Dahua IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS - Buy Log / Review

[muddypuddle]

Thanks for posting this thread as I'm currently looking at buying this camera from this vendor

I have already brought the bullet cam version and impressed with the build and picture quality but it does not have a SD card slot built in so I was wondering about that?

does it record the main stream on to the SD card? and if so how long can you record for on say a 64gb card 8mbps/20fps?

is the card slot only accessible from taking the cover off?

I was going to put the bullet looking down my driveway but thought the SD would provide a little bit of extra security but like you said I'm wondering about the eaves and if they will get in the way? - the bullet doesn't have this problem but I don't think you can buy the bullet zoom with SD card?

 

[bp2008]

and if so how long can you record for on say a 64gb card 8mbps/20fps?

(64 gigabytes) / (8 Mbps) =
17.7777778 hours

You'll be able to extend that somewhat by using VBR (variable bit rate) encoding instead of CBR (constant bit rate) because VBR will reduce the bit rate dynamically when it isn't needed to achieve high quality.

In addition I advise not recording continuously, but instead triggering recordings on motion so you aren't fully overwriting the SD card every day or so. The SD card probably won't last long under that heavy of usage.

 

[beingaware]

Thanks for posting this thread as I'm currently looking at buying this camera from this vendor

I have already brought the bullet cam version and impressed with the build and picture quality but it does not have a SD card slot built in so I was wondering about that?

does it record the main stream on to the SD card? and if so how long can you record for on say a 64gb card 8mbps/20fps?

is the card slot only accessible from taking the cover off?

I was going to put the bullet looking down my driveway but thought the SD would provide a little bit of extra security but like you said I'm wondering about the eaves and if they will get in the way? - the bullet doesn't have this problem but I don't think you can buy the bullet zoom with SD card?

The HFW4431R-Z is surprisingly ok considering it's price, it's no starlight but with the hacked firmware it seems to do well.
I've got a few for my "tight arse" clients, for general coverage they do the job while the Starlights and starlight PTZ covers the critical areas.
Reason it doesn't have SD?
Most likely because it's a outdoor "weather proof" cheap camera, the high end models do have the slot.

I've ordered one IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS just to have a bit of a play, should be interesting to see how well it holds up for my weather camera feed.

(64 gigabytes) / (8 Mbps) =
17.7777778 hours

You'll be able to extend that somewhat by using VBR (variable bit rate) encoding instead of CBR (constant bit rate) because VBR will reduce the bit rate dynamically when it isn't needed to achieve high quality.

In addition I advise not recording continuously, but instead triggering recordings on motion so you aren't fully overwriting the SD card every day or so. The SD card probably won't last long under that heavy of usage.

I've got dashcams running 247 with class 10 SD 64GB cards that have lasted 2 years with almost constant record/overwrite, I guess it comes down to the quality of card being used and how large it is.

I do agree with setting the camera to only record on trigger.
It's a royal PITA to search through hours and hours of video for an event.

 

[muddypuddle]

So what is so great about the starlight models?

I only really want the cameras for daytime when at work and as there are no passing pedestrians and my driveway is illuminated by a 10w flood with separate PIR do I really need better night vision?

and the bullet which I may relegate to the back of the house will be mounted about 4m high and be looking out over a field so I doubt I would see much at night anyway?

 

[nayr]

the starlight models are an order of magnitude better at gathering photons, you'd be surprised how well they perform if you put them up next to really any other camera in the price range.. fixed security cameras rarely have ideal lighting conditions, indoors/outdoors they are subject to all the variation throughout the day..

what makes them so great is the Sony Starvis sensors they use in em, for general purpose security use they just mop the floor with all the previous generation stuff.. the sensors are in such high demand thats what makes getting the Starlight cameras difficult right now, production numbers should start improving.

If you think its alot of light, take your smartphone out there.. turn the flash off and see just how badly typical cameras do in ambient lighting conditions.. try to take some pictures of the stars..

 

[TVT73]

The HFW4431R-Z is surprisingly ok considering it's price, it's no starlight but with the hacked firmware it seems to do well.
I've got a few for my "tight arse" clients, for general coverage they do the job while the Starlights and starlight PTZ covers the critical areas.
Reason it doesn't have SD?
Most likely because it's a outdoor "weather proof" cheap camera, the high end models do have the slot.

I've ordered one IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS just to have a bit of a play, should be interesting to see how well it holds up for my weather camera feed.





I've got dashcams running 247 with class 10 SD 64GB cards that have lasted 2 years with almost constant record/overwrite, I guess it comes down to the quality of card being used and how large it is.

I do agree with setting the camera to only record on trigger.
It's a royal PITA to search through hours and hours of video for an event.

Be aware of the mounting position, although the hdbw-4431r-zs is ok, but it´s difficult not to get IR clouding. I recommend to use hfw or hdw ones! These ones have no IR problems.

If you are afraid of the reliability of the sd card you should buy for a bit more money MLC MicroSD Cards, there are several vendors which sells them. Kingston claims them as industrial standard together with a guarantee for working under a wider temperature range than normal.

At the moment I can only advice not to buy any zoom lens cams with more then 2mp from dahua, because of the firmware focus issue, which unfortunately the dahua support don´t bother. Especially on 4mp the difference is so big, that the night details are lower than a 2mp cam. Although also the 2mp starlight's are affected of this problem. But here it´s not so huge and the better performing night quality.
I still hope of finding other users who can document it. I started a pn thread about it, and asked several users for giving me comparison sample pictures about it. To all users who are interested in solving this issue, i can add you to the pn users list.
I wonder that @nayr hasn´t written anything about it or give a comment to my several postings about it.

 

[nayr]

IR has a completely different focal point than visible light; perfect focus in day/night requires refocusing.. its the optics not the firmware, all surveillance cameras have the issue and are focused at a compromise.. even the fixed focal ones, but its less noticeable because they have a fixed iris too.. the reason the 4MP sucks at night is that it sucks at night; not because its out of focus but because the gain levels are maxing out to achieve any decent shutter speed... pretty much all 4MP cameras do that without a buttload of lighting.

If your really obsessed with achieving perfect focus w/an auto-iris camera; well then fire off a script to adjust the focus twice a day when changing the profiles from day/night.. its all doable via Dahua HTTP API and its pretty much required for reading license plates.

 

[TVT73]

Why should we content oneself with little, if a simple auto focus within firmware is done when switching between day and night? You are right for the technical reasons, I know them, but the solution can be so simple. And this only belongs zoom lens cams. @Korgoth mentioned that dahua has ir corrected lens, what I can´t agree. The problem is in fact noticeable, the higher the resolution of the cam the more it´s visible. It makes all non starlight ones much more useless as it should be. The only advantage of them is the higher detail level, and this is loosen at night view. And if you have enough illumination they can be a good choice for a lower price. It´s of course of point of usage.

Why should we live with defocused pictures, we would all benefits with an automated refocus at night.

fixed lens cams doesn´t have this problem, because of the infinite focus is much nearer (normally below 1m?), so i havn´t noticed on all cams I had. PTZ Ones are always triggering auto focus, they also have not this problem.

 

[muddypuddle]

I have no problem with SD card reliability as others have said I have one in my car cam for a few years (getting very hot some days) and it works fine

So what bullet or turret cams with SD card do you guys recommend?

 

[TVT73]

@nayr,
Could you please allow me to invite you to our private conversation, it would be interesting for you.

 

[cryptelli]

I still hope of finding other users who can document it.

I have also noticed night time images being slightly out of focus, mine was quite evident like @nogi with the front yard grass which appeared soft. Refocusing fixed the issue but as you mention it then throws the daytime footage out. While i'm not particularly obsessed with achieving perfect results, as you mention @TVT73 it's quite easy to address especially as not everyone wants to get their hands dirty and configure scripts for what otherwise can be addressed by a firmware update.

@aristobrat posted on the Starlight Turret thread that Dahua had released new firmware dated 06/03/2017 and the changelog lists the following.

Optimizations & bug fixes:

1. Fix the bug that picture overlay displays abnormal when image flips
2. Fix SD card stop working problem
3. Fix auto focus problem under IR condition

I updated my front yard camera earlier today and checked the focus point at night 2080. After refocusing 4 times the number was still 2080. I need to verify my focus number during the day to ensure it wasn't set at some stage during the night but based on my quick testing and the rather descriptive changelog notes I would say this might no longer be an issue?

 

[TVT73]

@cryptelli you are right. This should it solve. But I can't test it before monday.

 

[nayr]

Why is this model not even on there chinese site. A google search for this model only shows links of aliexpress,ebay and taobao.

- 400万红外半球网络摄像机 - 浙江大华技术股份有限公司

 

[cryptelli]

@cryptelli you are right. This should it solve. But I can't test it before monday.

I refocused the front yard camera during the day and the focus value was still 2080. Problem solved! If you played a part in getting this sorted with Dahua, many thanks @TVT73.

 

[nayr]

lol for trusting anything in the specs for Chinese Domestic models...

 

[tigerwillow1]

lol for trusting anything in the specs for Chinese Domestic models...

I think the seller's process goes like this example:
1. Create sales ad for a 4 MP bullet camera.
2. Post specs for some 4 MP bullet camera. Doesn't matter which one.

 

[beingaware]

That link is for DH-IPC-HDBW4431R-VFAS which has a max resolution of 2688*1520
Where as this model is DH-IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS which has a max resolution of 2592*1520

DH-IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS dome and DH-IPC-HFW4431R-Z bullet seem to have the same max resolution 2592*1520 with both possibly having the same image sensor compared to all other dahua 4mp cameras which all have a resolution of 2688*1520 which may have different image sensor mostly a OV468x series sensor.

Some links in aliexpress say DH-IPC-HFW4431R-Z bullet has a aptina sensor.(aptina product list only shows a 3mp and 5mp sensor, no 4mp).

Pretty sure they just copy and paste rough translations.

They claim F2 0.01 lux for colour/low light, which we know isn't true, they are good but not that good. haha
Oh my, just found them on Dahua's own website, seems to be loose on the specs as well.
- 400万红外半球网络摄像机 - 浙江大华技术股份有限公司

lol for trusting anything in the specs for Chinese Domestic models...

"Trusting specs from Chinese Sellers on Ali" is more the isssue. haha (Though it seems Dahua is feeding them with projected specs.)

The HDBW4431R-ZS I bought to mess around with is surprisingly good, especially when conpaired to other brands or re-branded swann zmodo etc.
It's night time ability isn't the best but the HFW version seems to do well at longer ranges in IR mode. (Up close is just retarded with white out)

For people on a tight budget, they are certainly an option for coverage in non critical locations but I certainly agree with going with the better international models.

Either way, this camera will make a good online weather cam feed. (firewalled off, using ffmpeg to transcode to youtube).

 

[nayr]

whats the sticker really say on the bottom of it?

 

[beingaware]

whats the sticker really say on the bottom of it?

The Z/ZS/AS/VF/VAS are the same camera I believe.
ZS/VFAS are varifocials, AS/VFAS are the audio models.

I think the lens is the only difference between the fixed and varifocial models.

Will pull mine apart and take a look, might get lucky and find the sensor chip exposed.

 

[beingaware]

Just pulled apart one of the hdbw varifocal models.
Had to be slightly careful as this one will be the future weather webcam.

The electrical side is surprisingly well built but you can see where they have cut corners as well.

Was hoping to find the controller chip for the sensor but it seems to be hidden in the mechanical section of the varifocal.

@nayr do you have any suggestions with getting at it without breaking it? Haha