DanDenver
Getting comfortable
All good thoughts for a business.
But for residential use, a tad overkill.
However I understand everyone has a different understanding of what 'secure' is
BI vs NVR
- Thread starter Ironheadchop
- Start date
All good thoughts for a business.
But for residential use, a tad overkill.
However I understand everyone has a different understanding of what 'secure' is
Having never owned a NVR... suppose you buy a 8 channel NVR. Can you add an additional POE switch later on to upgrade to 16 channels? Or are you hardware limited to the initial 8 channels?
The reason I ask is because I went the Blue Iris route. I started with 4 IP cameras. I am now in the 20's. I would of been unpleased with myself if I bought a 4 channel NVR that could not be easily upgradeable to 8 or 16 or 24 ports later on. I believe the number of camera limit for Blue Iris is... in the 60's (?) due to Windows 64 bit architecture and the number of POE ports on a switch (which you can have multiple POE switches throughout the house for ease of installation instead of just at a single point).
The reason I ask is because I went the Blue Iris route. I started with 4 IP cameras. I am now in the 20's. I would of been unpleased with myself if I bought a 4 channel NVR that could not be easily upgradeable to 8 or 16 or 24 ports later on. I believe the number of camera limit for Blue Iris is... in the 60's (?) due to Windows 64 bit architecture and the number of POE ports on a switch (which you can have multiple POE switches throughout the house for ease of installation instead of just at a single point).
You are limited to the number of channels the NVR is designed for. Just another reason to go BI lol.
An NVR is a specialized ip camera encoding and recording server appliance. So its limited to the max channels (like a 4 or 8, 16 , 32, 64 128 and 256 channel versions). When someone expands, they just buy another NVR of the same brand so they stack into the same remote viewing app. Some people go this route mainly because they don't want to dink with building and setting up a computer, just by the one that support the cameras and plug-n-go.
BI is 64 channels max, but you must build the server with good specs to get good results. That is why I revamp a mac pro 2,1 into a windows server (didn't have to download drivers either). It also works with wine/Ubuntu Linux.
The downside to BI it is not written well enough to be 100% exposed w/o a firewall or even being port forwarded. An NVR can be secured.
I have both but use the BI for mirror recording and NVRs for remote access.
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YMMV....
FWIW, I've installed 2 NVR's for clients, both Amcrest (rebranded Dahua), both port forwared, one hacked after 1 month, one still OK 5 years later.
I've been running my BI server since 2014 using port forwarding, never hacked.
Also running 2 more residential BI servers and a business BI server, all using port forwarding and all since 2016, none hacked.
Maybe I should go to Las Vegas with some cash or buy a Powerball ticket.
YMMV....
FWIW, I've installed 2 NVR's for clients, both Amcrest (rebranded Dahua), both port forwared, one hacked after 1 month, one still OK 5 years later.
I've been running my BI server since 2014 using port forwarding, never hacked.
Also running 2 more residential BI servers and a business BI server, all using port forwarding and all since 2016, none hacked.
Maybe I should go to Las Vegas with some cash or buy a Powerball ticket.
Port forwarding is still a bad practice.
Mike A.
Known around here
- May 6, 2017
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Not sure about that part. Dahua, Hikvision, and other known camera systems are prime targets, actively searched for, and have been the subject of wide exploits many times, typically going around authorization in the device.
I'd agree that BI is potentially vulnerable but much less targeted and actively updated. In all the years running BI I don't think that I've ever seen a report of a truly "hacked" BI system. Some poorly configured and secured systems accessed, yes. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be exploited though. I have a zero-trust approach to it too.
Personally, I wouldn't directly expose much of anything to the Internet without something upfront and active monitoring.
Software typically is updated. Firmware is typically not updated. Some folks like to tinker with their software and some prefer never to touch it.
It is up to you what you want to do. Personally I like software because I have an IT background and like to tinker.
It is up to you what you want to do. Personally I like software because I have an IT background and like to tinker.
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What about this switch? 8 ports with 2 uplinks. Would like to have one with a seperate uplink port so i can have all 8 for cameras. Looks like this one is a gigabit? Would this be a good one?
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Can you backup this claim that VPN's are easier to hack than cloud NVR access? I find that hard to believe, considering NVR's are one of the most least secure devices you can put on your network. You can find a decent Asus router that has OpenVPN built into it for $160 or less. You can also buy a used Dell Optiplex on eBay for $140.00, an intel gigabit NIC on amazon for $40.00 and load pfSense onto it. pfSense supports OpenVPN and Wireguard. In my opinion, PfSense is far superior to any consumer grade router that is currently sold, so you would be much better off if you "bought into that infrastructure".
If you don't want to spend any money and keep your current network infrastructure, Zero Tier would be a good fit. Only issue with Zero Tier is it has to be installed on the device you want remote access to, so it would only work with BI, not an NVR.
I've used both BI and an NVR. BI is far superior to an NVR for both local access and remote access on a phone.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
What switch are you asking about, no link provided.
Don't cheap out on switches or Cable, it is the heart of the system.
BV-Tech 10 Port PoE+ Gigabit Switch (8 PoE+ Gigabit Ports with 2 Gigabit Uplink) – 96W – 802.3af/at, Made in Taiwan, NDAA Compliant
BV-Tech 10 Port PoE+ Gigabit Switch (8 PoE+ Gigabit Ports with 2 Gigabit Uplink) – 96W – 802.3af/at, Made in Taiwan, NDAA Compliant
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sebastiantombs
Known around here
I'm very cautious of BV Tech switches. To me their power supplies are very weak, will not start under load. I had one that needed to be nursed through a restart, unplug all cameras, let the switch boot, then plug cameras back in one at a time, more than once. One day it failed after a power failure trying to reboot itself. It was less than a year old, 16 port with 10 cameras. Buy cheap, you get cheap.
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I've been using TP Link PoE switches since 2013 and I have yet to have one of them fail.
These are the two main ones I've been using;
These are the two main ones I've been using;
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Mike A.
Known around here
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Yeah, my TP-Link and Netgear switches have been workhorses. Did have some issues with one series of the small Netgear non-POE switches failing repeatedly but they replaced them under lifetime warranty until finally getting past that version. No problems with anything from either since.
TP-Link has a store on ebay where they sell refurbs and regularly have coupons for 10% off.
www.ebay.com
ebay had a promo the other day for 20% off refurbished products that stacked with that. I got one of these to replace another older Netgear that I have for $~130 shipped. Thought that was a pretty good deal for 24-port POE+ Gig switch.
TP-Link has a store on ebay where they sell refurbs and regularly have coupons for 10% off.
Security Measure
ebay had a promo the other day for 20% off refurbished products that stacked with that. I got one of these to replace another older Netgear that I have for $~130 shipped. Thought that was a pretty good deal for 24-port POE+ Gig switch.
TP-LINK JetStream 24-Port Gigabit Smart PoE+ Switch - Black (T1600G-28PS) for sale online | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for TP-LINK JetStream 24-Port Gigabit Smart PoE+ Switch - Black (T1600G-28PS) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
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Review page one of this thread... plenty of GREAT info posted in response to your earlier inquiries about PoE Switches
There are a lot of 16 ch POE switches that are weak. because the power supply should be 190W+ to support 16 ch. ( average small camera is 12W so 12X16=192)
alastairstevenson
Staff member
Just in case this determines anyone's buying choices ...
Sorry, but I disagree.
Based on actual experience, and also device specs.
Even Pro series models (ie more RAM and faster processors) with active strong IR or white LEDs use no more than 5 or 6w worst case.
I believe your figures are out by a factor of about 2.
Mike A.
Known around here
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Some of mine now from a switch that reports POE power use that was easy to copy and paste. The column before Class is the power. The 2s are cams running without IR. 4-7 are cams running IR. Both are a mix of T5442s, B5442, and a 5241-Z12, The 8.8 is an HIkvision DS-2CD2512F-IWS cam similar to the Dahua mini-wedges. Not sure why that one's so high other than maybe it runs both IR and WFi that seems to be active even with POE connected. The 9 and 12.9 are runs with 2 cams on splitters (4K-X+Amcrest 5MP and 5442 without IR+Dahua SD29204T mini-PTZ which is kind of a power hog at ~8 with IR on, respectively).
| e8 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 0 | None | 49 | 45 | 2.200 | Class | 15400 | Delivering Power | |
| e9 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 0 | None | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | Class | 15400 | Searching | |
| e10 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 0 | None | 48 | 182 | 8.800 | Class | 15400 | Delivering Power | |
| e11 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 2 | None | 49 | 56 | 2.700 | Class | 15400 | Delivering Power | |
| e12 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 0 | None | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | Class | 15400 | Searching | |
| e13 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 0 | None | 49 | 58 | 2.800 | Class | 15400 | Delivering Power | |
| e14 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 0 | None | 48 | 142 | 6.900 | Class | 15400 | Delivering Power | |
| e15 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 0 | None | 49 | 98 | 4.800 | Class | 15400 | Delivering Power | |
| e16 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 3 | None | 48 | 116 | 5.600 | Class | 15400 | Delivering Power | |
| e17 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 0 | None | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | Class | 15400 | Searching | |
| e18 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 4 | None | 49 | 185 | 9.0 | Class | 15400 | Delivering Power | |
| e19 | Enable | Low | 802.3af 2point Only | 4 | None | 48 | 266 | 12.900 | Class | 15400 | Delivering Power |
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