IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
I actually linked the wrong video from that guy above, meant to link this (Note, it pretty much agrees with Hybrids)
bidens incredible transition to electric cars
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Facts:
Total electric usage in the USA for 2021 - 3.93 Trillion kWh
Total electricity produced in USA by solar for 2021 - 114.678 Million kWh (3%))
Total electricity produced in USA by wind for 2021 - 380 Billion kWh (9.2%)
So sure, let's shutdown the fossil fueled generating plants in the country and we can all live on the 12.2% generated by alternative sources, NOT!!!
For those who think that rail transportation in this country poses no danger to the public or that any danger that exists lies at the hands of the workforce itself, you are kidding yourselves! The railroads, media and government are the best there is at suppressing the horror stories of the industry. Automation is not the answer!
Total electric usage in the USA for 2021 - 3.93 Trillion kWh
Total electricity produced in USA by solar for 2021 - 114.678 Million kWh (3%))
Total electricity produced in USA by wind for 2021 - 380 Billion kWh (9.2%)
So sure, let's shutdown the fossil fueled generating plants in the country and we can all live on the 12.2% generated by alternative sources, NOT!!!
For those who think that rail transportation in this country poses no danger to the public or that any danger that exists lies at the hands of the workforce itself, you are kidding yourselves! The railroads, media and government are the best there is at suppressing the horror stories of the industry. Automation is not the answer!
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
Who's saying we need to do that? I don't even think brain-tumor Joe has said that
What's wrong with trains? Trains are awesome
The restrictions in place for fossil fuel generation have been saying that for years. All across the nation coal fired plants are being shuttered due to the fact that they cannot operate under the burden of regulation. The fact is that enough plant closings have already occurred to equal more than what solar and wind produce today. You can expect to see news of rolling brown/blackouts in the southwestern US in the near future due primarily to these facts and the fact that the existing hydro-electric plants in the region are in danger of closing down as well due to other factors at work.
tigerwillow1
Known around here
Before I bought a Subaru last year my short list had a RAV4 Prime plug-in hybrid on it. On paper it's an ideal solution for most of my needs: Running errands usually less than 30 miles round trip, charging at home, eliminating most trips to the gas station, yet able to make the occasional several hundred mile trip. There were 2 things that kicked the RAV4 off the list: (1) I refuse to have a large NMC chemistry battery in my attached garage, and (2) The driver seat wouldn't go back far enough for me. I'm hearing rumblings that the industry is transitioning to LiFePO4 batteries which would get rid of problem #1, and most drivers probably don't have my #2 problem.
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
Are you sure its not because digging up coal from the ground is more and more expensive, and these plants were actually old?... Because that's the only reason I can actually find.
www.forbes.com
theconversation.com
As a Human who breathes air, I'm also happy to not have all that crap in the air...
So Much For Coal’s Rebound - Plant Closures Come Roaring Back. It’s Time To Unlock A Just Transition.
The coal industry's 2021 rebound looks like a blip: Plant closures are about to take a "record plunge." It's time to start a just transition for utilities and coal-dependent communities.
www.forbes.com
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
www.bloomberg.com
What's really driving coal power's demise?
Contrary to popular belief, falling natural gas prices didn’t significantly accelerate coal power plant retirements. Here’s what did.
theconversation.com
As a Human who breathes air, I'm also happy to not have all that crap in the air...
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
Yeah I got you there, I'm not too concerned about EV's myself since I currently have a metric crap-top of gasoline in there, but I refuse to buy anything other than LiFePO4 batteries to store my solar, just too high of a risk for fire especially when its sat in the sun working hard all day (Compared to an EV in the garage pretty much idle)
Yeah, I am sure. Coal plants are subject to major overhaul every 4 years of operation per safety regulations. This is expensive but has been going on for decades already. The publications you point to tell a perspective based on opinion rather than fact.
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
So if its been going on for decades, what changed?
What changed is that demand for electricity has remained relatively constant for the past 4 years now at roughly 4 trillion kWh. Meanwhile, plant closing have continued due to regulation and new plant construction has not kept pace with demand. Alternatives have not filled the gap either so we have a demand that is currently at a point where total grid output is being strained to supply the demand. The result is that existing plants cannot produce electricity 24/7/365 as maintenance requirements do not allow for that. As more plants close or go offline for various reasons will result in shortages (brown/blackouts).
I am not opposed to EV's, quite the contrary but I am opposed to the idea that we can somehow magically turn off the major sources of our electric generation in favor of sources that to date have proven unable to meet demand.
I am not opposed to EV's, quite the contrary but I am opposed to the idea that we can somehow magically turn off the major sources of our electric generation in favor of sources that to date have proven unable to meet demand.
Even assuming that enough lithium, cobalt, nickel and phosphate can be mined, and there is some question regarding reserves of lithium, getting those permits and setting up the mining will take years and years. Most of the lithium and cobalt, and I suspect nickel, are being mined in countries that have, shall we say, very lax environmental regulations to say the least. Then there's the problem of labor with child labor being a frequent source not to mention the extremely low pay, even by the standards of the countries involved.
Going to EVs is not the trip down a sunny lane filled with unicorns and rainbows it's being sold as. Can it be done, sure but with some serious caveats.
We visit some friends that live about 600 miles away. In my good old ICE vehicle it's a simple one day drive with a twenty minute stop to fuel up along the way. In an EV, it's more like a two day trek because we'd need to stop somewhere and charge the EV back up again. Same thing on the way home. Battery capacity is the limiting factor and simply increasing the battery capacity is an operation of diminishing returns. The majority of the vehicle weight is the batteries. Making them bigger means significant amounts of more weight, more breaks to stop the thing, better rated tires to support them and, probably a larger vehicle to house them (unless you want to sit at the height of a pick-up in your net looking sedan/coupe. Note that the Hummer EV weighs about 10,000 pounds, five tons just to get the same range, almost, as a Tesla or Volt style vehicle.
Another thought for you....Let's say 50% of the people have an EV as their transportation. A major hurricane is headed for the south, either Florida or the Gulf Coast. What's evacuation going to look like when all those people who are trying to get out of the way have to stop and recharge their EV? Can you say a manmade disaster?
Ramping up the electric grid has to happen and that will take a long time even if permits are expedited and no lawsuits get filed. Generating capacity will also need to be increased which means more permits, law suits, injunctions, show cause orders and whatever else can be used to slow or stop their construction.
Then there's the problem of charging stations and the total lack of standards for how they work and even what kind of plug is needed. I just saw that Ford is giving their dealers a choice of two tiers of dealer standing for their EVs. The difference is one fast charging station versus two fast charging stations. The difference in cost to the dealer is about 1.2 million to get the higher rating. That seems to make fast charging stations a tad on the expensive side. Unless that kind of problem gets eliminated it's not going to work out well.
What makes it all really hilarious to me is that it's all being "driven" by California. A State where the electric grid is held together with chewing gum wrappers and they won;t even let the power companies trim the trees and clear the brush from the high line right of ways. More guaranteed failure.
All of this to potentially reduce the temperature by 0.02 degrees over the next 100 years. If the sunspot cycle drops off it'll cool more than that.
Going to EVs is not the trip down a sunny lane filled with unicorns and rainbows it's being sold as. Can it be done, sure but with some serious caveats.
We visit some friends that live about 600 miles away. In my good old ICE vehicle it's a simple one day drive with a twenty minute stop to fuel up along the way. In an EV, it's more like a two day trek because we'd need to stop somewhere and charge the EV back up again. Same thing on the way home. Battery capacity is the limiting factor and simply increasing the battery capacity is an operation of diminishing returns. The majority of the vehicle weight is the batteries. Making them bigger means significant amounts of more weight, more breaks to stop the thing, better rated tires to support them and, probably a larger vehicle to house them (unless you want to sit at the height of a pick-up in your net looking sedan/coupe. Note that the Hummer EV weighs about 10,000 pounds, five tons just to get the same range, almost, as a Tesla or Volt style vehicle.
Another thought for you....Let's say 50% of the people have an EV as their transportation. A major hurricane is headed for the south, either Florida or the Gulf Coast. What's evacuation going to look like when all those people who are trying to get out of the way have to stop and recharge their EV? Can you say a manmade disaster?
Ramping up the electric grid has to happen and that will take a long time even if permits are expedited and no lawsuits get filed. Generating capacity will also need to be increased which means more permits, law suits, injunctions, show cause orders and whatever else can be used to slow or stop their construction.
Then there's the problem of charging stations and the total lack of standards for how they work and even what kind of plug is needed. I just saw that Ford is giving their dealers a choice of two tiers of dealer standing for their EVs. The difference is one fast charging station versus two fast charging stations. The difference in cost to the dealer is about 1.2 million to get the higher rating. That seems to make fast charging stations a tad on the expensive side. Unless that kind of problem gets eliminated it's not going to work out well.
What makes it all really hilarious to me is that it's all being "driven" by California. A State where the electric grid is held together with chewing gum wrappers and they won;t even let the power companies trim the trees and clear the brush from the high line right of ways. More guaranteed failure.
All of this to potentially reduce the temperature by 0.02 degrees over the next 100 years. If the sunspot cycle drops off it'll cool more than that.
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
I'm going to ignore anything above this quote, just because I agree with range concerns etc, exactly why I'll be keeping my F150 with the 36 Gallon tank
There is ZERO lack of standard for EV charging in the USA. Every single EV in North America uses the SAE J1772 apart from Tesla, which can use it with an adapter. Its extremely standard. Charging is completely figured out at this point and super universal
You can use any EVSE and the car with auto negotiate the charging speed
Well, they all leave with 100% charge most likely, and have less of an issue than with gas. But, evacuations here have been a nightmare with gas cars too. So lose-lose? Evacuations are always terrible, but I have a feeling they might even be better with an EV. But that's just a guess honestly
You are very misinformed here
There is ZERO lack of standard for EV charging in the USA. Every single EV in North America uses the SAE J1772 apart from Tesla, which can use it with an adapter. Its extremely standard. Charging is completely figured out at this point and super universal
You can use any EVSE and the car with auto negotiate the charging speed
Nothing to say here, I just want an EV because its neat
That standard explains a few things like why only Tesla can be fast charged at a Tesla fast charge station from what I've heard. That's anecdotal but I have no reason to suspect it's not true.
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
Tesla is apparently working on letting non-Teslas DC fast charge at Tesla Superchargers, but currently with an adapter Tesla's can DC fast charge anywhere else
Somehow I don't think that's very high up on Elon's list of "things to do".
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
I think he's getting pressure from elsewhere, with how locked in Tesla's are, I bet he's not too happy about that
A Tesla would be on the bottom of the list of cars I'd own. Like owning a Macbook but 100x more expensive and somehow even less repairable
You see the guy that got locked out of his car by Tesla because it needs a new $26,000 battery? It's a 2013 and I would expect that to be at the age limit of the battery, but $26K suddenly makes it a lot more expensive than it was in the first place. He's in some sort or argument with them and he sold it, had to get a duplicate title since the titel is inside the car and he can't get into it to get the title, 
I think that was Canadian dollars. In US$ that would only be $19,766.66. Much more reasonable.You see the guy that got locked out of his car by Tesla because it needs a new $26,000 battery? It's a 2013 and I would expect that to be at the age limit of the battery, but $26K suddenly makes it a lot more expensive than it was in the first place. He's in some sort or argument with them and he sold it, had to get a duplicate title since the titel is inside the car and he can't get into it to get the title,
Don't Look Up
Getting the hang of it
So, your counterpoint is that oil supplies are Infinite? The easy to extract Oil is gone, that's why Fracking is being used so much now. Fracked wells begin losing output almost immediately and probably just a trickle after a year or so. Considering a planetary population of 8 Billion now, NOTHING is "sustainable" we're, as the old saying went, we're now "eating our own seed corn" to try to maintain the illusion of any sustainability. The Piper will be paid and the end will not be pleasant...
There is enough oil to be pumped/fracked here in the US for at least 150 years or longer. During that time grid improvements can be made, new battery technology can be developed and new methods of swapping batteries in EVs can be developed. There is absolutely no reason to rush into this "green agenda" headlong and blindly in a ten year time period. It will only kill the economy which will have devastating and immediate effects on the entire world. Adding ethanol to gasoline is a ridiculous effort that costs more than it "saves". It takes 1.5 times as much energy to produce ethanol than the ethanol can produce when burned. In other words it's another "green feel good" effort by idiots.
If you want to "save the world" it would be better to invest your time and efforts in stopping the major polluters like China, India and Russia rather than trying to force EVs on people that don't want anything to do with them. Another thing you could try would be to make hydrogen generation practical and portable. Hydrogen power is much cleaner and more abundant than oil or batteries.
If you want to "save the world" it would be better to invest your time and efforts in stopping the major polluters like China, India and Russia rather than trying to force EVs on people that don't want anything to do with them. Another thing you could try would be to make hydrogen generation practical and portable. Hydrogen power is much cleaner and more abundant than oil or batteries.