Current Logitech Alert user, Seeking Alternatives

[skiracerblah]

Hi everyone i just joined the forums. I currently have 6 Logitech Alert cameras both indoor and outdoor IR cameras. I was somewhat satisfied with the cameras, but since Logitech decided to discontinue making them, i need to find alternatives when/if my cameras break and would like to continue to use my Logitech cameras. Here are the likes/dislikes of the Logitech Alert system and wondering if you could refer me to a camera and software package which can produce a similar experience. Note, i am proficient in Windows software, but i have very minimal knowledge of networking.

Likes:
1. Uses powerline adapters for cameras. If i get other camera brand with a powerline adapter, will this conflict with the Logitech powerline adapters? Are wifi cameras up to par since i have a new Asus router using the new AC networking standard.
2. Very easy setup and no knowledge of networking is needed to get system running.
3. Email alerts on motion detection.
4. Records onto MicroSD card onto my camera, then videos download onto my laptop when i turn on the software.
5. Watch video on web browser or iOS or Android via Logitech app
6. Cameras cost anywhere from $200-$300 ish


Dislikes:
1. Logitech stopped making these cameras!
2. signal between computer and camera cuts out every few minutes with all my cameras. My friend also has same problem with his Logitech system. Logitech problem or problem with powerline adapters in general? Note, my house has aluminum wiring if that matters
3. Video quality could be better.
4. Logitech app won't stream realtime continuously and u need to hit refresh button every few minutes. I need real time streaming since i use 1 camera as a baby monitor. Note, i'm running IP Cam Viewer on my Nexus 7 Android tablet so i can use my camera as a baby monitor on my local network.


Just glancing on the forums, seems HikVision cameras and Blue Iris Software are the most popular choices?

I was attempting to do research on cameras and stumbled upon Samsung Smartcam and D-link camera systems. Those any good?

 

[Zxel]

Welcome to the forums!

I had a Logitech Alert system for over three years consisting of a 750e and three 700e models, I recently sold the three 700e cameras on Ebay for over $1,000 and will sell the 750e soon. I ended up selling them for more than I paid for them - and I used them for over three years! You really should sell them now while they are hot, it will pay for your new cameras.

Take a look at this thread and you can see I'm in the same boat as you (there are several other threads on camera choices besides these). There are a few things you should be aware of on replacing the Logitech's:

1. Logitech cameras have a 130 degree viewing angle and you wont find that in any main stream camera, it is likely you will need more to cover the same area.
2. Logitech Alert software's method of grabbing the video off of the SD cards and putting it in a time line is unique, never seen software that does it like Logitech does.
3. The extreemly easy setup with no knowledge of networking is hard to find (although there are models out that say they are - take it with a grain of salt).

To answer your questions:

1. Uses powerline adapters for cameras. If i get other camera brand with a powerline adapter, will this conflict with the Logitech powerline adapters? Are wifi cameras up to par since i have a new Asus router using the new AC networking standard.
2. Very easy setup and no knowledge of networking is needed to get system running.
3. Email alerts on motion detection.
4. Records onto MicroSD card onto my camera, then videos download onto my laptop when i turn on the software.
5. Watch video on web browser or iOS or Android via Logitech app
6. Cameras cost anywhere from $200-$300 ish

1. As long as they follow the powerline standard (see here) you wont have a problem.
2. Wont be as easy, however, you can get a professional consultant to design your system (many companies offer it for free), or get help here.
3. Many cameras will do this, however, the software you're using as the NVR will handle that - no sweat.
4. Recording onto the SD card (as long as the camera has one) is easy enough - you will usually have to use ftp to get them off though. This is not as big a deal as you may think, SD card recording is usually only done to protect from the NVR getting stolen in a theft situation. There are other methods besides SD cards to do this if it's a concern.
5. All the main stream NVR software out there has this now.
6. Your price range is correct, although you can get the cameras you want far cheaper if you have some patience (order direct from china).

1. Logitech stopped making these cameras!
2. signal between computer and camera cuts out every few minutes with all my cameras. My friend also has same problem with his Logitech system. Logitech problem or problem with powerline adapters in general? Note, my house has aluminum wiring if that matters
3. Video quality could be better.
4. Logitech app won't stream realtime continuously and u need to hit refresh button every few minutes. I need real time streaming since i use 1 camera as a baby monitor. Note, i'm running IP Cam Viewer on my Nexus 7 Android tablet so i can use my camera as a baby monitor on my local network.


Just glancing on the forums, seems HikVision cameras and Blue Iris Software are the most popular choices?

I was attempting to do research on cameras and stumbled upon Samsung Smartcam and D-link camera systems. Those any good?

1. Yuppers - awesome for you, now you can sell them for more than you paid for them (but that will only be a short window - do it now)
2. As long as you have strong powerline signal shouldn't be an issue (but there are many things that can disrupt the signal), however, you REALLY should look into having POE cable installed - it isn't that expensive to have a professional do it for you. This will give you the best quality and ease of use - plus it is a clean look also.
3. Considering the resolution and 130 degree view the Logitech camera quality is very good, although any decent camera you get today will be far superior to it.
4. I used BI (Blue Iris) to record all my cameras 24/7, and let the cameras motion detection and SD card storage handle the theft issue, any NVR software will do this.


Hikvision and Dahua are the cameras of choice currently (mostly for bang for the buck reasons) and BI the software of choice, however, there are other camera models and software that are just as good or better - just at a much higher price point. I'm in the same search now and it can be daunting, there are many fine cameras out there now (unlike when Logitech first came out).

I suggest taking your time researching cameras as there are new models coming out shortly, although you can save money because last years models are on sale.

 

[fenderman]

@Zxel..with respect to the angle of view...i have figured out why the images from the logitech 750e look just as wide if not narrower than the images from the 2.8mm hikvisions...Logitech rates the viewing angle measured diagonally http://support.logitech.com/product/7252 While hikvision rates the horizontal viewing angle...i cant find a spec sheet that says horizontal but you can see it in some product descriptions for the china market cameras http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6YJ2BU0736
Dahua specifies that they use the horizontal viewing angles in their literature..
As you can see here user MaxIcon did the measurements and its pretty much consistent with the spec sheet
http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=41417

 

[LittleBrother]

3. The extreemly easy setup with no knowledge of networking is hard to find (although there are models out that say they are - take it with a grain of salt).

Dropcam is absolutely as easy as they claim. I cannot imagine an easier setup. There are other shortcomings with that solution of course.

As Zxel points out the resale value on these Logitechs defies explanation, belief, or sanity. You owe it to yourself to take advantage of this and clear these cameras out while you can.

 

[Zxel]

Dropcam is absolutely as easy as they claim. I cannot imagine an easier setup. There are other shortcomings with that solution of course.

Ya, I know about Dropcam's - but I figure it's my duty to steer people away from them - it is an outrageously overpriced lame solution - IMO.

 

[skiracerblah]

wow, that's one heck of a response. I'll have to spend some time researching. Thanks a bunch! I'm sure i'll have some other minor questions after doing a bit more digging.

 

[Zxel]

@Zxel..with respect to the angle of view...i have figured out why the images from the logitech 750e look just as wide if not narrower than the images from the 2.8mm hikvisions...Logitech rates the viewing angle measured diagonally http://support.logitech.com/product/7252 While hikvision rates the horizontal viewing angle...i cant find a spec sheet that says horizontal but you can see it in some product descriptions for the china market cameras http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6YJ2BU0736
Dahua specifies that they use the horizontal viewing angles in their literature..
As you can see here user MaxIcon did the measurements and its pretty much consistent with the spec sheet
http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=41417

LOL, I know this is bugging you and I tried to validate your assertion, however, I could not.

I did find several things to support the Logitech's 130 degree claimed FOV (one place I found stated it as technically 132 degrees - hehe). Logitech has removed their tech specs statement on the cameras from their site, however, I did find them in russian (use chrome to transalte it) and the key here is the focal length is 5mm (you'll need that number for math later).

Here is some talk/info on it I found:

1. Long thread but you will see the 132 degree's mentioned in here (although most of it is about IR additions).
2. Review over at PCmag where they comment on the extreme wide angle.
3. A thread on the Logitech site discussing the 130 degree FOV and a link to the specs (which is a dead link - but the russian link mentioned has the info).
4. Explanation of focal length by Nikon.

I searched but could not find anything definitive to contradict Logitech's claim of 130 degree FOV, I did see it repeated many places. I really think it is unlikely that Logitech could get away with such a bold statement and not get pegged on it - those camera models where heavily reviewed by many many competent organizations.

So the mystery continues.

 

[fenderman]

@Zxel, If you click on the link i provided and select view full specifications you will see that I am indeed correct...the angle of view is diagonal....they are technically correct..it is in fact 132 degree diagonally, which translates to about 100 degrees horizontally give or take a few, and in many photo/camera circles the diagonal is the standard measure...
Hikvision gives you the info for the horizontal angle of view...so in fact its just about the same...
Regardless, you can tell by the image alone...the eye doesn't lie..

 

[Zxel]

@Zxel, If you click on the link i provided and select view full specifications you will see that I am indeed correct...the angle of view is diagonal....they are technically correct..it is in fact 132 degree diagonally, which translates to about 100 degrees horizontally give or take a few, and in many photo/camera circles the diagonal is the standard measure...
Hikvision gives you the info for the horizontal angle of view...so in fact its just about the same...
Regardless, you can tell by the image alone...the eye doesn't lie..

I missed that tiny "full specifications" link - thanks for the attachment, however, at a 4:3 aspect ratio that still comes out to 104 degrees horizontal - and that is still quite a bit wider than all the main stream cameras mentioned on this board.

If you consider the time the Logitechs came out and what was available then you will have to admit (or maybe not - lol) they where excellent cameras.

 

[fenderman]

the 2.8mm hikvision will be 98.2 at 1080p we are talking about less than a 6 degree difference IF the manufactures numbers are precise and your calculation to 104 is accurate (which its not).......That is close enough not to make a difference...that website you got the 104 number from is not accurate...its a general approximation when applied to tv screens...and cannot be applied directly to cameras and as the viewing angle gets higher the numbers are skewed...

In fact i think based on the images i have seen that the hikvision is indeed wider...maybe you can test it of you get a 2.8mm hikvision before you sell the 750e
I agree that in their time they were great cameras.....but that has long passed...

 

[Zxel]

the 2.8mm hikvision will be 98.2 at 1080p we are talking about less than a 6 degree difference IF the manufactures numbers are precise.......That is close enough not to make a difference

You got that right - IF the specs are correct - I found alot of people swearing they aren't - but that discussion looked like a huge can of worms, one I'll avoid. For sure I couldn't tell the FOV of the camera pics you posted.

In fact i think based on the images i have seen that the hikvision is indeed wider...maybe you can test it of you get a 2.8mm hikvision before you sell the 750e

That's the plan - the funds for my camera will be released to me friday, so I'll purchase a single camera on that day and do a side by side comparison when I receive it. I hope you're right because I'd like to keep the same mount points for the cameras (they're already wired for POE). Now all I have to do is decide which camera to get for the comparison, I have 2 more days to decide - Ugh!

I agree that in their time they were great cameras.....but that has long passed...

Agreed, and if you bought them when they were at the top of the camera food chain, you got years of use, and can now sell them for more than you paid for them to get the new latest greatest (jealous?).

Seriously, I consider them a good buy decision at the time I bought them. I really do appreciate your input, I doubt I'll get the same after use sell results of the Logitech.

 

[fenderman]

Looking forward to the side by side...
You will never have a scenario like logitech again at least not with ip cameras...its a special case...Even with the logitechs, it should not be happening, folks just dont want to mess with what they know works for them, but it makes no sense...

 

[Zxel]

Looking forward to the side by side...
You will never have a scenario like logitech again at least not with ip cameras...its a special case...Even with the logitechs, it should not be happening, folks just dont want to mess with what they know works for them, but it makes no sense...

But it does make dollars.

P.S. My two favorite smilies are not here - the :wink: and the :tongue: - are they not pc anymore?

 

[fenderman]

These? :tongue-new:
:wink-new:

 

[Zxel]

Close - the wink is just a wink and no tongue out. The first one is technically a tongue but notice how both look like a 3rd grader drew them? They make them in polished versions that match your and icons. The "normal" code for them is ;-) for the wink and for the tongue. You can see them in most chat software using those codes.

I thought for sure they came standard in vBulletin, I'll have to ask the guy who does the vBulletin *stuff* in the business - he's got an upgrade of a clients vBulletin forum on his plate currently, he'll know for sure. I can do all the vBulletin backend php stuff (I'm a developer) - but he handles all the frontend *stuff* (unless there is something technical he needs help on).

Not a biggie - just miss them.

 

[skiracerblah]

Ok, assuming i have very minimal experience in networking, how hard will it be to replicate the features used in Logitech Alert Software/mobile apps/ web browser viewing using Blue Iris Software? Note, i have a little baby to take care of so i don't have a lot of time to spend learning this. My friend taught me how to use netstat -n to find the IP addresses of my Logitech cams so i can use third party viewing software within my own LAN. He also taught me how to assign an IP to my cameras on my wireless router. That's the extent of my networking experience

Long shot, but can a non-Logitech camera work with the Logitech Alert Software? This way i don't have to bother learning a new software package...


I currently have my Logitech Alert software on a dedicated cheap $400 laptop with a 500GB hard drive I bought on a Black Friday Special. Does this laptop need to be running 24/7 with Blue Iris on for me to view my cameras remotely thru the internet and/or mobile device?

 

[Zxel]

Ok, assuming i have very minimal experience in networking, how hard will it be to replicate the features used in Logitech Alert Software/mobile apps/ web browser viewing using Blue Iris Software? Note, i have a little baby to take care of so i don't have a lot of time to spend learning this. My friend taught me how to use netstat -n to find the IP addresses of my Logitech cams so i can use third party viewing software within my own LAN. He also taught me how to assign an IP to my cameras on my wireless router. That's the extent of my networking experience

The network experience should not be an issue, camera setups use only basic network features. The toughest thing you'd have to do network wise is port forward (using your router) the webserver port your NVR uses to serve up it's pages. Depending on the cameras you choose it may be a slight pain in the arse to set them up the first time - because some manufacturers use a fixed IP for their cameras and you might have to modify your network topology a bit when setting them up (then you can put it back). The network setup to configure the cameras is a one time deal, so I don't consider that a big problem. It also depends on WHO you buy your cameras from - some professional sellers will pre-configure your cameras for you if you ask (so they will be plug and play).

Long shot, but can a non-Logitech camera work with the Logitech Alert Software? This way i don't have to bother learning a new software package...

NO

I currently have my Logitech Alert software on a dedicated cheap $400 laptop with a 500GB hard drive I bought on a Black Friday Special. Does this laptop need to be running 24/7 with Blue Iris on for me to view my cameras remotely thru the internet and/or mobile device?

YES

You didn't give the specs on your laptop - so I can't even tell you for sure it has enough power to run BI. You can download a 15day trial version to see how it works with your existing cameras, the Logitechs are supported and you can run it at the same time your Logitech Alert software is running - they don't conflict, however, it may be too much for your laptop - duno. I run BI 24/7 and only open the Logitech Alert software to do firmware updates and camera diagnostics - I don't keep it running (the Logitech Alert cloud doesn't require it to be running to view your cameras - it feeds directly from the cameras).

You may want to check out an inexpensive 8 channel NVR like this one at Nelly's or even a fancier one and not even bother with BI at all, it really depends on what cameras you choose and what you want to do.

There is no solid advice that can be given to you on specific products or setups until you choose the cameras you are going to use - it makes a big difference for many reasons. If you at least know the MegaPixels you want in the camera and the camera manufacturer you're going to use that would be enough to give out the basics.

The normal advice is to get everything from the same manufacturer, however, this is not always the case. Some people like certain cameras for certain areas and others for other areas because they are looking to match the features they need for that area (like sound is not needed everywhere - but you may want it at your door - stuff like that), you can mix and match but you may want to avoid that considering your self professed lameness.

Really the cameras are your starting point - once you have decided on them the rest will flow easy.

 

[LittleBrother]

Ya, I know about Dropcam's - but I figure it's my duty to steer people away from them - it is an outrageously overpriced lame solution - IMO.

I still have a bit of a soft spot for Dropcam I have to admit because I still think for some people it is a good solution. I am very comfortable saying it's the easiest solution in literally the entire market place, short of paying somebody else, to get security cams setup around one's home. They are crazy easy to setup, and pretty darn reliable. The shortcomings are in image quality, wifi necessity, bandwidth, and, most pronounced, the monthly cost, which turns a ton of people off them.

 

[fenderman]

I still have a bit of a soft spot for Dropcam I have to admit because I still think for some people it is a good solution. I am very comfortable saying it's the easiest solution in literally the entire market place, short of paying somebody else, to get security cams setup around one's home. They are crazy easy to setup, and pretty darn reliable. The shortcomings are in image quality, wifi necessity, bandwidth, and, most pronounced, the monthly cost, which turns a ton of people off them.

The cost is simply insane though...assuming only 3 cams it will be a perpetual 200-600 PER year depending on whether they want 7 days or 30 days of recording...

 

[skiracerblah]

Here's the cheapo laptop i got on Black Friday Special:
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Satellite-C55-A5302-15-6-Laptop/dp/B00G2J0XUA

• Intel Pentium Processor 2020M
• 6GB DDR3 1600MHz memory, Intel Integrated Graphics
• 500GB HDD (5400rpm, Serial ATA),DVD-SuperMulti drive (+/-R double layer)
• Windows 8

I'm guessing most laptops aren't designed to be running 24/7, especially a lower end model like this. So, i need to get a desktop PC?


On another front, i found a camera system which behaves similar to the Logitech Alert camera system and its made by D-link. Here's their top of the line HD Outdoor camera. Ya i'm sure its not as good as most of the hardware people use on this forum, but simplicity is very important to me: http://us.dlink.com/products/home-solutions/outdoor-hd-wireless-network-cloud-camera/