Always having problems w/ IP setups. Why???

Discussion in 'Alarm & Security Systems' started by Bizentech, Feb 16, 2016.

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  1. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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    Hey guys. I just installed another 4 cam IP setup, and customer already calling me that cam 3 is down. Yea resetting the NVR usually solves this issue, but that doesn't solve the problem. What am I doing wrong? Setup works for months or sometimes a few days until a camera goes out. Why?? What seems to randomly knock the camera out?
     
  2. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    What equipment are you using? How is the network setup
    IP setups are just are reliable as analog if done properly. If you buy junk or install improperly, then you will have issues.
     
  3. bp2008

    bp2008 Staff Member

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    Once in a while I have one of my Hikvision 2032 cams become unresponsive for no apparent reason, and then it needs power cycled before it will come back. This happened just last weekend to a cam on my managed switch in the garage, but usually it is the cam I have on an unmanaged switch in a bedroom (different camera, different PoE switch, different cable). Even so, this is like a 2 or 3 times a year event while the other 11something Hikvision cams I have active are fine all the time.

    I don't really know what causes it. It could be slightly unreliable hardware (camera or switch), or an elusive bug in camera firmware, or a flakey connection to an RJ45 pin ... the possibilities are endless. Using an NVR, it could even be the NVR's fault.
     
  4. nayr

    nayr Known around here

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    what kinda cable you pulling? you using a quality crimping tool with matching ends for your wire spec and gauge?

    Most of the time I have someone with a camera or really any network device that starts randomly dropping off the network I usually cut the ends off the wires and redo them, and that usually fixes it.. especially with PoE devices as they wont tolerate a poor connection at all with some real current running over the lines.. My crimps always work after all these decades of practice, but other people's are often very shoddy and made with poor crimpers and whatever connectors they could find instead of whats actually needed.. (ie using cat6 connectors on cat5 cable will result in poor connection, or getting connectors for stranded copper instead of solid)

    Most of the times I would say use punchdown over crimped ends simply to avoid issues like this, but IP cameras are pretty much always going to have at least one end terminated with a crimp.. so first invest in some quality tools.. those blinky LED testers will show you have continuity down right, but they will fail to detect all sorts of faults.. Might look around for an old school Fluke Network Tester, they actually test the network and if your patient you can find one for cheap.. I got mine for free when I was cleaning out a datacenter.

    bad cabling can be very frustrating to diagnose, especially with random issues.. so take more effort in your cabling because having to redo it later really sucks.. ive seen em appear to work fine for ages before showing any sign of a problem.. it could wait until a really hot day, high humidity conditions, or heck even only happen when devices load has been high for long enough to cause a rise in reistance.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2016
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  5. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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    The cameras, nvr's, and Poe switches I am using are a generic brand but quality. I usually pull Cat6. For this one project, I pulled cat5e with cat5e connectors. But same problems arise on my cat6 runs. In my setups, all cams either go directly to a Poe switch where the gigabit uplink goes to NVR and a 10/100 port uploads to Internet or cams go directly to a Poe nvr and the standalone port uploads to Internet. No bs in between. The crimpers, they get the job done but are not the best. Connections obviously work. They seem solid.
    I should also mention, it's not one specific camera, it's random cameras. And the cam(s) will remain off until there is a quick basic power cycle. Not something I want to resort to. It's not stable.
    Could it be bandwidth overload to the nvr? Cams record at 2 megapixels, at 25fps, 24/7. If anything, what else could it be?
     
  6. milkisbad

    milkisbad Pulling my weight

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    If it is NVR bandwidth overload you'll get an error like 'No Resource' on the live view, but this usually doesn't happen on a 4 ch unit.
    Could you check the logs and see what errors it gave when the camera got disconnected?
    Otherwise upgrade firmware/default unit/reboot units will usually fix what ails you.
     
  7. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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    I'll check the log. One setup is a 32ch NVR with 10 cams. All going to POE switch. Client wants to expand soon. Had issues there from time to time. Mostly in the early stages, but haven't had any problems since with that one client.
     
  8. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    What NVR? What cams? This is vital info.
     
  9. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I may have found the solutions to the problem!
    Comcast and many other internet providers/routers use dynamic ip addresses, which may eventually conflict with one or more cameras. I tried putting the system in a completely different range, but then the system wouldn't communicate with the router. I basically forgot to go into the router and set a static IP range for the system. I am 99% sure this is what's causing the occasional cutouts. I won't know till Monday. Your thoughts?
     
  10. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Im sorry but if you are not providing static ip addresses to ip cameras or NVR's on your lan then you have no business installing them for others. Every router will hand out addresses via dhcp and therefore you need to reserve the ip address in the router or set a static ip outside the dhcp range.
    This has nothing to do with the internet provider.
     
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  11. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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    I am providing static ip addresses for my systems. I just forgot to assign a static ip range in the router. Would you agree that this what might be causing these occasional random dropouts?
     
  12. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Its not that you need a static ip range. You need each camera that is on the lan (not directly connected to the nvr) to have either dhcp reservation setup in the router OR set to static ip and assigned an address outside the dhcp range. I doubt this is your problem since a reboot resolves it which would not be in line with this issue unless it magically gets the ip address it needs after the reboot.
    There are many reasons for this type of problem. You claim your cameras/nvr are generic but quality, something tells me that is not the case. What BRAND is it?
    You cable runs could be faulty. Crappy CCA cable? bad connections? etc can cause all sorts of issues.
     
  13. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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    CCA? Never! Bad connectors? Idk. Possibly. They seemed fine. And the brand? NVR, No name from China. Cams, box is labeled GWsecurity, also China.
     
  14. bp2008

    bp2008 Staff Member

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    If it is an IP conflict, the customer should have serious connectivity problems on whichever device got the IP camera's address.
     
  15. Kawboy12R

    Kawboy12R Getting comfortable

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    I have yet to meet a person who can say the phrase "quality noname NVR from China" without cringing a bit inside or crossing their fingers.
     
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  16. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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    RESOLVED.... No, it was not an IP conflict. Problem is that the NVR's Max Bandwidth is 96Mbps. The 10 Cameras were pushing well over 96Mbps. Replaced the NVR with a 200Mbps Bandwidth NVR and 0 problems. Btw, what is the difference between incoming bandwidth and outgoing bandwidth??
     
  17. bp2008

    bp2008 Staff Member

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    What is the difference? It couldn't be simpler. Incoming bandwidth is data being sent to a device. Outgoing bandwidth is data being sent from a device. For an NVR, most of the data is incoming, and the only outgoing bandwidth is negligible except when someone is remote viewing via the NVR -- even then, outgoing bandwidth totals should never come close to the incoming.
     
  18. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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    Well it is now much simpler since you validated my assumed conclusion. I just didn't understand why such a high outgoing bandwidth was required or if it even made much of a difference. But yea, if I'm remote viewing on my mobile device or computer, I suppose it can use a lot of bandwidth... I hate it when a manufacturer says "Supports up to 5mp on all channels" yet they manufacture the NVR with a small bandwidth capability. Looks like i'll never make that mistake again.
     
  19. smiticans

    smiticans Getting the hang of it

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    I actually have the same problem with Hikvision and LTS branded 3mp cameras (Domes, turrets and EXIR bullets). I've had them drop offline for no reason and the only way to get them back online was a reboot. This has happened at two different locations and all cameras are assigned a static IP. However, I have not experienced this issue with the new Hikvision 4mp series.
     
  20. Brad_C

    Brad_C Banned

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    I'm seeing this also, but only if the cameras are configured ONVIF. Takes about 4 months for them to lock up, so diagnosing the problem is slow going. Does not happen using RTSP only or Hikvision protocol so they are fine on Hik NVR's or anything that does not chat to them constantly with ONVIF.
     
  21. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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  22. Brad_C

    Brad_C Banned

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    Thanks for the heads-up, but I'm not using an "NVR" in the sense of a Chinese appliance. I'm recording and have confirmed the lockups with 3 different video management systems that I assure you are not bandwidth constrained ;) It's a slow fault finding process with an iteration time exceeding some 16 weeks though. I can confidently say the lockup is in the camera, as in it stops responding on the network to any request (ARP or ping) while maintaining a link. The "fix" is a quick port power cycle on the switch.
     
  23. Bizentech

    Bizentech Young grasshopper

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    In your case, it could be anything from bad cabling/termination, fluctuating current in your PoE Switch, noise on the ethernet line, etc. I'd check your terminating job. I had a camera which kept going out constantly and it was a bad termination job with exposed cable on the male end
     
  24. Brad_C

    Brad_C Banned

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    5 Cameras, 3 different switches, 2 different locations and 4 different manufacturers patch leads. I've checked *all* the variables. When you try 3 cameras on one switch and reboot one of them 4 weeks into the test so they are staggered and the first 2 lock up after 4 months, the third locks up ~4 weeks later it's not the switch. I've use 2 TP-Link (one managed, one un-managed and a Cisco) and reproduced on all 3. Currently I have 4 cameras with 4 different firmware versions recording to two different VMS simultaneously to see if it is version dependent.

    Only happens with Hik 2-line R0 cameras. I have R3 & R4 cameras that are fine on the same hardware/software. They have other ONVIF bugs, but they don't lock up.
     
  25. smiticans

    smiticans Getting the hang of it

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    It's an issue with Hikvision cameras that have been reported by multiple users in two different forms. All of my other 4mp Hikvision, Dahua, Longse and Imporx cameras don't have this issue. Only the 3mp Hikvision Cameras.

    Now the question is if I can get Blue Iris to utilize only the RTSP stream so I don't have to worry about the problem in the future.
     
  26. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Yes simply select the camera from the drop-down and blue iris and it will pull the rtsp Stream
     
  27. Silas

    Silas n3wb

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    Also be aware of environmental issues that can create the problems you describe, bad weather, wind and rain can enter systems and cause issues that are not visible when you troubleshoot later when they dry out, also power surges or even cleaners using power vacuums, had many an error that needed human monitoring and turned out to be people unplugging power to switches and the like, don't always assume it is 'technical' , look for patterns, check logs and cross check with human interventions. You also have to do basic trouble shooting, swapping CAM3 to another port and see if it remains, if not then single steps of change are needed, cable - power - unit - location.
     
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