BI build question re: low end CPU

[Mr.N00bLaR]

Hi,

I am interested in setting up a PC in my rack for the purpose of camera recording around the house. BI has been recommended to me by nearly everyone so it seems to be the obvious choice. From what I have read, it is able to make use of QSV which is great as I would like to run BI on a 1150 g3258 @ 4.5GHz. This is a dual core Devil's Canyon with an older iGPU.


Now, on to what I want to do. I want to run a mix of 2MP IP cameras (2mp/1080@15fps). 4 to start but I fully anticipate up to 16 to cover all of the areas inside and outside that I want to. If this wont work I will look into another CPU on this platform with an iGPU. But - I am very curious as to how low I can go in terms of CPU power and if overclocking the iGPU can make up the deficit.


I'm wondering how much can the iGPU/GT cores make up for an under-powered CPU (older DC architecture, only 2 threads, 3mb cache). Has anyone tried testing to see if there is a performance gain with BI when increasing the iGPU speed, memory speed, and allocating more than the default system memory? The iGPU on my g3258 overclocks well, I was able to get about 1500MHz out of it with AUTO voltage up from a maximum of 1100 on my B85 motherboard. From what I see on my Killowatt meter, the PC is consuming ~55W in 3dMark Vantage with the overclock. I have 8GB (2x4GB) running at 1400MHz CL8.

 

[fenderman]

Hi,

I am interested in setting up a PC in my rack for the purpose of camera recording around the house. BI has been recommended to me by nearly everyone so it seems to be the obvious choice. From what I have read, it is able to make use of QSV which is great as I would like to run BI on a 1150 g3258 @ 4.5GHz. This is a dual core Devil's Canyon with an older iGPU.


Now, on to what I want to do. I want to run a mix of 2MP IP cameras (2mp/1080@15fps). 4 to start but I fully anticipate up to 16 to cover all of the areas inside and outside that I want to. If this wont work I will look into another CPU on this platform with an iGPU. But - I am very curious as to how low I can go in terms of CPU power and if overclocking the iGPU can make up the deficit.


I'm wondering how much can the iGPU/GT cores make up for an under-powered CPU (older DC architecture, only 2 threads, 3mb cache). Has anyone tried testing to see if there is a performance gain with BI when increasing the iGPU speed, memory speed, and allocating more than the default system memory? The iGPU on my g3258 overclocks well, I was able to get about 1500MHz out of it with AUTO voltage up from a maximum of 1100 on my B85 motherboard. From what I see on my Killowatt meter, the PC is consuming ~55W in 3dMark Vantage with the overclock. I have 8GB (2x4GB) running at 1400MHz CL8.

55w at what cpu consumption percentage?
You are much better off buying an adequate processor or buying a prebuilt machine...much more cost effective...overclocking a vms machine is not a smart idea...

 

[Mr.N00bLaR]

The 55w figure is under a synthetic load (prime95 29.x+, the hot high power versions) so I expect other tasks to consume less (the x265 stability test was in the high 40s). Not all CPUs of the same model are the same, some require much less voltage than others and most are in general overvolted. You can save power by finding the lower limits or test overclocking to find out where the performance / efficiency lands. It does require several days worth of testing and a lot of experimenting but usually I can get the same performance or better with lower power consumption which adds up over the years. I normally associate unstable memory overclocking with the bad kind of instability, I will be mindful of that. I plan on using an overclocking chipset so most if not all options are available in terms of clockspeed and voltage and power states. I will not be looking for all/out maximum gaming performance as I plan on installing this in a 2U case and can't install larger coolers.


So you do not think running an iGPU faster can make the difference up for the lacking CPU power? I can likely pick up an i4-46xxK or i7-47xxK for a pretty good price now. Do you think they would be able to handle the eventual camera load? If not I suppose I will look into something in the skylake series closer to BF.

 

[fenderman]

The 55w figure is under a synthetic load (prime95 29.x+, the hot high power versions) so I expect other tasks to consume less (the x265 stability test was in the high 40s). Not all CPUs of the same model are the same, some require much less voltage than others and most are in general overvolted. You can save power by finding the lower limits or test overclocking to find out where the performance / efficiency lands. It does require several days worth of testing and a lot of experimenting but usually I can get the same performance or better with lower power consumption which adds up over the years. I normally associate unstable memory overclocking with the bad kind of instability, I will be mindful of that. I plan on using an overclocking chipset so most if not all options are available in terms of clockspeed and voltage and power states. I will not be looking for all/out maximum gaming performance as I plan on installing this in a 2U case and can't install larger coolers.


So you do not think running an iGPU faster can make the difference up for the lacking CPU power? I can likely pick up an i4-46xxK or i7-47xxK for a pretty good price now. Do you think they would be able to handle the eventual camera load? If not I suppose I will look into something in the skylake series closer to BF.

you can easily run your intended load on an i7-4xxx or higher...though I would not buy and old processor unless you have everything else....you can pickup a complete haswell based i7 system for 400-500...the new coffee lake's are going to be powerhouses but you dont need that for 16x2mpx15fps..if you already have the other processor, give it a try...

 

[Mr.N00bLaR]

you can easily run your intended load on an i7-4xxx or higher...though I would not buy and old processor unless you have everything else....you can pickup a complete haswell based i7 system for 400-500...the new coffee lake's are going to be powerhouses but you dont need that for 16x2mpx15fps..if you already have the other processor, give it a try...

Ah, ok, good. I have the 1150 build already, this build in its current life is powered off in a closet. I thought about buying prebuilt but giving up on BIOS options and not optimal hardware seems like a waste. I will be looking to buy a 2U case, rails, 90% efficient modular PSU, Noctua cooler and RAID card anyways so, reusing my current motherboard, RAM, and possibly CPU makes sense I think.I suppose I can try installing BI and seeing when the g3258 runs out of steam then overclocking the iGPU to see if it helps. I would imagine I should be able to get a 4xxx for in the 80-140$ range soon if not now though.

I think I can tune a 4xxxK CPU to the point where it gains power efficiency. Looking at Noctua's coolers, I'm thinking I may want to tune voltage down.

I agree, the Coffee Lake CPU's seem awesome. The buy-in cost for me will be significant vs a 4xxxK CPU. I'd like to switch out my 6600K which is pending days normally encoding but I think I'll wait until some show up used.

 

[fenderman]

Ah, ok, good. I have the 1150 build already, this build in its current life is powered off in a closet. I thought about buying prebuilt but giving up on BIOS options and not optimal hardware seems like a waste. I will be looking to buy a 2U case, rails, 90% efficient modular PSU, Noctua cooler and RAID card anyways so, reusing my current motherboard, RAM, and possibly CPU makes sense I think.I suppose I can try installing BI and seeing when the g3258 runs out of steam then overclocking the iGPU to see if it helps. I would imagine I should be able to get a 4xxx for in the 80-140$ range soon if not now though.

I think I can tune a 4xxxK CPU to the point where it gains power efficiency. Looking at Noctua's coolers, I'm thinking I may want to tune voltage down.

I agree, the Coffee Lake CPU's seem awesome. The buy-in cost for me will be significant vs a 4xxxK CPU. I'd like to switch out my 6600K which is pending days normally encoding but I think I'll wait until some show up used.

what bios options do you need?...the hardware is all the same...I run optiplex and elitedesk machines with zero issues...you will be paying double just to build it yourself and rack mount it..makes little sense...

 

[Mr.N00bLaR]

I need the ability to control voltage and clock speed to get the desired performance and power consumption. I have a rack because I run a virtualization lab and other projects and equipment. It made sense to physically organize them this way. I know there's a higher cost but I see it as worth while.

I am curious as to what happens if a CPU is completely pegged. Is a camera completely dropped for example? Or would all streams suffer to some extent?

 

[fenderman]

I need the ability to control voltage and clock speed to get the desired performance and power consumption. I have a rack because I run a virtualization lab and other projects and equipment. It made sense to physically organize them this way. I know there's a higher cost but I see it as worth while.

I am curious as to what happens if a CPU is completely pegged. Is a camera completely dropped for example? Or would all stream suffer to some extent?

you dont need to adjust any voltage is you buy an efficient machine with adequate power.. you dont want to run a machine that comes remotely close to pegging...though he has introduced new updates that prevent frame loss even at 100% but that wont work for prolonged pegging..

 

[truglo]

Mr.N00bLaR, I was born a diehard tinkerer. So I truly do appreciate the enjoyment that can be had by tweaking with voltages and clocks, but honestly from my limited experience with IP security cams I have to agree with what fenderman's suggestions. A proper and efficient hardware accelerated Intel setup will barely show up on your electricity bill when compared to your lab. My poorman's HP elite (3rd gen i5/8gb, $130 shipped from ebay), 3x2mp@15fps (IR all on), 24port HP1910 poe (the BIG one with 365W), and home router all together piss away a paltry 90W avg; the thing averages 3-4% cpu. That will change with 16cams (also in my long term plan), but to what? ...15-25% avg? How much would that improve with v/mhz tweaks?

Rack it if you want, but I wouldn't carry out custom volt/clock tweaking rituals on it. It's a forensic evidence collection device, not a gaming system or virtualization server... any failure modes you add to your camera setup will eventually start to keep you up at night, if you know what I mean. Simple+reliable should be priority #1 for a vms.

Kev

[edit: Out of curiosity I just shut down my BI server to see what the switch, cams, and router consume... a constant 63W according to my fancy pfc ups, and all the IR's are off now. According to my switch with all of them on the IR leds use about 6W. That puts my BI server power average in the low 20W range... Saweet! This clearly supports the idea that tweaking the cpu on a vms pc is not needed. OTOH, it also highlights just how much power a big poe switch can use just to stay lit up... you can feel the heat coming from that thing.]

 

[Mr.N00bLaR]

I can appreciate what you are saying. I have been overclocking for many years (used to be very active on an overclocking forum) and understand the hardware well. I am not concerned. I mostly wanted to see what kind of difference faster clockspeeds would make in terms of BI performance because I didn't find much when I google'd it. I still plan to do testing with the iGPU speed. My plan was to take my g3258 as far as I could but, I've decided to sell it off and move my now idle i5-6600K (4.5ghz/1.3ghz) PC into this role. The CPU is much faster, supports high speed RAM, and has a significantly better iGPU (hd530 vs neutered ~hd2000).

truglo, do you use Windows 7,8,8.1, or 10?

 

[truglo]

Win10pro

I bet you'll be happy as a clam with the i5 6k. Intel HD+BI is like a match made in heaven.