Dahua 8mp NON-Starlight HDW5830R-Z review

[RJF]

Hi RJF,

Depends, on how much normal light you have. If you have for example decent street lighting - having the image in color is very useful to help ID cars and suspects.

If you do not have enough light, it is better to have it in IR / Black and White than very poor color images.

Thanks very much. Do you happen to know the advantages/disadvantages of "high sensitivity" vs. "low sensitivity"? I have looked and can't seem to find any explanation.

 

[looney2ns]

Thanks very much. Do you happen to know the advantages/disadvantages of "high sensitivity" vs. "low sensitivity"? I have looked and can't seem to find any explanation.

It determines how light or dark it needs to be for the cam to switch from B&W to Color.

 

[RJF]

It determines how light or dark it needs to be for the cam to switch from B&W to Color.

Thanks very much. Given that I have starlights, and there is quite a bit of light from my front porch light as well as street lights, what would you recommend to maximize chances of getting clear faces?

Put differently, assuming the camera goes to color at high sensitivity and B&W at low sensitivity, which setting would get the best face captures?

[For clarity, one of my starlights is in such a well-lit area that it will never go to B&W; I assume there is no reason to force it to do that.]

 

[RJF]

This is a review of the 8mp NON-Starlight HDW5830R-Z camera. I will also do some side by side comparisons with a 2mp Starlight HDW5231R-Z.

The camera is all metal and appears to be basically the same size as the starlight model. You will have to take it apart to insert an SD card. One big difference is the small set screw (camera comes with a tool) is not the exact same size as the one on the starlight models, so don't loose that tool!

Features:

1/2.5" 8mp progressive scan STARVIS CMOS (this is NOT a starlight chip!)
H.265 & H.264 dual stream encoding
15fps@4k(3849x2160), 25/30fps@3M(2304x1296)
Day/Night(ICR),3DNR,AWB,AGC,BLC
2.7mm-12mm motorized lens
Built In Mic
MAX IR LEDs Length 50m
IP67,IK10,Poe

Product Page
User Manual
Quick Start Guide
Spec Sheet

Bought through @EMPIRECANDY - Online store

I'm not going to clutter this thread with pictures of the web interface as they are 99% similar to the starlight model and you can see some in the original 2mp starlight review.



I currently have an all Dahua setup with an NVR5216 and 9 various starlight models. A common question that is asked over and over is about higher mp cameras. I really like the starlight models but I wanted to experiment with something with a bit more resolution. There were already comparisons between the 2mp starlights and other 3 and 4 mp models and the starlights overall won. I wanted to see what the 8mp could do.


I currently have a HDW5231R-Z covering my driveway zoomed about halfway in. Near the top of the driveway closest to the camera I feel I can get a good identity. Further down the driveway closer to the garage doors it really starts to drop off. I do have another starlight down there, but I am hoping that the 8mp can do the job of both, and that I could repurpose that other starlight for something else. I have a test pole I use for test placing cameras and I placed the 8mp right next to the 2mp underneath the soffit for testing and tried to get it zoomed as close as possible to the 2mp. The number zoom in the web interface wasn't the exact same, maybe due to slight changes in the lense and the different chips.

I printed out a license plate image I found online to the closest size as my real plates (and even printed a 50% reduced one) and setup this up on a stand. My driveway is somewhat lit and I currently have the IR turned off on all my external starlights (to avoid bugs) as there is sufficient external lighting. I have bought some external IRs but have not mounted them yet.

Below are various screenshots I've taken from SmartPSS comparing the 2mp to the 8mp. Without a doubt, in the daylight, as expected, the 8mp really really shines, IF you need to ZOOM in. I'm amazed at how much I can zoom in and still get good resolution. At the light drops, the 8mp has a harder time keeping it up. At it's worst, in a somewhat still lit environment, I'm basically seeing the same resolution as the starlight. At least it's not worse. As it gets darker, one can see the starlight start to excel showing more detail in poorer lit areas where the 8mp stays darker. In the night shots, I tested with both my garage lights on and off. Keep in mind, my neighbors have lights too that were always on. I did try turning on the IR but I only saw the ground near the top of the driveway getting brighter and didn't see any impact on my license plate test so didn't test any further. For the daylight test, since it was that much clearer, I went ahead and moved the test sign further down to see how much further I could still read them. The license plates are approx 60-70' (guessing) from the camera. For the daylight shot where I moved them further down that is maybe another 15-20' away?

I had my kids walk around in the daytime and I could definitely identify them at greater distances by zooming in. At night, that would only happen if the area was really well lit.

So it's a tough call. The 8mp camera does cost a bit more. You definitely get a huge day time improvement IF you are wanting to identity something further away. Looking at both models full screen, I can't see a difference if that's all you are after. At night, it basically degrades to a 2mp, that at least in some areas better lit might offer a tiny bit more detail in return for less detail in darker areas.

Right now, based on these results, my plans are to go ahead and replace that driveway starlight with the 8mp and maybe move my second starlight at the garage door further down to better cover that darker part of the driveway. Also going to update the driveway floodlights.

Daytime comparison (with the test license plate at the further distance)

View attachment 20783

Daytime zoom of license plates at both distances - Left: 2mp Right: 8mp

View attachment 20784 View attachment 20785

2mp Starlight with driveway lights on

View attachment 20787

8mp with driveway lights on

View attachment 20788

2mp driveway lights off

View attachment 20790

8mp driveway lights off

View attachment 20791

Side by Side driveway lights on - Left: 2mp Right: 8mp

View attachment 20792

Driveway lights on, zoomed in (closer distance) - Left: 2mp Right: 8mp

View attachment 20793

Driveway lights off, zoomed in (closer distance) - Left: 2mp Right: 8mp

View attachment 20794

This is an awesome review. Thanks so much. Hopefully this isn't a dumb question, but I'm still in the process of learning about these cameras. I have a starlight HDW5231-R-Z I'm considering replacing with one of these cameras. The ambient lighting at night is pretty good (in auto settings the camera will never switch to B&W) and the distance is very short (I'm just trying to capture faces). A picture of the scene is below for reference.

Under these circumstances, do you think the 8MP would do a better job of capturing clear faces of walking people, or do the picture comparisons in your post apply regardless of whether the subject is moving or standing still?

Thanks very much in advance.

 

[mat200]

This is an awesome review. Thanks so much. Hopefully this isn't a dumb question, but I'm still in the process of learning about these cameras. I have a starlight HDW5231-R-Z I'm considering replacing with one of these cameras...

Hi RJF,

I would actually be thinking about adding another 1-2 cameras, not replacing one.

I'd try to get a good angle, tighter focus to either the left or right of this section so that you get a great shot of people walking by.

 

[RJF]

Thanks

Hi RJF,

I would actually be thinking about adding another 1-2 cameras, not replacing one.

I'd try to get a good angle, tighter focus to either the left or right of this section so that you get a great shot of people walking by.

Thanks very much. Unfortunately that is not really an option. I already have three cameras on the front of a 13-foot wide row house. I really just need to get the best picture from this location that I can get. Whether by changing the settings or pointing it in a different direction or changing to a better camera. That's why I'm wondering if I can get more out of the 8MP non-starlight variety here at night. I get very good, crisp faces during the day, and know that the 8MP would do better in the day.

Thanks again!

 

[bug99]

I would start with the best ID shot of at least a person walking one way for your first camera, and have have an overview as the last camera so you can see what someone is doing (not ID them). more zoom, lower and angled more head on, like at the tree behind the one next to the person, or just deal with persons that rotate towards the house (still should be a bit lower in angle.

It would be great to see some zoomed motion comparison of the two cameras.

 

[RJF]

I would start with the best ID shot of at least a person walking one way for your first camera, and have have an overview as the last camera so you can see what someone is doing (not ID them). more zoom, lower and angled more head on, like at the tree behind the one next to the person, or just deal with persons that rotate towards the house (still should be a bit lower in angle.

It would be great to see some zoomed motion comparison of the two cameras.

Thanks. I'm going to go ahead and order the 8MP and see how it performs. I'll take some before and after footage.

I can't really angle this camera any more to the right if I want to also capture who is coming up to my front door, and as a practical matter, I cannot put another camera in this location (or anywhere else on the front of my house). The picture above is probably not a good example because he's looking down. Under normal operation (and during the day) I can get very clean face shots. I'm just not getting very good shots at night.

 

[looney2ns]

Thanks. I'm going to go ahead and order the 8MP and see how it performs. I'll take some before and after footage.

I can't really angle this camera any more to the right if I want to also capture who is coming up to my front door, and as a practical matter, I cannot put another camera in this location (or anywhere else on the front of my house). The picture above is probably not a good example because he's looking down. Under normal operation (and during the day) I can get very clean face shots. I'm just not getting very good shots at night.

Increase the shutter speed manually at night. Force it to B&W at night. You need more zoom, the 8mp will do worse at night.

 

[RJF]

Increase the shutter speed manually at night. Force it to B&W at night. You need more zoom, the 8mp will do worse at night.

When you say increasing shutter speed manually, do you mean manual range under shutter priority or something else? I have been messing with the shutter priority range and based on other posts have been trying to keep it at between 0 and 8 or less, but still am getting poor results. Next step is to mess around with lowering 3D NR.

I wonder if the (LED) porch light is too bright or close (see below). Theoretically the camera is shielded from direct light given that it is above it, but there may be light bouncing off of the brick wall.

 

[looney2ns]

You may have to also adjust the gain up a bit like I did, default is 0-50.

You are not seeing any lens flare, so the LED light is probably fine.

 

[RJF]

You may have to also adjust the gain up a bit like I did, default is 0-50.

You are not seeing any lens flare, so the LED light is probably fine.

View attachment 23348

Thanks @looney2ns. Really appreciate the help. Quick question for my continuing education: what is the difference between using manual as you show above and using Shutter Priority and setting a range from 0 to the equivalent of 1/100, (which I guess would be 10)?

I understand that to mean that the shutter speed will never go below 1/100, but will automatically increase depending on the light available. The big advantage would seem to be that you can use this setting without scheduling day & night, which so far seems to be a real pain, particularly given that the times day & night start change constantly.

 

[looney2ns]

Thanks @looney2ns. Really appreciate the help. Quick question for my continuing education: what is the difference between using manual as you show above and using Shutter Priority and setting a range from 0 to the equivalent of 1/100, (which I guess would be 10)?

I understand that to mean that the shutter speed will never go below 1/100, but will automatically increase depending on the light available. The big advantage would seem to be that you can use this setting without scheduling day & night, which so far seems to be a real pain, particularly given that the times day & night start change constantly.

When you force the shutter speed, then other factors take care of the light changes, such as gain, Iris etc. The shutter speed stays at the setting, vs shutter priority which still allows the shutter to auto adjust. Click the ? at the upper right at the exposure setting web gui, read the section under exposure. In broken english, it attempts to explain.

For changing profiles, see this: Dahua Profile Management No more fiddling as the sunrise/set changes. From our resident guru @bp2008

If the bulb is changeable in the porch light, maybe try a brighter bulb.

 

[CCTVCam]

Thanks @looney2ns

I understand that to mean that the shutter speed will never go below 1/100, but will automatically increase depending on the light available. The big advantage would seem to be that you can use this setting without scheduling day & night, which so far seems to be a real pain, particularly given that the times day & night start change constantly.

There are always pros and cons. The advantage of a fast shutter on any camera is it reduces motion blur. The penalty to be paid, is in low light, because the shutter (or these days the electronic shutter) is open for less time, it can gather less light during the exposure and so the camera has to then compensate in other ways, such as opening the iris, which then affects DOF, or using gain, which then amplifies noise and can degrade the picture quality. That's where the advantage of a sensor such as the Starlight ones come into play because their high sensitivity makes it much less likely that the camera will have to resort to opening the iris or increasing the gain significantly to capture the picture under low light conditions.

Personally, I think there's a lot to be said for setting day and night settings with a non starlight camera as the settings for one, won't be perfect for the other. It's just a pity the NVR software for these cameras (from what you're saying) doesn't switch between profiles automatically when the light levels drop off / increase. I'm sure there must be some way it could monitor the light information from at least one of the cameras.

 

[RJF]

This is a review of the 8mp NON-Starlight HDW5830R-Z camera. I will also do some side by side comparisons with a 2mp Starlight HDW5231R-Z.

The camera is all metal and appears to be basically the same size as the starlight model. You will have to take it apart to insert an SD card. One big difference is the small set screw (camera comes with a tool) is not the exact same size as the one on the starlight models, so don't loose that tool!

Features:

1/2.5" 8mp progressive scan STARVIS CMOS (this is NOT a starlight chip!)
H.265 & H.264 dual stream encoding
15fps@4k(3849x2160), 25/30fps@3M(2304x1296)
Day/Night(ICR),3DNR,AWB,AGC,BLC
2.7mm-12mm motorized lens
Built In Mic
MAX IR LEDs Length 50m
IP67,IK10,Poe

Product Page
User Manual
Quick Start Guide
Spec Sheet

Bought through @EMPIRECANDY - Online store

I'm not going to clutter this thread with pictures of the web interface as they are 99% similar to the starlight model and you can see some in the original 2mp starlight review.



I currently have an all Dahua setup with an NVR5216 and 9 various starlight models. A common question that is asked over and over is about higher mp cameras. I really like the starlight models but I wanted to experiment with something with a bit more resolution. There were already comparisons between the 2mp starlights and other 3 and 4 mp models and the starlights overall won. I wanted to see what the 8mp could do.


I currently have a HDW5231R-Z covering my driveway zoomed about halfway in. Near the top of the driveway closest to the camera I feel I can get a good identity. Further down the driveway closer to the garage doors it really starts to drop off. I do have another starlight down there, but I am hoping that the 8mp can do the job of both, and that I could repurpose that other starlight for something else. I have a test pole I use for test placing cameras and I placed the 8mp right next to the 2mp underneath the soffit for testing and tried to get it zoomed as close as possible to the 2mp. The number zoom in the web interface wasn't the exact same, maybe due to slight changes in the lense and the different chips.

I printed out a license plate image I found online to the closest size as my real plates (and even printed a 50% reduced one) and setup this up on a stand. My driveway is somewhat lit and I currently have the IR turned off on all my external starlights (to avoid bugs) as there is sufficient external lighting. I have bought some external IRs but have not mounted them yet.

Below are various screenshots I've taken from SmartPSS comparing the 2mp to the 8mp. Without a doubt, in the daylight, as expected, the 8mp really really shines, IF you need to ZOOM in. I'm amazed at how much I can zoom in and still get good resolution. At the light drops, the 8mp has a harder time keeping it up. At it's worst, in a somewhat still lit environment, I'm basically seeing the same resolution as the starlight. At least it's not worse. As it gets darker, one can see the starlight start to excel showing more detail in poorer lit areas where the 8mp stays darker. In the night shots, I tested with both my garage lights on and off. Keep in mind, my neighbors have lights too that were always on. I did try turning on the IR but I only saw the ground near the top of the driveway getting brighter and didn't see any impact on my license plate test so didn't test any further. For the daylight test, since it was that much clearer, I went ahead and moved the test sign further down to see how much further I could still read them. The license plates are approx 60-70' (guessing) from the camera. For the daylight shot where I moved them further down that is maybe another 15-20' away?

I had my kids walk around in the daytime and I could definitely identify them at greater distances by zooming in. At night, that would only happen if the area was really well lit.

So it's a tough call. The 8mp camera does cost a bit more. You definitely get a huge day time improvement IF you are wanting to identity something further away. Looking at both models full screen, I can't see a difference if that's all you are after. At night, it basically degrades to a 2mp, that at least in some areas better lit might offer a tiny bit more detail in return for less detail in darker areas.

Right now, based on these results, my plans are to go ahead and replace that driveway starlight with the 8mp and maybe move my second starlight at the garage door further down to better cover that darker part of the driveway. Also going to update the driveway floodlights.

Daytime comparison (with the test license plate at the further distance)

View attachment 20783

Daytime zoom of license plates at both distances - Left: 2mp Right: 8mp

View attachment 20784 View attachment 20785

2mp Starlight with driveway lights on

View attachment 20787

8mp with driveway lights on

View attachment 20788

2mp driveway lights off

View attachment 20790

8mp driveway lights off

View attachment 20791

Side by Side driveway lights on - Left: 2mp Right: 8mp

View attachment 20792

Driveway lights on, zoomed in (closer distance) - Left: 2mp Right: 8mp

View attachment 20793

Driveway lights off, zoomed in (closer distance) - Left: 2mp Right: 8mp

View attachment 20794

What has your experience been with motion? I replaced a 2 MP Starlight HDW5231R-Z with this camera and it takes substantially worse daytime images of objects in motion (people walking) than the 2 MP did under exactly the same conditions. I've tried different settings without luck, with auto being particularly bad.

 

[Al*_*]

Thank you for this nice review @happf

How did your project turned out @RJF

The night/daytime settings seem to be a serious challenge.

 

[happf]

What has your experience been with motion? I replaced a 2 MP Starlight HDW5231R-Z with this camera and it takes substantially worse daytime images of objects in motion (people walking) than the 2 MP did under exactly the same conditions. I've tried different settings without luck, with auto being particularly bad.

Hmm, good question. Haven't really thought about that and the need has not yet come up for me to need a freeze frame image. I will see if I can find time to setup a test and see what happens.

 

[CCTVCam]

I would have said there are 2 obvious possibilities - compression and shutter settings. Suggest you look at both to see what you have set. There's no reason per se why a higher pixel camera should reproduce motion worse than a lower pixel camera in good daylight. The only real difference between the 2 is the amount of data generated per frame. It's got to come down to your settings with those being the most obvious 2 points to start.