I had an impression that Dahua or Hikvision setup would be too expensive (same 8 cameras PoE setup would be over or around 1000 EUR).
Then I found this forum, and this thread (Cameras for house (in/outdoor) recommendations needed) which gave me good points to consider - for outdoor/night to choose Starlight camera. And better to avoid cheap chinese crap. (I also saw one review on aliexpress where camera footage seems OK at daytime, but at nighttime distance is very short and visibility is mainly on center, but sides are all grey and foggy.)

So I decided to buy Dahua cameras (maybe I'll consider Hikvision too), I will go as suggested here (Needing Budget Friendly and Effective Outdoor Setup) small first (maybe 1-2 or 3 cameras) and build on top of that according to my needs.
Now my main needs/restrictions are:

• Outdoor surveilance (would like to get as long visible distance as possible also at night);
• I prefer PoE, because that is just one cable, I suppose it's easier to debug if something doesn't work;
• Low budget. As you can see I was looking at chinese 400 EUR kits, so I would like to spend something around this. I suppose for same price I would get less cameras, but in furute would add more of them eventually;
• I want to expand this setup to around 8 cameras over long run. I'm thinking about 16CH NVR in case I need more than 8 cameras.

Can you advise me what NVR I should buy, knowing my requirements (budget, 8 or more CHannels, outdoor cameras, probably Dahua brand or compatible)?

I'm asking this about NVR because I can find 16 CH NVRs for 100-150 EUR as well as 1000+ EUR. Don't see any big differences :/

I think main points to consider, also do's and don't's would be most helpful, and maybe some link to actual NVR with price. Something like this post (Cameras for house (in/outdoor) recommendations needed).

 

[isuee94]

I'd strongly recommend looking into Blue Iris. With a PC you can pick up for $200 and the $60 software, you'd have a very capable NVR with smarter motion triggers / AI motion triggers.

 

[duonas]

In case we started a discussion about turning PC into NVR, I was thinking about this, too.
Is it possible to buy a PC and install it with some Linux or something, that would basically be NVR software/distro. I would attach a network switch to that PC and attach all my IPCs to that switch. Would this give me reliable NVR system? What would be CPU/RAM requirements for using up to 8 2MP/5MP cameras?

 

[duonas]

Also, what software can I install in such PC (I suppose it would be linux distro, so more lightweight than Windows and free). Can I find such sophisticated software for free?

P.S. I am only planning to have this CCTV setup offline, because there is no internet connection where all these cameras have to go.

 

[isuee94]

Blue Iris runs on Windows only. It's not free, but at $60 it's pretty cheap. It can run on a reasonably priced used or refirb PC.

 

[mat200]

Hello guys!
I am looking to buy a setup of cameras mainly for outdoor surveillance. I was considering (for probably last half-year) cheaper chinese kits from aliexpress, that cost arount 350-450 EUR for a kit of 8 PoE cameras. But I guess you get what u get, and u can't upgrade these kits, or change one broken cam with another.
I had an impression that Dahua or Hikvision setup would be too expensive (same 8 cameras PoE setup would be over or around 1000 EUR).
Then I found this forum, and this thread (Cameras for house (in/outdoor) recommendations needed) which gave me good points to consider - for outdoor/night to choose Starlight camera. And better to avoid cheap chinese crap. (I also saw one review on aliexpress where camera footage seems OK at daytime, but at nighttime distance is very short and visibility is mainly on center, but sides are all grey and foggy.)

So I decided to buy Dahua cameras (maybe I'll consider Hikvision too), I will go as suggested here (Needing Budget Friendly and Effective Outdoor Setup) small first (maybe 1-2 or 3 cameras) and build on top of that according to my needs.
Now my main needs/restrictions are:

• Outdoor surveilance (would like to get as long visible distance as possible also at night);
• I prefer PoE, because that is just one cable, I suppose it's easier to debug if something doesn't work;
• Low budget. As you can see I was looking at chinese 400 EUR kits, so I would like to spend something around this. I suppose for same price I would get less cameras, but in furute would add more of them eventually;
• I want to expand this setup to around 8 cameras over long run. I'm thinking about 16CH NVR in case I need more than 8 cameras.

Can you advise me what NVR I should buy, knowing my requirements (budget, 8 or more CHannels, outdoor cameras, probably Dahua brand or compatible)?

I'm asking this about NVR because I can find 16 CH NVRs for 100-150 EUR as well as 1000+ EUR. Don't see any big differences :/

I think main points to consider, also do's and don't's would be most helpful, and maybe some link to actual NVR with price. Something like this post (Cameras for house (in/outdoor) recommendations needed).

Welcome @duonas

I highly recommend you read the cliff notes before making any purchase.

There's a lot of garbage out there that are very affordable that you want to avoid.

Then look at what you functionally want to achieve with security cameras.

Then look at cameras which come close to meeting that.

Then look at your budget and start making compromises.

 

[samplenhold]

Things to consider, that impact costs.

NVR considerations:
If you get an NVR, most come with POE ports. If you get an inexpensive one that does not have POE ports, you will have to supply power to the POE cams. Either by using a POE switch, POE injectors, or a separate power supply.
Some NVRs come with a hard drive for storage. Some require you to purchase a hard drive.
You will need a keyboard, mouse and display screen for the NVR, or you might be able to log in to it with a laptop or desktop PC.

PC and monitoring software considerations:
If you go the route of using software on a PC, you will have to use an ethernet switch, so it might as well be a POE switch. Simplifies the poser requirement. Most people here, myself included, use Blue Iris.
Even if you get a decent used/refurbished PC with Windows 10 on it already, chances are you will have to buy a hard drive for storage.

Other costs besides the cams:
You will need cable. If you buy in bulk, which is cheaper and allows you to customize your runs, you will need RJ45 plugs, boots, and a cable plug crimper.

All of this is explained in the Cliff Notes and the WIKI that @mat200 mentioned. See also the thread below:

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

You really need to make a plan. Look at your house from the perspective of where bad guys might attempt to do bad things. Like front door, garage/driveway, etc. Then think about what you would like to be able to see in those areas. FOV, overview, face shots for ID, etc. Only then can you decide what cams and how many you need.

 

[duonas]

I've read the Cliff Notes, that's a lot of useful information, thanks for giving me directions.
But here comes a few more questions:
1. What is the difference between chinese/international/US firmware in dahua cameras? Is it just language or are there any functional differences?
2. Let's assume I buy a 8pcs PoE camera kit (with NVR and HDD) from aliexpress for ~400 EUR. I will use it outdoors and offline (no need to remote access). What will be the actual shortcomings that I will face with these cameras, compared to getting a Dahua (debranded/no dahua sticker) Starlight set (NVR ~300EUR + 4 IPCs ( <= 13mm vari-focal) ~150 EUR each + 4TB HDD ~ 100 EUR + CAT6 cable ~100 EUR = 1100...1200 EUR in TOTAL)?
(here some Aliexpress cheap kits examples that I was considering:
..... (US $256.32 19% OFF|ANNKE 4K Ultra HD 8CH DVR Kit H.265 CCTV Camera Security System 8MP CCTV System IR Outdoor Night Vision Video Surveillance Kits|Surveillance System| - AliExpress)
..... (US $152.76 22% OFF|SANNCE 8CH 1080P FHD POE Security System H.264+ 5MP NVR With 4X 6X 8X 2MP Outdoor Weatherproof Audio Record IP Cameras CCTV Kit|Surveillance System| - AliExpress)
..... (US $129.97 53% OFF|Gadinan H.265 8CH 5MP POE NVR Kit Security Face Detection CCTV System Audio AI 5MP IP Camera Outdoor P2P Video Surveillance Set|Surveillance System| - AliExpress)
..... (US $264.6 58% OFF|H.View 16CH Surveillance System 8 1080P Outdoor Security Camera 16CH CCTV DVR Kit Video Surveillance iPhone Android Remote View|cameras camera|camera outdoorcamera 1080p - AliExpress))

Thanks for advices!

 

[samplenhold]

I do not have the time to compare and contrast each of these systems for you. If you absorbed the info in the Cliff Notes and Newbie Starter guide, you should be looking at the specs of the cams.

For two of these, they are not IP cams. They are the old BNC connectors. Only one stated what size sensor it was, a 1/2.9" which is small. None of these will give you good low light color performance. Some do not come with cable. Usually the kits that come with cable are not solid copper. They usually are copper-clad aluminum, which is bad for cam quality.

These kits are all fairly wide angel lens cams. They are 2.8 or 3.6mm. It is smart to design a system with cams at each location based on what you need, not what the cam is.

Three of these had basically the same add and shared the same pictures. None of these pictures are from the cams they are selling, trust me on that. Any add that shows pages of claims but no real specs is a red flag for a bad system. And all of the user reviews are 5 stars?

You will get what you pay for, or rather you will not get what you don't pay for.

 

[duonas]

Thanks, you confirmed pretty much what I was expecting (but I don't have actual experience with this), and thanks for commenting on actual hardware specs.
Probably not worth wasting even 200-300 EUR on a system that I will later throw away.

 

[duonas]

About sensor size, I cannot find anything different than 1/2.8". E.g. I'm looking at this camera in Aliexpress shop of our forum member Andy (I found link in Cliff Notes).
It's Dahua camera for 111 EUR and it has same 1/2.9" sensor. I suppose I'm looking for as big a sensor as I can get/afford? US $125.25 5% OFF|IPC T2231T ZS 2MP Starlight WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera 2.7~13.5mm Focal Length Replace the IPC HDW2231R ZS,free DHL shipping|Surveillance Cameras| - AliExpress
But they are all same :/

 

[sdkid]

About sensor size, I cannot find anything different than 1/2.8". E.g. I'm looking at this camera in Aliexpress shop of our forum member Andy (I found link in Cliff Notes).
It's Dahua camera for 111 EUR and it has same 1/2.9" sensor. I suppose I'm looking for as big a sensor as I can get/afford? US $125.25 5% OFF|IPC T2231T ZS 2MP Starlight WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera 2.7~13.5mm Focal Length Replace the IPC HDW2231R ZS,free DHL shipping|Surveillance Cameras| - AliExpress
But they are all same :/

Andy has the larger sensor (1/1.8) in a 4mp turret for about $155 or so $US (check with him on that).
Don't discount the 2mp cams that have Sony Starvis sensors close to that 1/3 size-- many on the forum confirm they are solid performers. There is a good list of them in the WIKI. Andy has a varifocal zoom 2mp for about $125US....
Blue Iris software--- you will love it!

 

[looney2ns]

Read the many, many reviews of cameras posted here.
Study all of this.

 

[mat200]

I've read the Cliff Notes, that's a lot of useful information, thanks for giving me directions.
But here comes a few more questions:
1. What is the difference between chinese/international/US firmware in dahua cameras? Is it just language or are there any functional differences?
2. Let's assume I buy a 8pcs PoE camera kit (with NVR and HDD) from aliexpress for ~400 EUR. I will use it outdoors and offline (no need to remote access). What will be the actual shortcomings that I will face with these cameras, compared to getting a Dahua (debranded/no dahua sticker) Starlight set (NVR ~300EUR + 4 IPCs ( <= 13mm vari-focal) ~150 EUR each + 4TB HDD ~ 100 EUR + CAT6 cable ~100 EUR = 1100...1200 EUR in TOTAL)?
(here some Aliexpress cheap kits examples that I was considering:
..... (US $256.32 19% OFF|ANNKE 4K Ultra HD 8CH DVR Kit H.265 CCTV Camera Security System 8MP CCTV System IR Outdoor Night Vision Video Surveillance Kits|Surveillance System| - AliExpress)
..... (US $152.76 22% OFF|SANNCE 8CH 1080P FHD POE Security System H.264+ 5MP NVR With 4X 6X 8X 2MP Outdoor Weatherproof Audio Record IP Cameras CCTV Kit|Surveillance System| - AliExpress)
..... (US $129.97 53% OFF|Gadinan H.265 8CH 5MP POE NVR Kit Security Face Detection CCTV System Audio AI 5MP IP Camera Outdoor P2P Video Surveillance Set|Surveillance System| - AliExpress)
..... (US $264.6 58% OFF|H.View 16CH Surveillance System 8 1080P Outdoor Security Camera 16CH CCTV DVR Kit Video Surveillance iPhone Android Remote View|cameras camera|camera outdoorcamera 1080p - AliExpress))

Thanks for advices!

Hi @duonas

Are you on a super tight budget?

A lot of the super cheap kits are problematic in terms of quality of image, quality of cables, quality of firmware, quality of support,...

 

[samplenhold]

About sensor size, I cannot find anything different than 1/2.8".

The 2MP 1/2.8" sensor is better than a 5MP on a 1/2.9" sensor. It is not just the sensor size, but also how many pixels are shoved onto that sensor that impacts low light color performance. There is a balance that one needs to find for their specific need between megapixel resolution and sensor size. The more pixels on a specific sensor, the less light each pixel sees. So if you have no need for night color, then a higher MP cam with a small sensor would be fine. But most perps operate at night and move around while doing their special crime. For me, while getting a face shot for ID could be done in B&W with IR, I prefer to have color at night so that I get a good face shot and description of clothing and vehicles. But I have a lot of light around my house.

The top dog in the Dahua prosumer line now is the 5442 series which has 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor. Gives great low light color video. But that comes at a price.

I actually have the T2231T-ZS-S2. It is a good cam. I am going to use it on my front pourch. Here is a screen shot and sample video of me testing placement and night color performance. Note that I have good lighting on my porch. The daylight shots are at two different FOV's. I was trying out camera placement.



The video is at night while I was cleaning up after testing placement of a couple of cams. Make sure you set the player to HD. Also realize that I have not done any attempt to get the proper exposure settings in this video. It is just with the defaults. I will set it up properly once it is installed.