Camera on great horned owl nest

[tangent]

A couple more
IPC-HFW5831E-Z5E
IPC-HFW8231E-Z5 | Dahua Technology

HFW5231E-Z5E
or
HFW5231E-Z12E

Though the above cameras will be better, but if you're married to 4MP for some reason, this one
HFW5431E-Z5E

Quoted links above should work without any issue for you.

If I had put a put something in a tree hoping to attract owls, I probably would have mounted a camera or two in the tree within a couple feet.

 

[looney2ns]

I can tell how you pride yourself for being crass and hurtful. You are so demeaning. My mother always said if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Unfortunately I don't think you'd ever speak again. Since you know so much, why didn't you suggested a camera with the specifications I needed in my price range? I tend to believe what is written on the camera order page. When it says they guarantee delivery in 21-25 days ...it is what it is. Yes they have cameras that they show will ship faster but I wasn't looking for those cameras. You know nothing about the camera maker of the camera I purchased. It is a 9~22mm and I regret it doesn't have more zoom. The camera suggested to me in the beginning was a 2.7~13.5mm. A kind person suggested I probably would be happier with more zoom than that so I almost doubled it. If I didn't have to use a bullet camera I would have had more choices of cameras. I didn't want a camera the owls would perch on.

To be fair, @tangent told you on the first page of this thread the models of two cams with much more zoom. @bigredfish has just repeated the same two. 100's of members here have purchased cams from Andy and received them in 3-5 days, me included. Good luck.

 

[Terri Underhill]

HFW5231E-Z5E
or
HFW5231E-Z12E

Though the above cameras will be better, but if you're married to 4MP for some reason, this one
HFW5431E-Z5E

Thank you so much for this helpful info, I appreciate your time. I'm sorry I totally missed seeing the #15 message from Tangent about the camera's ending in z5 & z12. If those are more than 4mp and 9~22mm lens, goes straight to my router, than those would have been a better choice. I never saw those models on aliexpress. I didn't look at the dahua website cause they didn't show prices.

I really want to understand how you conclude that one camera would be better than another. Why would the 2mp IPC-HFW5231E-Z5E with 7mm ~35mm 5X zoom lens be better for distance than the 4mp, IPC-HFW5431E-Z5E, 7mm ~35mm 5x zoom lens with the exact zoom but more resolution? I am not being facetious I really want to understand this. If I come back here a year from now, I'd like to be able to read what you said and be able to understand what you are talking about. With my simple logic of apples to apples, the 4mp seems like the better choice. And the IPC-HFW5231E-Z12E,2 mp, 5.3mm ~64mm 12x zoom lens looks like it has more reach but lacking resolution. I think my first axis camera was a 2mp many years ago. What Tangent said early on about needing more resolution and the second number needed to be large so I'd have a tight view on the nest, made sense to me.

Maybe next year I can plan ahead and hire a monkey to scale the tree and mount the sibell camera above the nest and I'll put a camera with a higher zoom and more resolution where my sibell camera is. The great horned owls actually claimed the nesting sight in December to keep hawks from reclaiming it. The female has been roosting in the barrel every night since December. I feel certain I will have an owl nesting in my yard each year since I accommodate them I do have another tree in mind on the other side of my house for another barrel that my panasonic camera could see. I have barred owls that need to have a nesting place out of view of the great horned owls so they won't kill each other. It would be perfect since it is by the creek and nature trails. I try to do my part in helping the wildlife around me they don't have a chance with the hand of man.

 

[jon2]

Hi Terri
i have been watching the owls on and off since you put the live feed online well done. i think they is only the one owlet in the nest .. it wont be long before it's leaving the nest and walking about on the branches.. just one thing with the feed i'm getting it may only be my end i dont know but i'm not getting a very good live picture.it looks like it is a substream not a HD in both the zoomed in or zoomed out that you have been streaming,

 

[tangent]

Hi Terri
i have been watching the owls on and off since you put the live feed online well done. i think they is only the one owlet in the nest .. it wont be long before it's leaving the nest and walking about on the branches.. just one thing with the feed i'm getting it may only be my end i dont know but i'm not getting a very good live picture.it looks like it is a substream not a HD in both the zoomed in or zoomed out that you have been streaming,

In the long run it this is going to be a recurring thing, a larger PTZ is probably preferable.

Side note: generally speaking most 4-6 MP security cameras are a bit underwhelming compared to 2MP and 8MP.

 

[Terri Underhill]

Hi Terri
i have been watching the owls on and off since you put the live feed online well done. i think they is only the one owlet in the nest .. it wont be long before it's leaving the nest and walking about on the branches.. just one thing with the feed i'm getting it may only be my end i dont know but i'm not getting a very good live picture.it looks like it is a substream not a HD in both the zoomed in or zoomed out that you have been streaming,

Hi Jon, I'm not sure what happened to my camera. I thought it might be the streaming service cause the Sibell tech can't seem to make it better with camera setting changes. I am at everyones mercy since I don't know how to do anything. If the streaming company says it isn't on their end then I'll have to exchange my camera for another one. They actually have another model that is weatherproof IP67 Long Range Motorized VF License Plate 4 Megapixel 4mp IP Bullet Camera w/ 7-35MM at the same price. Mine currently is 4mp, a 9~22mm. I see where Tangent says that the 4mp isn't that great but if I might end up with a bit more zoom along with the clear picture my camera had in the beginning it might work out. If they won't do that than I might just get my money back. The good thing about amazon is they allow me like a month to return it. So I can reorder another camera and wait until my new camera comes in before I mail off this one. But right now the video sucks. It was excellent in the beginning.

 

[jon2]

Hi Terry, yes i thought it was a lot clearer when you first started streaming. I do agree with Tangent 100% now that iv'e seen what your needs are.. i would if this was mine. i would send it back and see if i could get a refund. and as tangent says forget about the fixed cameras that people have said.. although i will say they very good choices,, i would buy a PTZ camera a pan tilt and zoom.. 2mp is more than good enough for you and a nice 20 times zoom would be fantastic you would be able to see the colour of the babies eye's and you could also follow the parents and the baby when it leaves the nest.A good PTZ would give you more flexibility and i'd guarantee you would like it. i would choose something like this one. although a little bit on the large size you only need to put it up once. US $328.69 5% OFF|Aliexpress.com : Buy New Arrival 2MP 25x Starlight IR PTZ Network Camera SD49225T HN ,free DHL shipping from Reliable network camera suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd
they is a good choice out they but if you stick with 2mp 20x zoom you wont go far wrong,,

 

[Terri Underhill]

Hi Jon, Thanks for the input. Sibell do have a starlight model they might exchange for. But I'd sure like to know if the camera is actually zooming 10x so I'd know what I need. I read somewhere in this forum that Sibell's elite cameras are made by dahua. There's this one that is 2mp. Elite 2MP 5.3-64mm Motorized Pro IP Starlight Long Range,IPOB-ELS2IR12XA-EP . I really need a bullet camera because of the 1" hole I already drilled into the brick
I am going back and forth with them now. But I don't have a clue what they are talking about so I'll have to wait until my friend can tell me what they are talking about.
I'll paste his message here. Maybe you will understand it. All I know is my camera goes to my router and not a nvr.
This is from Sibell, I'm not going to mess with attaching his photo here.:

Hello Terri,

That is definitely not a 4MP image. It looks like you are streaming the substream to your webpage rather than the main stream. How did you add the camera to the webpage? Was it using the RTSP stream URL? Also, because this is a motorized zoom camera, it should stay zoomed in if you are using the PTZ zoom controls to zoom in with the optical zoom. If you do a digital zoom to zoom even further that would not stick. The motorized zoom would only be controllable by logging directly into the camera's web service.

If you are using the RTSP stream, make sure you're using the main profile (rtsp://IPADDRESS:554/Profile1). You can view the stream URL's in the camera's network settings > RTSP. A good way to test what the stream looks like directly from the camera is by using VLC media player. Click the Media menu and then Open network stream. Below is a stream from a 2MP camera, so yours should look even better.

 

[Terri Underhill]

Hi Terry, yes i thought it was a lot clearer when you first started streaming. I do agree with Tangent 100% now that iv'e seen what your needs are.. i would if this was mine. i would send it back and see if i could get a refund. and as tangent says forget about the fixed cameras that people have said.. although i will say they very good choices,, i would buy a PTZ camera a pan tilt and zoom.. 2mp is more than good enough for you and a nice 20 times zoom would be fantastic you would be able to see the colour of the babies eye's and you could also follow the parents and the baby when it leaves the nest.A good PTZ would give you more flexibility and i'd guarantee you would like it. i would choose something like this one. although a little bit on the large size you only need to put it up once. US $328.69 5% OFF|Aliexpress.com : Buy New Arrival 2MP 25x Starlight IR PTZ Network Camera SD49225T HN ,free DHL shipping from Reliable network camera suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd
they is a good choice out they but if you stick with 2mp 20x zoom you wont go far wrong,,

Hi again, I just read up on the camera you sent me a link for and it looks like it needs a nvr and I assume some kind of way to hang it. I would love to have that much zoom for sure. I need to see what they say tomorrow. I told them I need to talk to my friend that sets it up for me.
And yes I have only seen one owlet. I'd think if there was a second one he'd be popping his head up by now. Thanks for watching.

 

[jon2]

I hope they can sort it out for you. it does look like a substream going by the day and time on screen normally that would be clearer.. the camera i sent a link for is just to give you a idea of what would be in my opinion a better choice if not that model one with similar specs don't worry about the hole you drilled i would think all cameras would hide it .. can you view your camera on a Webpage without using the stream can you view it directly if yes is the quality any better..what the company is asking you when you zoom in are you using the zoom feature on the Webpage your streaming from ipcam..or the cameras own Webpage. i think what the company are saying is that you could be using the wrong feature to zoom in on the owls see if they is a different zoom feature not something called optical zoom.

 

[jack7]

Terri, I really enjoyed reading all your owl cam posts, and viewing the cam. I only use my IP cams for wildlife. I have a 4M bullet and a 2M 25X PTZ. The PTZ is by far my favorite cam. I could elaborate more...
I have not used your camera type or iplivecam, but here are some things that might improve your situation while you wait on a PTZ decision, installation, etc.
You wrote "...But I'd sure like to know if the camera is actually zooming 10x so I'd know what I need..."
Your camera should have an optical zoom of ~2.5X. The title in the Amazon listing says 10X optical zoom and is not correct. The lense focal length is 9-22mm. Zoom is normally calculated as 22 divided by 9 which is ~2.5X. For a better description of your camera, go to website of who you bought it from:
Sibell IP Cameras 4MP Sibell IP IR Motorized Zoom License Plate Security Camera
Go to DocumentDownloads there for detailed product specifications and user manual. See page 7&8 of the user manual. I suggest using the AZ Control icon at the bottom of the Web interface to use optical zoom. The + and - to the left of the AZ icon are probably digital zoom and only for the Web interface. The camera does not know about digital zoom and will not stream it.
Regarding the image quality provided by ipcamlive. I suspect the problem is in your camera settings, and possibly your understanding of ipcamlive.
The following is from the FAQS and Pricing sections on the ipcamlive webpage:
The maximum supported resolution of the incoming video stream from the camera is 1920x1080.
The maximum bandwidth for your camera under the Standard plan is 2mbps.
In your camera Web interface, I suggest setting your resolution to 1920x1080@12fps, or 1280x720@25fps. It depends on your quality vs smoother motion concerns. You can experiment with it, and change bitrate setting to see if it can reduce bandwidth without reducing wanted quality. See page 18 of user manual.
When you change your camera setting to 1920x1080, your camera will probably just stream a 1920x1080 section out of the middle of your 4M sensor. So you would be just getting smaller field of view. That may be fine for your owl cam.
If desired, I will contact your website feedback to further describe my PTZ wildlife experiences and some things about installation.

 

[Terri Underhill]

Terri, I really enjoyed reading all your owl cam posts, and viewing the cam. I only use my IP cams for wildlife. I have a 4M bullet and a 2M 25X PTZ. The PTZ is by far my favorite cam. I could elaborate more...
I have not used your camera type or iplivecam, but here are some things that might improve your situation while you wait on a PTZ decision, installation, etc.
You wrote "...But I'd sure like to know if the camera is actually zooming 10x so I'd know what I need..."
Your camera should have an optical zoom of ~2.5X. The title in the Amazon listing says 10X optical zoom and is not correct. The lense focal length is 9-22mm. Zoom is normally calculated as 22 divided by 9 which is ~2.5X. For a better description of your camera, go to website of who you bought it from:
Sibell IP Cameras 4MP Sibell IP IR Motorized Zoom License Plate Security Camera
Go to DocumentDownloads there for detailed product specifications and user manual. See page 7&8 of the user manual. I suggest using the AZ Control icon at the bottom of the Web interface to use optical zoom. The + and - to the left of the AZ icon are probably digital zoom and only for the Web interface. The camera does not know about digital zoom and will not stream it.
Regarding the image quality provided by ipcamlive. I suspect the problem is in your camera settings, and possibly your understanding of ipcamlive.
The following is from the FAQS and Pricing sections on the ipcamlive webpage:
The maximum supported resolution of the incoming video stream from the camera is 1920x1080.
The maximum bandwidth for your camera under the Standard plan is 2mbps.
In your camera Web interface, I suggest setting your resolution to 1920x1080@12fps, or 1280x720@25fps. It depends on your quality vs smoother motion concerns. You can experiment with it, and change bitrate setting to see if it can reduce bandwidth without reducing wanted quality. See page 18 of user manual.
When you change your camera setting to 1920x1080, your camera will probably just stream a 1920x1080 section out of the middle of your 4M sensor. So you would be just getting smaller field of view. That may be fine for your owl cam.
If desired, I will contact your website feedback to further describe my PTZ wildlife experiences and some things about installation.

Good to hear from you Jack! I will forward your info to my friend now. I think she will understand it better than me. I LOVE wildlife! Much more than I do people. My favorite camera I have is my panasonic bb-hcm581a network camera 42x Zoom (21x optical) wildlife cam I have on my deer feeder. We have had as many as 12 deer feeding and the largest buck was a 14 point. I put it up in 2011 and I'll need to replace it one of these days.. And right now I just have a foscam on my platform feeder but I have a raccoon that has figured out how to get past the raccoon baffle so I need to reset my platform on a taller pipe. I keep a laptop in my kitchen tuned to my cam so I know when the deer come in. The Panasonic is not great at night but we keep a light on it that helps. It has been a great camera and I've never had a problem with it. I have three monitors around my house so I can hear all the wildlife outside 24/7. I pretty much know all my yard bird calls by one note. Visually I have an awesome habitat for wildlife but audibly I have a birders paradise. All my birds sing because they are happy
Any info you have to offer, I am all ears.
I will have my girlfriend check on my settings and see if she can correct things. But I did a reset and the picture still sucks. PS when I pulled in my driveway this evening both parent owls were in the tree above the owlet. Nothing makes me more proud than knowing I offered them a place to nest and they accepted it <3 Once the owlet fledges maybe I'll aim the camera at my great crested flycatcher nest. They have nested in the same box for close to twenty years.

 

[Terri Underhill]

Jack, You have no idea how much I appreciate your time. You saved the day! My friend understood everything you said and it was tremendously helpful. I think the picture is back on track. I do think I will return my camera for a PTZ since my camera obviously wasn't a 10x like advertised. I knew there had to be a way to calculate the actual percentage. Is your wildlife cam viewable to the public? I need to make a decision pretty quick and order a replacement camera. Here's the better view with your suggest changes. Once I get a camera with better zoom it will be even better to watch. Actually it will probably just be more graphic to watch her ripping up her food and eating it up close Blessings to you kind sir!
Owl Cam « Okie Bird Cam Blog

 

[Terri Underhill]

I have not seen either parent come to feed the baby since four this afternoon. It is cold and raining. I don't think the baby will make it through the night if the parents don't come back soon We threw some raw chicken meat up into the barrel so the baby might eat. I can't stop crying, I am so sad. I feel so responsible. I am beside myself with worry. The seller has approved my refund. And it looks like I might not be in a hurry for a new one other than having a 1" hole in my brick.
Owl Cam « Okie Bird Cam Blog

 

[jon2]

I have not seen either parent come to feed the baby since four this afternoon. It is cold and raining. I don't think the baby will make it through the night if the parents don't come back soon We threw some raw chicken meat up into the barrel so the baby might eat. I can't stop crying, I am so sad. I feel so responsible. I am beside myself with worry. The seller has approved my refund. And it looks like I might not be in a hurry for a new one other than having a 1" hole in my brick.
Owl Cam « Okie Bird Cam Blog

Hi Terry
the parents won't leave the baby .the worst thing you can do is start going near the nest and chuck food up the parents will be close by watching. the parents have been to the nest this morning . ia'm glad you can get a refund for the camera now its working ok it dosen't look to bad. but you would be better of with a good ptz .just out of interest is they a position on your property were you could place the ptz and get a view of both owls nest like on the corner of the property think of a good place to put one,

 

[Terri Underhill]

Hey Jon,
Everyone has seen the parent except me Thank you for telling me you saw them I really thought the baby died and I cried all night. I have not even heard them. I think one parent didn't make it and only one parent is feeding the baby I think the female is the one that made it and she isn't as good of a hunter. I think the barred owls will use my new nest location I'm planning by my deer cam without a problem since they nest much later than the GHO. My great horned owls claimed this nest in november even though they didn't lay eggs until feb to keep other predators from claiming it. Owls don't build a nest. They take over other nests or use a hollow tree. Since this world is fixated in having perfectly manicured lawns the wildlife don't have a chance.
I think my barred owls from 2017 nested in march and their babies fledged in mid may.
This pair of GH Owls lost their first clutch to hail so they are a month behind and I wasn't sure if they'd try again. I don't think the present camera location can aim at the great crested flycatcher box unless it comes out far enough to miss the eave.
I need to decide on a camera. I don't know what will work. I am confused since so many lie about the amount of zoom. Plus I'll have to talk my brother in law info helping me again
I attached a google map showing where my cameras are on our property. Thanks again.
I also attached a pic showing where my panasonic ptz camera is that shows the deer feeder. I also have a foscam in a bluebird feeder box a foot in front of my platform feeder. I have it set up so while looking at the birds on the platform feeder you can see through it to the deer feeder in the background. It also shows where I want to put an owl nest so my panasonic ptz camera can see it.
Owl Cam « Okie Bird Cam Blog

 

[jon2]

Hi Terri
Only you can say were the best place is to put a camera on your property. Because you are the one who knows were the wildlife is and the nesting birds are. I've looked at the other cameras you have and it might be the app you're using but they not very good quality videos. Not very clear. As for the zoom your talking about. Go for 10 plus zoom probably something like 20 times zoom. And 2 megapixel you shouldn't really need anything much more than that. And nobody on here will lie to you. If someone suggests a camera that they think will suit your needs..the one I sent a link to is a good choice and does not need a dvr.. And as for the owlet the little guy is doing great the parents are feeding the little one I've seen one of the parents every day.

 

[looney2ns]

This would be one reason to record the camera, as you can't sit and watch it 24/7. So absolutely you will miss activity.

 

[Terri Underhill]

Hi Terri
Only you can say were the best place is to put a camera on your property. Because you are the one who knows were the wildlife is and the nesting birds are. I've looked at the other cameras you have and it might be the app you're using but they not very good quality videos. Not very clear. As for the zoom your talking about. Go for 10 plus zoom probably something like 20 times zoom. And 2 megapixel you shouldn't really need anything much more than that. And nobody on here will lie to you. If someone suggests a camera that they think will suit your needs..the one I sent a link to is a good choice and does not need a dvr.. And as for the owlet the little guy is doing great the parents are feeding the little one I've seen one of the parents every day.

Jon and All, I'm so glad you got to see my owlet being fed. There is so much food in the barrel that the little owl has been standing up on a rabbit so he can see out better I've been so afraid the wind will blow him out of the nest. I have a pond right below and I'd feel terrible if he drown.

I did not mean that people here on the forum lie to me. I meant that the description on the cameras are deceptive when they say they are 10x and you have to take their numbers and calculate what the actual zoom is.
I did order a new camera from Amazon Prime on the 15th and it should arrive this afternoon. It's model SD49225T-HN 2MP 25x Starlight IR PTZ Network Camera. With my added discover points it was 356.00. I know what you are thinking and before you all start cussing let me explain. The seller is CameraKing2019 which is Andy's store You should be happy and I hope you guys will feel obligated to be nice and help me

I can not believe I am drilling another hole through the brick of my house but a PTZ camera won't look good mounted off center. My husband is not pleased with me right now. He has been very tolerant over the years when I've had a wild hair to do my off the wall projects and I've had a few.. He is terribly afraid of heights and thinks I am imposing on my brother-in-law asking for help again. I never asked for help before I had a quadruple bypass two years ago. And last year I nearly lost my right arm in a head on collision and I didn't get full function of my right arm so it's been a real bummer. I now have two 7" plates in my arm. I attached a pic in case you think I am making it up. So I am hell bent on not letting the bad luck of the past two years discourage me. This dahua has to be a good experience.

So here's my thoughts.. this new camera will need to be centered in the highest peak to look right. Even though this dahua will be hung higher, the view of the nest might be lower than the bullet camera right? I've attached a few pics so you can tell me what you think. I am trying to have an open mind but I think it just stick out like a sore thumb if I mounted it on the rafter, right? This is my last chance and I don't want it to look like hell.. My concern about having it on the rafter is the owls and hawks will use it as a perch and poop all over it
I think the only way I can get to the highest point is with the ladder the way I have it in the picture. I think if I tried to run it straight up to the second level, the lower roof would prevent the ladder from leaning against the brick. Weather permitting tomorrow I'm going to try myself before I ask my brother-in-law for help. I'm not sure I can hold the drill over my head with the long bit to get enough pressure to get through the 2 1/2" brick. If I can do this myself, will it be okay if I mount the camera bracket using just two long bolts all the way through the brick using wing nuts on the inside of the attic?
Can I use the same adapter on the dahua that I used on my sibell camera? I think is was 15w. I am not using poe and it will run to my router.
I ordered a card and it won't be here until tomorrow. I ordered a SanDisk 128GB Extreme microSD UHS-I Card with Adapter - U3 A2 - SDSQXA1-128G-GN6MA by SanDisk. Will this card work okay and is the SD slot easy to get to? Will it be impossible to get to the card slot after the camera is hung? Do I format the card on my PC or is it done in the camera?
If you have any pointers I'd appreciate your constructive thoughts.
Sorry for all the questions. You guys please be nice and help me save face with my husband. I will take my lashings and you can stand in line and each of you can tell me 'I told you so' only positive and helpful answers please? This has been stressful.
Thank you for your time.
Terri

 

[Terri Underhill]

UPS just dropped off my camera! My Bailey boy always wants to be in the picture. He thinks the box is for him to play in. Silly cat, but he is right Oh happy day And it actually says Dahua on the box! How cool is that ! I have three hours of sunlight. I wish I had the sd card already.
I have another question about mounting the camera on the bracket. Can I turn the camera a bit to the left before attaching it to the bracket since the nest is a bit to the left? Or is the camera able to turn all the way to the left on its own. I sure hope there won't be an issue with the camera aiming up a bit. Can ya'll tell by looking at my photo in the previous message if I'll have an issue with the mounting angle?