Cam Placement Advice

[c hris527]

Hi All,
Need your advice on a rather challenging camera placement. If you look at this picture, You will see a security locking door, the door was added fairly recently. Their is a wall (hallway)behind me where I snapped this pick about 9 feet away from the door. There is already a cam there and it is a old analog cam. I did some testing with some Dahua 3 and 4mp cams and my issue is the glare. They want to see who is at the door and buzz them in. The glass in the door acts like a mirror as you can see reflections on the door of pictures on the wall behind me. Also the door faces south and sun glare is also a issue. I tried BLC, WDR and it got a bit better but making out a face behind this glass is a issue and the director was not warm and fuzzy with the test pics. They are way better that what they have now but I will not install something if they are going to complain about it in the future. I had thought about perhaps a small dome between the doors but Glare would still be a issue. I do not have a lot of room between doors here, it use to be a revolving door and got retrofitted with security doors, the ceiling is very low and it all concrete...grrr. Has anybody ever put a roi in their cam pic to keep the pic adjusted. As the sun comes and goes so does the glare and it brutal.
Any input would be good.

 

[fenderman]

Hi All,
Need your advice on a rather challenging camera placement. If you look at this picture, You will see a security locking door, the door was added fairly recently. Their is a wall (hallway)behind me where I snapped this pick about 9 feet away from the door. There is already a cam there and it is a old analog cam. I did some testing with some Dahua 3 and 4mp cams and my issue is the glare. They want to see who is at the door and buzz them in. The glass in the door acts like a mirror as you can see reflections on the door of pictures on the wall behind me. Also the door faces south and sun glare is also a issue. I tried BLC, WDR and it got a bit better but making out a face behind this glass is a issue and the director was not warm and fuzzy with the test pics. They are way better that what they have now but I will not install something if they are going to complain about it in the future. I had thought about perhaps a small dome between the doors but Glare would still be a issue. I do not have a lot of room between doors here, it use to be a revolving door and got retrofitted with security doors, the ceiling is very low and it all concrete...grrr. Has anybody ever put a roi in their cam pic to keep the pic adjusted. As the sun comes and goes so does the glare and it brutal.
Any input would be good.

View attachment 34481

What models did you test? Were they true WDR or DWDR?

 

[c hris527]

Good Question and thanks for answering fenderman, You got me thinking about that. I checked the spec on the cams, they are OEM Dahua sold by Savvytec and according to the spec on the fix lens it says True 120db True wdr, I would assume that means its not digital, I will have to find the spec on the VF Bullet I was using also. I will really have to do some more testing to try to nail this down. The main issue I had was the sun glare coming and going through the first outside door.

SavvyTech - 4MP H.265 WDR Fixed Lens Bullet, 3.6mm Lens

 

[J Sigmo]

Looking through one door would be better than looking through two. And looking through no glass would be best, of course.

This will always be difficult if you're facing south because people at the door will be backlit by the sun, and the sun will be lighting up the floor and possibly walls in the area between the doors (at least). And the overall scene behind the people will be very bright, too. The dynamic range this presents is enormous, and may well be beyond what can reasonably be captured in a single exposure.

Keeping the camera's angle to the glass such that the reflected area is not directly illuminated by the sun would be best. And if they can paint the reflected areas dark, flat colors, that helps as well. Dull black carpet in the space between the doors, and flat black walls in that area would be helpful. (If they'd go for that).

But could they also consider a camera outside? Like a doorbell cam type of thing. It would be looking into the sun a lot of the time, but at least you'd be outside of the glass.

And paint the exterior walls near the door flat white. This would reflect and disperse more sunlight back onto the peoples' faces so that at least they get some good illumination to compete with the sunlight and bright scene that's behind them when they're standing facing the door. High contrast scenes like this are always hard to photograph. If a photographer were shooting people backlighted by the sun, they'd use a flash or two to provide "fill" on the shaded side of the people (their faces in this case) so that their shaded side wouldn't be so much darker than what's behind them.

Mounting a bright floodlight at the door that adjusts to match the sunlight might seem a bit harsh, though! Sort of starting the interrogation before they even enter the building!

 

[tangent]

Is the outer door locked or only the inner door?

 

[J Sigmo]

Is the outer door locked or only the inner door?

Good question. I was assuming it was the outer door that was locked. If it's the inner door, that opens up a lot of possibilities, such as making the outer door opaque so the sun won't enter into the equation.

 

[c hris527]

Is the outer door locked or only the inner door?

The Inner door is locked and being monitored as to who can come in and out, however on both sides of that entrance are large glass windows(not shown) that also are not helping matters.

 

[c hris527]

Here is a different view, you can see the windows and lighting better and also see the placement of the existing camera on the wall opposite the door.

 

[tangent]

The Inner door is locked and being monitored as to who can come in and out, however on both sides of that entrance are large glass windows(not shown) that also are not helping matters.

I'd try to put the camera between the doors, close to the locked door. A video intercom of some kind is also a possibility.
You may have to try convince them to put some kind of window tint on the outer door or to install an awning of some kind.

 

[c hris527]

There is a doorbell with a intercom there already, its really tight in there as it use to be a revolving door, I have thought about a small cam or pin hole type, whatever I use has to be hard wired, I think after the gang here looking at the layout a cam mounted on the wall is not going to be a option. Thanks for your input as always tangent.

 

[fenderman]

There is a doorbell with a intercom there already, its really tight in there as it use to be a revolving door, I have thought about a small cam or pin hole type, whatever I use has to be hard wired, I think after the gang here looking at the layout a cam mounted on the wall is not going to be a option. Thanks for your input as always tangent.

Perhaps a pendant mounted camera dropped from the ceiling closer to the door would work. If you get the right angle you can get the top part of the torso and face while avoiding the extra light. Also axis has a custom exposure zone function. I dont know which of their cams support this.

 

[c hris527]

Wow Fantastic find Fenderman, this sheds some light ( <------lol get it) on some of my issues.

 

[fenderman]

Wow Fantastic find Fenderman, this sheds some light ( <------lol get it) on some of my issues.

With respect to the pendant idea one of these https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/19711
with a pendant mount cut to fit https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/productDetail/13681
is what I would try first as it is way cheaper than an axis cam, if it doesnt work, just use it on another job..

 

[c hris527]

I was reading the Dahua wikki, There is a setting called ssa, I wonder if anyone has used it, It was not a option in the cams I had.

 

[fenderman]

I was reading the Dahua wikki, There is a setting called ssa, I wonder if anyone has used it, It was not a option in the cams I had.

View attachment 34512

I believe its on the ultra series dahua cameras...there are threads that discuss it. I have no experience with it myself. My only ultra cam is sitting on my desk.

 

[looney2ns]

The HDW5231R-ZE has SSA. I have not played with it, but it's in the backlight settings.
@c hris527

 

[c hris527]

The HDW5231R-ZE has SSA. I have not played with it, but it's in the backlight settings.
@c hris527

I was excited until I checked mine, I do not have it, what FW ver. looney? Thanks

 

[J Sigmo]

The varying lighting of the room inside of the inner door will always be a serious problem when trying to see through that door. So getting a camera inside of the space between the doors would be good IF you can mount it close enough to the inner door that you will have a good view of the people in that space (they're not pressed up too close to the inner door).

But you may well be able to shoot through the inner door if you can control things just so.

Let's say you mount the camera through the drop-ceiling, directly in front of and above the inner door, shooting downward at it at a fairly steep angle. This means that what will be seen in the reflection from the inner door will be the floor directly inside of the inner door.

You might be able to get them to place a black or very dark rug on the floor in the area that the camera sees reflected in the door glass.

With a focal length that lets you see only the required area of the inner door's glass, the area of the floor seen reflected in the glass can be kept to a minimum. That setup eliminates dealing with reflections from the walls and most of the floor, which will help.

Then use the camera "tools" you guys are considering to help with the exposure correction, etc.

This is a difficult setup, for sure!

 

[looney2ns]

@c hris527

 

[c hris527]

Thanks @looney2ns for the info, My firmware is a few ticks back in 2017, I wonder if it will magically appear if I go up. Do you remember if that was there when your cam was new?