Looking for any feedback on camera installation locations. There will also be a doorbell camera not shown.
Last edited:
Camera Installation Location Feedback
- Thread starter kickstart24
- Start date
Nice house!
Most of those locations are too high to get IDENTIFY quality unless you use a varifocal and point it to an area beyond your property to "flatten" the angle.
The common cameras are 2.8 and 3.6mm focal lengths and the realistic IDENTIFY distance is 15-18 feet, and on the 2nd story you lose all of the IDENTIFY in the vertical.
I would suggest varifocal cameras instead of fixed length so that you can aim for a distance further out.
Most of those locations are too high to get IDENTIFY quality unless you use a varifocal and point it to an area beyond your property to "flatten" the angle.
The common cameras are 2.8 and 3.6mm focal lengths and the realistic IDENTIFY distance is 15-18 feet, and on the 2nd story you lose all of the IDENTIFY in the vertical.
I would suggest varifocal cameras instead of fixed length so that you can aim for a distance further out.
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Cameras should not be mounted any higher than 8ft, if you expect to get face ID's for the Police.
See HERE and Cliff Notes
See HERE and Cliff Notes
Thanks. I'm reading up and yes it seems like they are too high to get IDENTIFY. I am trying to strike a balance between location and aesthetics and these seemed like the most logical locations.
Would you do varifocal for all 8 camera locations? Would this cut down on the field of view for OBSERVE?
Realistically you cannot have both OBSERVE and ID from the same camera. Every camera has a job and many expect to see the entire yard and, at the same time, be able to read the time one someone's watch.
One camera cannot do it all.
You cannot see everything and still see details. Getting good details does not allow you to see everything; it is a give and take.
This is why a good system will have cameras that complement each other. This is also why a PTZ is a complement to a good, already established system and should not be heavily relied on by itself.
When planning your system and layout start by focusing on choke points and set up fields of view to capture details and give the ability to ID. This means all this camera will be able to do/see is the very narrow scope of its job. You can then deploy a more general overview cam to give context to the details. This overview cam can support one or more of your choke point ID cams.
For instance, as an extreme example. I am deploying this camera. It's only job is to see people walking down the path behind my house. This is what I see 99% of the time when I look at the feed.
However, this is what I see when someone walks down the path, 95' feet away.
I then have these two cameras I can use to get a better idea/context of what they were doing and where they may have come from or gone to. The kill zone is between the green lines and the camera is on the fence at the bottom, center of the picture. You can see someone just entering the KZ and the 3.6mm focal length of this cam gives absolutely no details other than it might be a person.
This is the person in the above wide angle shot, and there is no way you would have been able to tell it was a male, in a red, flannel shirt, with sunglasses, and a receding hairline.
You should look at your system as an investment.
Many here will say that the 5442 / 54IR is the best bang for the buck and I would need to agree with them.
I started with Lorex (they use Dahua cameras). I bought and installed a Lorex analog MPX system. They were 2MP cameras in 2.8mm focal lengths. I then won a Lorex giveaway and was sent a 2K IP camera system with 2 turrets and 4 bullets and ran the two systems in parallel.
I managed to get a usable capture of a neighborhood vandal, but it wasn't all that great. It mainly confirmed the suspect, but wasn't good enough to search someone down.
What ultimately pushed me to using Blue Iris and Loryta/Empiretech cameras was when my house was struck by lightning; it took out my Lorex systems and I needed to start over. Cameras multiply like rabbits; once you can see part of your property you will want to see all of your property. This is especially true when something happens and you realize there is a hole in your coverage.
A properly spec'd Loryta/Empiretech camera and system may increase your budget a little, but the goal is to have usable footage. I look at my camera system as an investment; let's say the whole thing has cost me $5000. That is a lot of money, but I now have a higher chance of catching the vandals, thieves, stranger dangerers, etc that come around my house and, because of this, have a greater chance of recovering my loss. If I had not made the investment I would likely be out my loss PLUS adding on the cost of the system for the next time it might happen. We get posts all of the time with people reacting to a loss Stolen Lawn Equipment and Tools
I have had a couple friends get interested in putting in a system, but it never goes anywhere once I tell them it's more than just slapping up a couple cameras from Costco. It does take work, but once set up with quality equipment you should be good to go. One of them recently had a tractor stolen and still has not put a proper system in place.
I have come a long way in a short amount of time and have been fortunate enough to be able to retain the footage to document my learning journey. Check out my thread below. The first group of captures are from my Lorex systems. You can see the difference between a basic system of just wanting to see around your house vs a purposefully installed system of wanting to ID.
Buy once, cry once, and get experience and knowledge along the way.
"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 16,007
- 26,924
Welcome Kickstart.. plan for more cameras than just 8 .. as others note, most of the locations you have listed are way too high for ID purposes.
Some probably are good spots for sunset image captures and the like ..
See the notes on cabling, N+1+ is how I prefer to run cat5e or cat 6 cables when running cables.
Thanks. I've accepted I won't have a perfect system. In terms of IDENTIFY, ideally I would be identify someone breaking in. I don't need to IDENTIFY at long distances. The locations for these would be Cameras 1, 2, 6, and 8. These cameras are as low as I can get them (~10 feet above ground) without having a camera sticking off the side of the house. My hope was to be able to use these cameras to identify. Maybe the 5442 with fixed lens 2.8mm would work?
Cameras 3, 4, 5, and 7 are higher up. Perhaps I could a varifocal like the 5442 ZE for these locations?
Personally I would say no way with a 2.8mm at 10 feet high. Heck I don't even like a 2.8mm at 6 feet high if for IDENTIFY.
I start with 3.6mm minimum.
I think you need the ZE for the 10 feet high ones and if you want IDENTIFY at 2nd story you will need the bullet Z4E.
Look at @Ri22o thread he linked above about "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere" and look at his progression from wide angle to zoom.
If IDENTIFY is what you want, you have to accept the field of view is more narrow.
Once we get over the wide angle, most of us end up zooming in the varifocals even more.
I start with 3.6mm minimum.
I think you need the ZE for the 10 feet high ones and if you want IDENTIFY at 2nd story you will need the bullet Z4E.
Look at @Ri22o thread he linked above about "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere" and look at his progression from wide angle to zoom.
If IDENTIFY is what you want, you have to accept the field of view is more narrow.
Once we get over the wide angle, most of us end up zooming in the varifocals even more.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 16,007
- 26,924
10 feet up means you have to try to ID further away, and that means stronger lenses or varifocal lenes .. see the DORI section of the cliff notes.
This also means you will need more cameras at those locations.
I know you have already advanced significantly in the construction phase and have little time left before the completion of the project.
Unfortunately there are trade offs if you want effective camera coverage.
Do review what ri22o has written.
He did a great job documenting the learning process we all go through.
I know, would be nice to have one camera only on each corner of the roof ..
Note the front of your beautiful house has a more complex geometry and that means more cameras will be needed to get the same results as a smaller basic house.
Makes sense. The Ri22o post is very helpful.
For Cameras 3, 4, 5, and 7, do you have any recommendations for a camera that would be good for overview, active deterrence, and also AI detection to send a push notification? This way I would forego IDENTIFY, but gain some other helpful features
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 16,007
- 26,924
Active deterrence ?
Would you notice little blinky lights up 20 feet ?
Try to avoid the gimmicks and stick with what others here have found useful.
Just trying to think of a way to get the most use out of Cameras 3, 4, 5, and 7.
I'll be able to lower Camera 2, 6, and 8. This should give me identify info for anyone coming through the front door, backdoor, and up the driveway.
I saw the T5241H-AS-PV on the cliffnotes but looks like it doesn't exist anymore.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 16,007
- 26,924
Hi kickstart . Is this your home you plan to live in ? Or Airbnb? Or ??
Help us understand the functionality you may want.
Living in the home.
Main goal is to have a system that will notify me if something may be happening, so I can then check and call police if necessary.
Also be able to Identify anyone coming through the front door, back door, or up the driveway.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 16,007
- 26,924
For the alerts....
That would be more of a security alarm system
I'll drop a post follow when when I am on my desktop
Thanks. Based on reading older posts, looks like active deterrence isn't great.
Cameras 2, 6, and 8 I can lower to 6 feet and use the fixed 2.8 5442. This gives 3 sides of the house with something that can identify
I can add another camera by Camera 4 that is 6 feet off the ground. Now 4 sides of the house have something that can identify
Camera 1 is about 10 feet off the ground, I could use the varifocal 5442 ZE
That just leaves Cameras 3, 4, 5, and 7. Not sure how best to use those. Ideally not a bullet.
Hopefully I'm moving in the right direction here.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 16,007
- 26,924
It is a very nice house, and with the additional size and complex geometry I would be looking at more possible camera positions, running N+1+ cables to each location during the build out. Ideally you want to test the positions before running cables ..
Here's a quick example of my thoughts on the front of the house
