Dahua camera combo advice

[freddyq]

Hi all, I am looking to put 3 cameras around my house and have been following all the threads and discussions on this forum about the Dahua 2MP Starlight turret (IPC-HDW5231R-ZE) for a while now. Having just done a refresher it looks like it is still pretty much top of the pile although there is now also the IPC-T5442TM-AS 4MP Starlight+. I've read the review thread on that camera and there is a lot of debate about this cam in terms of performance vs the 5231 but clearly both are very good.

My current thinking is as follows:

• Buy 1 IPC-T5442TM-AS 4MP Starlight+: This would overlook the front of my house and the driveway. The reason I go with this over the 5231 at the front is because the front of the house is much better lit than the side and back (due to streetlights and a floodlight) so with the 4MP of this camera I'll get better daytime footage than the 5231 and low light footage just as good as the 5231
• Buy 2 IPC-HDW5231R-ZE cams: One goes at the side and the other at the back. I could put either camera on the side to be honest but because it's a long and narrow stretch of space I suspect the flexibility of the varifocal will prove useful to get the focal length fine-tuned to the optimum setting. At the back of the house, light is definitely very low so I'm preferring the low light performance of the 5231

Does that make sense to others and is there anything else I need to consider?

One thing I am concerned about is that I don't currently know which focal length will be best for the front of my house so with the 4MP Starlight+ I'll have to make calculations and plump for either the 2.8mm or 3.6mm version. Although I could order the two 5231s and use them to check best focal length for the front and if 2.8 or 3.6 works then I can go for the 4MP cam and if it doesn't then I'll go for another 5231.

All opinions welcome and valued!

 

[mech]

For the front and back, also consider the Hikvision 8MP low-light model I wrote up here: IPC-T2385G-I Hikvision 8MP fixed turret (night videos added) In my system, it replaced the sister model of the 5231 (namely the 2231, same sensor and performance spec) and outperforms it in my situation. The Hik's night performance is better, and of course daytime performance is a serious jump due to twice the pixel density. Maybe @EMPIRETECANDY will start carrying the varifocal version of it...

For the side, you could flip a cam into portrait mode to pack all your pixels where they count, and put the cam at one end of the corridor aiming at a shallow angle. With your subject moving directly toward/away from the camera, you also won't need as fast of a shutter speed to control blur. That would be a great spot for a varifocal so you can dial in the view to make all your pixels count. If you want to go with a varifocal Dahua 2MP turret, you might as well get the one Looney just wrote up here: Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera It's less expensive with no serious compromises unless you were banking on 60fps (not generally done).

So that is my 2 cents' worth, having gone through some of the same quest recently and put my money down. Also, if you don't have good light, my first question is "why not?" since a couple of motion-activated floodlights can seriously boost the effectiveness of whatever cams you pick.

 

[aristobrat]

One thing I am concerned about is that I don't currently know which focal length will be best for the front of my house so with the 4MP Starlight+ I'll have to make calculations and plump for either the 2.8mm or 3.6mm version.

Play around with IPVM Camera Calculator V3 ... it should let you drop a camera (you pick the focal length) on a Google map image of your house and see the resulting angle and image quality (as you drag a pin around to simulate a person).

 

[mech]

Samples from my Dahua x231 and Hik 8MP attached, from the day of the swap-out. I did aim the floodlight fixture up a bit between these two, but it's the same amount of light overall. These are both what I'd call "ID-tuned" settings, aimed at a fast shutter plus any other tuning that that gets the best possible human (or feline ) identification. It's not the usual stock-settings approach that is aimed at a glorious bright scene, but blurs out detail on moving objects.

If you want to stick to Dahua for your setup, then I'd steer towards the 5442 varifocal bullets so you can get good night performance and longer-range identification without giving up varifocal, if it were me. Some of my cams are now... wow, like 8 years old? It's an investment, don't focus on up-front cost too hard.

 

[freddyq]

For the front and back, also consider the Hikvision 8MP low-light model I wrote up here: IPC-T2385G-I Hikvision 8MP fixed turret (night videos added) In my system, it replaced the sister model of the 5231 (namely the 2231, same sensor and performance spec) and outperforms it in my situation. The Hik's night performance is better, and of course daytime performance is a serious jump due to twice the pixel density. Maybe @EMPIRETECANDY will start carrying the varifocal version of it...

For the side, you could flip a cam into portrait mode to pack all your pixels where they count, and put the cam at one end of the corridor aiming at a shallow angle. With your subject moving directly toward/away from the camera, you also won't need as fast of a shutter speed to control blur. That would be a great spot for a varifocal so you can dial in the view to make all your pixels count. If you want to go with a varifocal Dahua 2MP turret, you might as well get the one Looney just wrote up here: Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera It's less expensive with no serious compromises unless you were banking on 60fps (not generally done).

So that is my 2 cents' worth, having gone through some of the same quest recently and put my money down. Also, if you don't have good light, my first question is "why not?" since a couple of motion-activated floodlights can seriously boost the effectiveness of whatever cams you pick.

Cool thanks for the Hikvision recommendation. Before I go digging into the detail of it, I kinda got the impression the Dahua (5231 especially) was the king of all cams at the moment and I know it depends on the usage scenario but is it because the Hik might just perform better in my situation? I'm ignoring the fact that it's fixed focal length which I need to calculate properly. Is there a varifocal version of it?

In terms of flipping a cam to portrait mode, good idea - sorry I've not got much knowledge of this so does that involve physically installing the camera rotated so that the lens is in portrait mode or is there a software setting for that? I'm not wedded to Dahua for any reason btw, it just seemed from all my lurking research over time that the Dahua's got the best reviews. I just want the best cams for the job. I will compare that 2231 you've recommended with the 5231...

Finally, I should correct myself, I have PIR floodlights setup in all three locations so if the PIR is triggered, light won't be an issue - what I meant was that ambient light at the side and back is much less because unless the floodlight is triggered, it's pretty dark whereas at the front even when the floodlight isn't triggered there is plenty of light from street lamps.

Play around with IPVM Camera Calculator V3 ... it should let you drop a camera (you pick the focal length) on a Google map image of your house and see the resulting angle and image quality (as you drag a pin around to simulate a person).

Will do, thanks!

Samples from my Dahua x231 and Hik 8MP attached, from the day of the swap-out. I did aim the floodlight fixture up a bit between these two, but it's the same amount of light overall. These are both what I'd call "ID-tuned" settings, aimed at a fast shutter plus any other tuning that that gets the best possible human (or feline ) identification. It's not the usual stock-settings approach that is aimed at a glorious bright scene, but blurs out detail on moving objects.

If you want to stick to Dahua for your setup, then I'd steer towards the 5442 varifocal bullets so you can get good night performance and longer-range identification without giving up varifocal, if it were me. Some of my cams are now... wow, like 8 years old? It's an investment, don't focus on up-front cost too hard.

Thanks for this - useful comparison! As mentioned above, I'm not wedded to Dahua - I've not got any existing cams or an NVR so this will be my first jump and I just want the best cams for the location. I've realised that low light often seems to be a differentiator in performance but if the camera location has some ambient light then you can creep up the MP to get better daytime footage whilst maintaining good quality low light footage.

Must admit I thought I had it nailed down to 2 Dahua cams and I'm now looking at the Hik, the Dahua 2231 and 5442!! I suppose I probably should ensure I stick to one brand though so just need to ensure there is a good cam offered by the same brand for each of my three locations..

 

[aristobrat]

I suppose I probably should ensure I stick to one brand though so just need to ensure there is a good cam offered by the same brand for each of my three locations..

If you're going to use a traditional NVR, sticking with one brand (and making sure the NVR matches the camera brand) will likely allow you to use the advanced motion detection features built into Dahua/Hik cameras. Dahua calls that feature IVS, Hik call it Smart Events. Both manufacturers have newer low light models whose IVS/Smart Events have what they call 'AI' that will trigger only if a person an/or vehicle is detected. A Hikvision NVR with a Dahua camera couldn't use those features. Same with a Dahua NVR with a Hikvision. Camera + NVR brands usually have to match to use the advanced features.

If you do want to mix/match camera brands, then I'd suggest looking at a VMS solution like Blue Iris. Those tend to be camera brand agnostic while usually still being able to use all of the cameras advanced features.

 

[freddyq]

If you're going to use a traditional NVR, sticking with one brand (and making sure the NVR matches the camera brand) will likely allow you to use the advanced motion detection features built into Dahua/Hik cameras. Dahua calls that feature IVS, Hik call it Smart Events. Both manufacturers have newer low light models whose IVS/Smart Events have what they call 'AI' that will trigger only if a person an/or vehicle is detected. A Hikvision NVR with a Dahua camera couldn't use those features. Same with a Dahua NVR with a Hikvision. Camera + NVR brands usually have to match to use the advanced features.

If you do want to mix/match camera brands, then I'd suggest looking at a VMS solution like Blue Iris. Those tend to be camera brand agnostic while usually still being able to use all of the cameras advanced features.

Good point and now that you point it out, I had read that in other threads on this forum so it does go back to me making a decision on storage mechanism as part of all of this. I suppose it's actually one of many advantages of going down that BI route.

By the way, my CAT6 cables are all running to a small storage area in the house where they will plug into a PoE switch. If I don't want to keep a Blue Iris PC in that same storage area but I do have a cable run already from the switch in the storage area to a location where I would keep the PC, presumably I could plug that cable into another switch which will be in my desired location for the PC and then also connect the PC to this second switch and that would work?

 

[aristobrat]

By the way, my CAT6 cables are all running to a small storage area in the house where they will plug into a PoE switch. If I don't want to keep a Blue Iris PC in that same storage area but I do have a cable run already from the switch in the storage area to a location where I would keep the PC, presumably I could plug that cable into another switch which will be in my desired location for the PC and then also connect the PC to this second switch and that would work?

That should work fine!

 

[freddyq]

That should work fine!

Fantastic - thanks!

So cameras I've got to compare are:

Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS 4MP Starlight+ (Turret, Fixed lens 2.8/3.6/6mm)
Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 2MP Starlight (Turret, Varifocal lens)
Dahua IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 2MP Starlight (Turret, Varifocal lens)
Dahua IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP Starlight+ (Bullet, Varifocal lens)
Hikvision IPC-T2385G-I 8MP (Turret, Fixed lens 2.8mm)

If anyone has compared these cameras already or can point me to a thread about that, please let me know! I'm tempted to take the 5231 over the 2231 just for future-proofing...

 

[freddyq]

Play around with IPVM Camera Calculator V3 ... it should let you drop a camera (you pick the focal length) on a Google map image of your house and see the resulting angle and image quality (as you drag a pin around to simulate a person).

This is really useful. Just been playing with this and comparing the Hikvision (2.8 and 4mm fixed lens versions) with the 5231 and it seems to me that the Hikvision with the 4mm lens is best for the front of my house. I thought I'd need 2.8mm at the front but that is sacrificing too much of the image quality in return for a wide FOV which I wouldn't even need because it then starts to cover neighbouring land which I'm not as concerned with. The 4mm seems to cover enough of my drive and the image quality of the simulated person is much much better. Interestingly, comparing the Hikvision fixed 4mm against the 5231 at similar distance and FOV shows that the Hikvision image would be much clearer.

For the side of the house, again this is really useful because it seems best setup there would be a 6mm focal length in portrait mode - even at that FOV it will cover the full width of my narrow side space but I also get really good image quality even at a distance of 10m which is the farthest I need it to cover.

 

[mech]

Cool thanks for the Hikvision recommendation. Before I go digging into the detail of it, I kinda got the impression the Dahua (5231 especially) was the king of all cams at the moment and I know it depends on the usage scenario but is it because the Hik might just perform better in my situation? I'm ignoring the fact that it's fixed focal length which I need to calculate properly. Is there a varifocal version of it?

I'd take the 5231 off your list. Its own less-expensive sibling, the 2231, stole its thunder by costing 1/4 less for the same video performance, and you now have the improved successor to the 2231 in your list above, the -S2 release. I think at the time, the 5231 was a leading performer for the money, particularly when factoring in a useful varifocal lens, but stiff competition has arrived in the form of the 5442 and others.

 

[tibimakai]

How about this camera?
IPC-HDW3541T-ZAS

IPC-HDW3541T-ZAS

IPC-HDW3541T-ZAS

www.dahuasecurity.com

 

[freddyq]

How about this camera?
IPC-HDW3541T-ZAS

IPC-HDW3541T-ZAS

IPC-HDW3541T-ZAS

www.dahuasecurity.com

Has anyone on this forum reviewed it?

 

[tibimakai]

I don't think so. I may end up waiting for this, or another varifocal

 

[freddyq]

Oh

I don't think so. I may end up waiting for this, or another varifocal

Oh OK. Yea I'm looking to make a decision in the next week..

 

[freddyq]

I'd take the 5231 off your list. Its own less-expensive sibling, the 2231, stole its thunder by costing 1/4 less for the same video performance, and you now have the improved successor to the 2231 in your list above, the -S2 release. I think at the time, the 5231 was a leading performer for the money, particularly when factoring in a useful varifocal lens, but stiff competition has arrived in the form of the 5442 and others.

OK, I'll read the review on the 2231 S2...I'm now thinking the 4mm version of the Hikvision at the front of my house, 2231 at the back and either 6mm Hikvision or 2231 again in portrait mode at the side.

I know it's always said on this forum not to chase MP but the Hikvision does seem good - am I missing something after all the positive reviews of the 5231 or 2231?

 

[tibimakai]

I'm planning to use this, or some other camera at the entrance(porch). Since plans have changed from the wedge 5231, why not upgrade to a 4-5 MP starlight.
I won't be rushing, I rather wait and get a varifocal.

 

[mech]

OK, I'll read the review on the 2231 S2...I'm now thinking the 4mm version of the Hikvision at the front of my house, 2231 at the back and either 6mm Hikvision or 2231 again in portrait mode at the side.

I know it's always said on this forum not to chase MP but the Hikvision does seem good - am I missing something after all the positive reviews of the 5231 or 2231?

If you have a little time to wait, I have another 2.8mm and 4mm Hik 8MP Darkfighter on the way from Andy, and I have a spare 2231 which is the same chip/performance as a 5231. I can slap them up on the south side of our building where it's much darker, and run you some direct side-by-side tests at the settings I would run to capture actual identification.

I understand what you are hearing about megapixels. Some people go with the "some of both" approach: high-megapixel cams for the best daytime results at longer range, plus some starlight cams to get IDs in low light. If you can locate the lower-resolution cams at a choke point where they can get a close-range view, that's a win. If it's a varifocal and can minimize wasted pixels, that's also a win.

A recent example here, we've got a serial car-prowler chick. My ID-tuned 5442 got some usable night photos of her, then I matched her up to a day photo from a super-focused 5MP cam. The police recognized the day photo. I'll attach a shot from the 5442, and a face snip from the "sniper" cam (Bosch 8000 with 50mm lens).

By the way, how much light do you have in your scenes? Maybe post us some night photos once night falls?

 

[freddyq]

I've got some work starting on the house in 3 weeks so I was planning to order cams and test out all the cables before that starts so they can go up with the work.

To be honest, I think we're talking about very good cameras whichever one I go for and I've been lurking here for quite a while doing all the research so I think a combination of the cams I mentioned before would work for me.

I do like the clarity of the footage produced by the Hikvision 8MP turret and can see that daylight footage would be really good with that over the 5231/2231. Can I just check then that if I had no lighting where the camera would go then the issue with this cam would be poor quality low light images whereas the 5231/2231 would be much better. However, because I will have a PIR floodlight providing light for the cam, does that basically allow this camera to perform just as well if not better than the 5231/2231 in low light as well?

 

[freddyq]

I thought there was a 6mm version of the Hikvision but just seen Andy's page and it's just the 2.8mm and 4mm so that makes my decision easier because it'll probably be the 2231 at the side and back. At the front I could put a 4mm version of the Hikvision to give me good clarity day and night because this is where the majority of activity will be anyway.