ADVICE PLEASE. New system build HIK or Bi (12cam 4mp)

[JasonS]

Hi all (fenderman I am building a new system for my home. 12 cams, 4mp, mostly outdoor cams.
Once programmed, it will be controlled primarily from my Cell phone, so the app is super important.

At my office I use a 32cam hikvision system which works fine but never fell in love with its user interface. The night vision is never impressive and the whole system lacks any cool factor I would expect in 2017.

I am looking for better cameras then hikvision, but still stay in the $150 per cam range.

I already purchased the new hikvision DS-7616NI-i2-16p 4K NVR, but now second guessing my decision once i heard about blue iris on this forum. (i can sell it on ebay if needed)

I am starting to learn about a dedicated i7 computer or maybe a ESXI blade server, but there is so much to learn in such a short time as i need to build ASAP.

So my question is... if my Budget is $1k (not including cameras) what would you recommend...

Thanks all

 

[fenderman]

if night vision is important to you, look at the dahua starlight turrets..there is a thread on them..
you can buy an i7-6700 dell or hp business machine for 500..search the forum for optiplex and elitedesk.

 

[JasonS]

Thanks fenderman... computer over blade server? I want something that will last 5 years minimum.

thanks

 

[fenderman]

blade server is a complete waste of money...I am running a bunch of optiplex/elitedesk machines 24/7 no issues.

 

[cornholio]

as a noob i learnt from the folk on this forum that one needn't spend too much on nvr machine. $400 buys a decent i7 6th gen PC with perhaps sata hdd and ddr3 ram. of course thats not what I did. i shelled out another $250 to get 16gb ddr4 and a 256gb nvme. not really value additions if all this machine has to do is run blue iris. i hear you don't even need 6th gen. an earlier generation will do fine too. just that a newer generation is likely to consume lesser power as the cpu utilization is lesser. my machine runs blue iris with 4 cams at 15% cpu util and 1gb mem util. perhaps someone can comment on how much more cpu util one can expect with 12 cams, but i hear its definitely not linear growth.

another system worth looking into is the xprotect if you want to further reduce the costs. i did and utimately settled on the convenience and comfort of blue iris for $70 ($60 for the pc software and $10 for the iPhone app). spend that extra money on good cameras and perhaps some networking gear.

 

[JasonS]

I really want the best user experience with regards to cellphone app... so if blue iris is better than hikvision, then i am sold.

If there is something better than blue iris without a major cost factor, i would consider that as well.

As far as computer, My concern was 12 cams all running 30 frames a second and at 4 megapixels, what hardware can keep up with that load?

if an i7 6th gen is enough, then that settles that.

My goal is not to build the cheapest system I can get away with, but rather investing as much as needed to build a robust system. A system that does not have Lag, delay, freezing, crashing, etc.

 

[cornholio]

Robust to me means commercial/business grade. Consumer grade is rarely robust IMO and experience. dell optiplex and hp elite desk are business machines as @fenderman has explained in his several posts. the optiplex (i bought a refurb) come with 3 years onsite warranty. the elite desk probably also have similar warranty.

also IMO a system being more expensive, powerful or cutting edge never directly equates to it being robust. simpler is usually also more robust in my experience. thats why when you buy an expensive wireless router with built in modem and all the bells and whistles, it always fails

I'm with you on that one, the UX. I really really wanted a modern UI with great UX. It's 2017 after all! I was surprised to see that blue iris is the best on offer. Not that blue iris is bad.. just that the UI leaves a little to be desired. For e.g. Yi Dome camera's app.. now that is a nice app. You see a nice timeline view of motion tracking overlay on the video frame. looks cool. does motion tracking too, and all for $45! However Yi's cameras are not ONVIF or any other universal protocol. They work only with their app, no pc app/website either! I heard there are other companies that offer nice UI like ubiquity/samsung et al. But the picture quality from those cameras is not good and they're not.. well.. robust I settled on blue iris as the best app for the combination of functionality + UX.

I don't know what Hikvision's app looks like, but since I wasn't going to get a hik nvr i didn't really care. It makes more sense to me to get a PC over an NVR coz it just gives me more freedom. For e.g. i setup a vpn server on it (more secure than port forwarding). I am also going to host a openhab home automation server on it at some point

 

[fenderman]

I really want the best user experience with regards to cellphone app... so if blue iris is better than hikvision, then i am sold.

If there is something better than blue iris without a major cost factor, i would consider that as well.

As far as computer, My concern was 12 cams all running 30 frames a second and at 4 megapixels, what hardware can keep up with that load?

if an i7 6th gen is enough, then that settles that.

My goal is not to build the cheapest system I can get away with, but rather investing as much as needed to build a robust system. A system that does not have Lag, delay, freezing, crashing, etc.

1- most 4mp cameras can only do 20fps
2-30 fps is way overkill.. 15 is more than sufficient.
3-4mp will perform poorly in low light, look at the dahua starlight cameras. Dont make the mistake of thinking more MP is "better"...
either way the i7-6700 will be way more than sufficient.
4- for smooth operation, use an ssd as your os drive.

 

[fenderman]

just that the UI leaves a little to be desired. /QUOTE]
UI looking pretty should never be a consideration when looking at any security appliance...this is not an iphone..

 

[cornholio]

It shouldn't be the main consideration, I agree. It should have all the functionality you need.. however if it looks pretty the WAF goes up significantly

jokes aside, i meant the overall user experience not just the UI. timeline overlay on the playback video frame makes for great UX IMO. check out the app for Yi Dome Camera..

 

[fenderman]

It shouldn't be the main consideration, I agree. It should have all the functionality you need.. however if it looks pretty the WAF goes up significantly

jokes aside, i meant the overall user experience not just the UI. timeline overlay on the playback video frame makes for great UX IMO. check out the app for Yi Dome Camera..

I would never download some no name app to my phone...heck hikvisions app had malware at some point. I dont see how timeline on the frame is helpful, particularly if reviewing more than one cam at a time..

 

[cornholio]

I would never download some no name app to my phone...heck hikvisions app had malware at some point

oh, sure. it doesn't work without proprietary hardware anyway

dont see how timeline on the frame is helpful, particularly if reviewing more than one cam at a time..

oh, cmon! see this image here. forget the text and list of motion notifications below. imagine just that timeline view and video in landscape mode and you could scrub left right, zoom into a timeline view for finer scrubbing. and perhaps even have a translucent ptz control which is tap to show, tap to hide.. no?

 

[fenderman]

oh, sure. it doesn't work without proprietary hardware anyway

oh, cmon! see this image here. forget the text and list of motion notifications below. imagine just that timeline view and video in landscape mode and you could scrub left right, zoom into a timeline view for finer scrubbing. and perhaps even have a translucent ptz control which is tap to show, tap to hide.. no?

That kind of timeline is similar to what hikvsion has in their app and is horrendous..its is almost impossible to find the specific time because its zoomed out too much...with the blue iris mobile app you can quickly ff or reverse through a scene or use the bar to jump ahead/behind...scrubbing on the mobile app would be nice..the server supports it though. You can send suggestions to support

 

[JasonS]

So fenderman, I am looking for an optiplex with i7 6700. Upgrading to a ssd for my OS. Throwing a WD purple for storage.
Anything else I should consider as far as hardware?

 

[JasonS]

Also I am noticing some optiplex come as small form factor or as micro tower... does this mean they have an undesirable motherboard for what I am trying to accomplish?

 

[wantafastz28]

Small form factor at the smallest... micro towers processor's aren't cut it for the job.

 

[cornholio]

From what I remember the size in decreasing order is mini, small ff and ultra small ff/micro. Mini maybe unneccesarily big if you just want to add a hdd. Micro/Ultra SFF maybe too small. The power rating may also be lower for the smaller size.

I have a SFF which let me add a hdd

 

[fenderman]

From what I remember the size in decreasing order is mini, small ff and ultra small ff/micro. Mini maybe unneccesarily big if you just want to add a hdd. Micro/Ultra SFF maybe too small. The power rating may also be lower for the smaller size.

I have a SFF which let me add a hdd

For dell its mini tower (largest) small form factor and micro....
For hp, its tower, sff, usdt, mini...
The hp tower has the most room, can hold 2x3.5 disks...see spec sheets for the rest.

 

[JasonS]

What is your recommendation for a poe switch?

For dell its mini tower (largest) small form factor and micro....
For hp, its tower, sff, usdt, mini...
The hp tower has the most room, can hold 2x3.5 disks...see spec sheets for the rest.

 

[fenderman]

What is your recommendation for a poe switch?

How many cams