Dahua camera feature/price disparity?

[breshead]

I am trying to research cameras and after lurking here for a while, I am having problems reconciling the pricing I am seeing on some of the cameras.

• SD59225U-HNI (25x): Is going for $500-$600 and appears to be 1-2 years ago top of the line?
• SD49225XA-HNR (25x): Is going for ~$400 and appears to be the most current.
• SD42212T-HN (12x): Is going for ~$350 and cannot do object tracking (just saw a post where Andy recommended this).

They all are Starlight PTZ cams but the SD42212T-HN looks like it should be in the $200 range from the specs (no tracking) and the SD49225XA-HNR and SD59225U-HNI look like they should be swapped (price wise) based on the object tracking/AI stuff. The reviews I have seen on IPCAMTALK for those two cameras seem to bear out that conclusion in that the SD49225XA-HNR seemed to track the best/smoothest where the SD59225U-HNI had pages of people trying to figure out how to get tracking to work.
I would think the motion tracking feature would be the big draw for these cameras since a good PTZ motion tracker "should" be able to replace multiple fixed cameras with better results. I know that is my thinking, is that incorrect?
Am I missing something among the feature set of these devices or are the prices really just based on the demand of people not paying attention?
Just trying to get my bearings before purchasing a test cam, thanks for any help.

 

[mat200]

I am trying to research cameras and after lurking here for a while, I am having problems reconciling the pricing I am seeing on some of the cameras.

• SD59225U-HNI (25x): Is going for $500-$600 and appears to be 1-2 years ago top of the line?
• SD49225XA-HNR (25x): Is going for ~$400 and appears to be the most current.
• SD42212T-HN (12x): Is going for ~$350 and cannot do object tracking (just saw a post where Andy recommended this).

They all are Starlight PTZ cams but the SD42212T-HN looks like it should be in the $200 range from the specs (no tracking) and the SD49225XA-HNR and SD59225U-HNI look like they should be swapped (price wise) based on the object tracking/AI stuff. The reviews I have seen on IPCAMTALK for those two cameras seem to bear out that conclusion in that the SD49225XA-HNR seemed to track the best/smoothest where the SD59225U-HNI had pages of people trying to figure out how to get tracking to work.
I would think the motion tracking feature would be the big draw for these cameras since a good PTZ motion tracker "should" be able to replace multiple fixed cameras with better results. I know that is my thinking, is that incorrect?
Am I missing something among the feature set of these devices or are the prices really just based on the demand of people not paying attention?
Just trying to get my bearings before purchasing a test cam, thanks for any help.

HI @breshead

The SD59xx models are a tier higher iirc compared to the SD49xx series.

Typically higher tier models include more processing power in the camera to handle more compute - which translates to features. ( such as IVS features, more fps, AI features, more substreams,.. )

 

[breshead]

@mat200: Thanks for replying, I found this model breakdown says that the "5" vs "4" is simply the size of the dome. The "9" is the same indicating the same "type" of dome (IR speed dome). So I am pretty sure they are in the same class except the HNI vs HNR, the "R" is new enough that it is not documented to my knowledge. But the implication there (and that it has "deep learning" stuff built in) is that it is newer and better but for some reason cheaper.
Plus after looking at the specs, the only real negative difference I cared about (from the SD4 point of view) was that itl has 100m vs 150m IR range.

 

[mat200]

@mat200: Thanks for replying, I found this model breakdown says that the "5" vs "4" is simply the size of the dome. The "9" is the same indicating the same "type" of dome (IR speed dome). So I am pretty sure they are in the same class except the HNI vs HNR, the "R" is new enough that it is not documented to my knowledge. But the implication there (and that it has "deep learning" stuff built in) is that it is newer and better but for some reason cheaper.
Plus after looking at the specs, the only real negative difference I cared about (from the SD4 point of view) was that itl has 100m vs 150m IR range.

Thanks @breshead

Good reference. Note a 5" ball can contain more electronics / lens vs the 4" ball - so while 4" vs 5" is listed as the difference, I would expect additional differences besides just the diameter.( internal electronics, external IR leds, etc.. )

 

[mmmburritos]

I am trying to research cameras and after lurking here for a while, I am having problems reconciling the pricing I am seeing on some of the cameras.

• SD59225U-HNI (25x): Is going for $500-$600 and appears to be 1-2 years ago top of the line?
• SD49225XA-HNR (25x): Is going for ~$400 and appears to be the most current.
• SD42212T-HN (12x): Is going for ~$350 and cannot do object tracking (just saw a post where Andy recommended this).

In my opinion there is definitely a price/feature sweet spot for these cameras, when I bought mine it was the older SD49225T-HN which I got for <$350, the next step up would have been the SD59225U-HNI which at the time would have been in the $600 range I believe. The only feature benefit it really added was the auto tracking which everyone said did not work especially well at the time. I don't have a problem paying extra for some tangible benefits, but anything above the 49225 (either the old model or the new XA) does not seem to be worth it to me. There are some that bump up to 30x zoom, but again, they're almost double the price for only 5x more zoom.

That being said, I think the 5 series is due for an upgrade. The SD49225XA-HNR came out only a couple of months ago and it seems like the internals have been upgraded significantly over the older SD49225T-HN, obviously it has a faster processor since it can do the AI features and auto tracking, and it has more RAM. There has to be an equivalent upgrade coming along for the 5 series, so if that is what you had your eye on, I'd suggest waiting on making a purchase.

Personally, I have no idea why anyone would buy the SD42212T-HN when the SD49225XA-HNR is less than $50 more. As far as I know, they're the same physical size, or at least use the same mounting bracket so the footprint on your wall is the same. I guess maybe if you were buying 10 of them and had no need for 25x zoom you'd save a total of $500 and that's significant. But for someone like me buying one or two, it makes no sense to not get the larger zoom even if I didn't think it could be fully utilized.

 

[tibimakai]

This is not correct:
".... a good PTZ motion tracker "should" be able to replace multiple fixed cameras with better results." It is the other way around.
When I have purchased my 59xxxxx I have got it for $395.

 

[breshead]

@tibimakai, so what your saying is that the motion tracking on these cameras is not to a level that should be considered for a real security camera needing to cover multiple angles?

 

[tibimakai]

Multiple fixed cameras(none ptz) are better than one PTZ camera. Let's say, your PTZ is pointing to the left of your area, that you want to monitor, the right area is not covered by anything.

 

[samplenhold]

Multiple fixed cameras(none ptz) are better than one PTZ camera. Let's say, your PTZ is pointing to the left of your area, that you want to monitor, the right area is not covered by anything.

This is true. One PTZ MAY get you what you are needing some of the time. But multiple fixed cameras have more of a chance at getting you the whole picture.

So your single PTZ is pointing in a certain direction. Does it cover the whole area of interest? If it does and is triggered so it 'follows' the moving trigger, maybe zooms in. Now you have lost the rest of the coverage. What if a second actor arrives in the view? You miss that person. Also, your single PTZ has only one point of view or angle on your target. Multiple cameras give different angles and have a better chance at capturing identification parameters of the actors.

Case in point: A guy was checking my Jeep's door in my driveway. I had two cameras looking in a crossing pattern at the driveway. Also had an other camera that gave an overview of the driveway and street. One camera got a great look at the perp's face while he never really turned towards the other camera so that it did not get a good look at his face. If that was the location of the $$$ PTZ camera, I would have had nothing to ID the guy. The third camera gave me a decent look at his buddy's clothing. If I had just one PTZ, I would have not known the other guy was there.

 

[FlipNJ]

My newly purchased 59230HNI definitely does not track well as far as vehicles. At night it doesn't even try. Considering returning it and getting something better. Guess it is old tech. I should have researched a lot more.

 

[breshead]

So I am trying to think of where a PTZ is useful..

a) there is a live operator that can move things around (RI/Real Intelligence)
b) where you need high zoom level (e.g. Haven't seen fixed cams with 140mm lens)
c) Where you want to be able to reposition w/o a screw-driver and a ladder.

Anything else?

 

[mmmburritos]

So I am trying to think of where a PTZ is useful..

a) there is a live operator that can move things around (RI/Real Intelligence)
b) where you need high zoom level (e.g. Haven't seen fixed cams with 140mm lens)
c) Where you want to be able to reposition w/o a screw-driver and a ladder.

Anything else?

I use mine as an overview type camera, it can see basically my entire front yard..and a very good distance down the road and all over the place. It's near the corner of the house, so I can see most of the way across the front and a good amount down the side. I can point it at things I wouldn't want a fixed camera always looking at. It's basically just for fun, if I want to bring it up and look at something I can swing it around any which way. I do usually have it return to a home position when idle and sometimes set up an IVS tripwire with it, but I don't rely on it for that.

It seems like sometimes people are quick to shoot down PTZ cameras, but I think that is more of a blanket statement when someone thinks they can get by with only using PTZ cameras. The better way to put it is to not rely on them, or at least have the realization that they can only look in one direction at a time and the auto tracking is not 100% reliable.

 

[looney2ns]

If you depend on auto tracking, you will be disappointed. It may work well in certain locations that don't have a lot of items blocking it's view...maybe.
More fixed cams properly designed and installed system always trumps a PTZ,
Lots of newbs biggest mistake is trying to do/view too much with one camera.
Our two PTZ's are used for wildlife, and weather.
Study this Cliff Notes and this Wiki.

 

[Parley]

I have 3 PTZ's that cover an area not covered by my other cameras. However if I want to look real close at a particular spot I grab one of the PTZ's and zoom in on the subject. After I am done I return the ptz camera back to its original spot (home preset).

 

[Sir]

I'm using SD59xxxU-HNI and SD49xxT-HN.

The image of theese cams realy makes difference. I think the point is in S/N ratio.

SD59XX has >55 dB, SD49XX has >50dB.

For some reason Dahua does not specify this parameter in the latest cameras.

 

[zero-degrees]

Multiple fixed cameras(none ptz) are better than one PTZ camera. Let's say, your PTZ is pointing to the left of your area, that you want to monitor, the right area is not covered by anything.

THIS!!!

PTZ are a "toy" in most home/residential cases. Can they provide a benefit with the auto track feature, sure. However, multiple fixed cameras covering the entire area will almost always yield better results and normally can be done easily for the price you would spend on a PTZ. Again, most residential applications PTZ is simply a "TOY" for someone that wants to spend money to have something to play with. I'm not saying they don't add benefit, but they normally are not "needed" is residential settings.

 

[Arjun]

Somehow, I think if setup right it can work out. You need to have fixed cameras setup throughout the premises; then via communication of presets makes the PTZ cameras work as they are intended; using autotracking alone is asking for trouble; multiple variables (such as using both autotracking, presets, and IVS creates buggy movements it seems based on the feedback here). At least when using IVS rules and presets, cameras can communicate with each other from there making the overall outcome more successful than using autotracking alone.

THIS!!!

PTZ are a "toy" in most home/residential cases. Can they provide a benefit with the auto track feature, sure. However, multiple fixed cameras covering the entire area will almost always yield better results and normally can be done easily for the price you would spend on a PTZ. Again, most residential applications PTZ is simply a "TOY" for someone that wants to spend money to have something to play with. I'm not saying they don't add benefit, but they normally are not "needed" is residential settings.

 

[Parley]

IMHO having a PTZ say in the front of the house along with the fixed cameras allows you to move the ptz camera around and focus in on something of interest. In my case I then return the camera to an area that it normally covers like a fixed camera. That is how I use mine. Same for the back of the house.

 

[Arjun]

The more the merrier

IMHO having a PTZ say in the front of the house along with the fixed cameras allows you to move the ptz camera around and focus in on something of interest. In my case I then return the camera to an area that it normally covers like a fixed camera. That is how I use mine. Same for the back of the house.

 

[Parley]

Here is an example of where I zoomed in on something with my PTZ camera. This pickup truck had been staying overnight for a few days and I wanted to park my PTZ camera on it and see what was going on. Here are a couple of pictures. The top picture is from the ptz in the front of the house and the bottom picture is from the ptz in the back of the house. Both PTZ's are Dahua DH-PTZ1A225U-IRA-N.