Dahua IPC-HDW5442 cam model difference

[karunakar]

Hi Guys,

I am planning to get 3 of IPC-HDW5442 fixed lens to cover front of the house but i am bit confused as i gone through reviews on IPC-T5442TM-AS and IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED but could not decide which one to get and best suited to my place.

Could you recommend which would be better option? and i am not sure about the lighting at my new place as i am building a house and no idea until i move in there but need to install cams before i move in to the property.

Actually, i was considering IPC-HDW5442T-ZE but it is already over my budget of going with 5442 models.

If i go with fixed IPC-HDW5442 model which lens would be better option and whats the max distance it could be better of detecting the person and number plate?

I tried 6MM lens and i am missing quite a bit before a person reaches to the property and 3.6MM seems to cover most of the area and not sure if it recognizes number plate until reaches close to camera.

Please see attached IPVM calculator images.

And any alternative 4MP camera's less than $150 AUD as IPC-HDW5442 are around $200 AUD.

Thank you in advance.
Karunakar

 

[aristobrat]

IPC-T5442TM-AS and IPC-HDW5442TM-AS-LED

Both of those cameras use the same image sensor/lens. Where they differ is how they act when it gets dark outside. At night, the TM-AS switches to B/W mode and turns on the built-in IR lights (which human eyes can't see). The TM-AS-LED remains in color mode and turns on the white LED lights (that are very visible to humans .. to me, they make the camera look like an always-on flood light). Unless you absolutely require a color image at night or need a camera with a built-in flood light (i.e. to keep your front porch illuminated at night), I think the TM-AS is probably the most appropriate model.

One of the reasons the Dahua 5442 (and equivalent Hikvision) models are relatively expensive is because they're using the latest low-light image sensor technology. There are less-expensive camera model, but they don't perform as well in low-light.

One thing to consider about number plates is that if you have any expectation of being able to capture them from moving cars at night, you're almost guaranteed to have to make settings changes in the cameras <I.e. really increase the shutter speed> that result in the camera only seeing bright things at night (like reflective number plates). That camera likely won't be able to see non-reflective things like people walking by, the car itself, etc.

In regards to lens options, IPVM is an awesome tool to help with that. As you move the guy around, in the area above where it shows you the estimated image for that distance, it should also give you some stats. PPF (pixels per foot) should be one of those stats. The recommendation is that the PPF at that distance be 100+ for the best changes of being able to ID a person you are unfamiliar with. Since you're in Australia, it might be PPM (pixels per meter) by default. I'm guessing the conversion rate would be 100ft/3.28m = 30.48+ meters you're working for?

As you've noted, a 6mm lens gives you a more narrow view but lets you ID further away from the camera. A 3.6mm lens gives you a wider view but requires people to be closer to the camera to ID. This often means you have to use multiple cameras to get everything covered. Setup a 2.8mm model that gets a wide "overview" shot of the front of your house. You'd use it just to know if anything interesting was going on, ... you're not likely to be able to ID someone with this. Then setup other cameras on key areas (like your driveway, front porch, etc) that use tighter lenses (3.6mm/6mm). They won't have nearly as wide images, but they should have more detail in each image to hopefully help ID someone.

If you're like most folks here, you're on a budget and it may make sense to buy your cameras over time. This may mean starting out with overview cameras just to know that something is going on around your house, then adding additional cameras to get the extra details that they don't provide.

 

[wittaj]

At this distance a 3.6mm or 6mm camera will not get license plates. You will need a varifocal and probably a 12x zoom one. The Z12 is the camera of choice.

 

[looney2ns]

study this

 

[karunakar]

Both of those cameras use the same image sensor/lens. Where they differ is how they act when it gets dark outside. At night, the TM-AS switches to B/W mode and turns on the built-in IR lights (which human eyes can't see). The TM-AS-LED remains in color mode and turns on the white LED lights (that are very visible to humans .. to me, they make the camera look like an always-on flood light). Unless you absolutely require a color image at night or need a camera with a built-in flood light (i.e. to keep your front porch illuminated at night), I think the TM-AS is probably the most appropriate model.

One of the reasons the Dahua 5442 (and equivalent Hikvision) models are relatively expensive is because they're using the latest low-light image sensor technology. There are less-expensive camera model, but they don't perform as well in low-light.

One thing to consider about number plates is that if you have any expectation of being able to capture them from moving cars at night, you're almost guaranteed to have to make settings changes in the cameras <I.e. really increase the shutter speed> that result in the camera only seeing bright things at night (like reflective number plates). That camera likely won't be able to see non-reflective things like people walking by, the car itself, etc.

In regards to lens options, IPVM is an awesome tool to help with that. As you move the guy around, in the area above where it shows you the estimated image for that distance, it should also give you some stats. PPF (pixels per foot) should be one of those stats. The recommendation is that the PPF at that distance be 100+ for the best changes of being able to ID a person you are unfamiliar with. Since you're in Australia, it might be PPM (pixels per meter) by default. I'm guessing the conversion rate would be 100ft/3.28m = 30.48+ meters you're working for?

As you've noted, a 6mm lens gives you a more narrow view but lets you ID further away from the camera. A 3.6mm lens gives you a wider view but requires people to be closer to the camera to ID. This often means you have to use multiple cameras to get everything covered. Setup a 2.8mm model that gets a wide "overview" shot of the front of your house. You'd use it just to know if anything interesting was going on, ... you're not likely to be able to ID someone with this. Then setup other cameras on key areas (like your driveway, front porch, etc) that use tighter lenses (3.6mm/6mm). They won't have nearly as wide images, but they should have more detail in each image to hopefully help ID someone.

If you're like most folks here, you're on a budget and it may make sense to buy your cameras over time. This may mean starting out with overview cameras just to know that something is going on around your house, then adding additional cameras to get the extra details that they don't provide.

Thank you very much for your valuable comments. I noticed from the reviews that TM-AS-LED version does not show the camera other than 2 LED glowing during night time as i want someone to notice the camera and stay away from breaking into the house. Based on your comments i may need to go with TM-AS because it has IR and I think it is noticeable from outside and i do not mind to have B/W night vision.

Yes, I understand that night time I could not identify the license plate so I am planning to get a dedicated camera for to recognize number plate in future.

Actual, my plan to get three 5442 camera with 6MM lens and installed them at 2 meters height as mentioned before and one PTZ camera (SD1A404XB-GNR or SD29204UE-GN) in the first floor balcony so that I could get an overview of the front of the house but noticed quite a lot of details are missing before someone come close to the house.



I may go for 3.6MM lens as that would capture more details than 6MM and at lease it covers 6-8 meters front of my house.

Initially, I was planning to get IPC-HDW2431TM-AS-S2 after read some reviews about it but later on decided to go with 5442 camera night vision capability even though they are expensive.

 

[karunakar]

study this

Thank you.

 

[karunakar]

At this distance a 3.6mm or 6mm camera will not get license plates. You will need a varifocal and probably a 12x zoom one. The Z12 is the camera of choice.

It is out of by budget list unless i go with IPC-HDW2431T-ZS-S2 which is not that great at night time.

 

[wittaj]

Keep in mind a plate camera is dedicated just to plates, it cannot be used as an overall cam too. So at night it runs in B/W and a fast shutter speed 1/2000 and relies on IR bounce off the plate to capture the plate. Actually you zoom it in close enough that all you should really see is the size of the car and not much more.

Here is a thread someone started that I helped out tuning up the parameters and he has a fairly close set-up to yours and you can see how even a 12x zoom it was a stretch for him as he was trying to capture all three lanes with one cam.

LPR / Security Cam duty

So I am the first house in on a neighbourhood that has experienced some breakins lately. Most folks here have settled on Ring cameras being setup for whatever reason (a neighbour swears that there the best thing since sliced bread and insists all home owners to switch to them...but I digress)...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[djernie]

It is out of by budget list unless i go with IPC-HDW2431T-ZS-S2 which is not that great at night time.

IPC-HDW2431T-ZS-S2, This is a great budget cam and it has sound. I have 3 around my place. They are great for the overview shots, i use varifocals in the same location to get close up(zoomed in) shots.

 

[karunakar]

Keep in mind a plate camera is dedicated just to plates, it cannot be used as an overall cam too. So at night it runs in B/W and a fast shutter speed 1/2000 and relies on IR bounce off the plate to capture the plate. Actually you zoom it in close enough that all you should really see is the size of the car and not much more.

Here is a thread someone started that I helped out tuning up the parameters and he has a fairly close set-up to yours and you can see how even a 12x zoom it was a stretch for him as he was trying to capture all three lanes with one cam.

LPR / Security Cam duty

So I am the first house in on a neighbourhood that has experienced some breakins lately. Most folks here have settled on Ring cameras being setup for whatever reason (a neighbour swears that there the best thing since sliced bread and insists all home owners to switch to them...but I digress)...

ipcamtalk.com

Thank you. Yes, i plan to have dedicated camera for plates only but it would get it later on and i will go through the thread.

 

[karunakar]

IPC-HDW2431T-ZS-S2, This is a great budget cam and it has sound. I have 3 around my place. They are great for the overview shots, i use varifocals in the same location to get close up(zoomed in) shots.
View attachment 66874
View attachment 66875

It is a good cam but based on the review 5442 seems to be much better because of bigger 1/1.8" sensor.

 

[djernie]

It is a good cam but based on the review 5442 seems to be much better because of bigger 1/1.8" sensor.

Yes the 5442, is better hence the higher price, i was just stating that it is a good camera to have if you do not need varifocal as it is good for overview with a great price. It also has a microphone which is what i would recommend for all cameras. In my opinion we should have more cameras for specific duty which can get expensive which is why i like having the 2431t as an option. good luck with the build and please post the progress.

 

[CJ133]

Is a Dahua NVR required in order to use features like face detection, people counting, heat map etc or can Blue Iris do that if it's supported by the camera?

 

[djernie]

Is a Dahua NVR required in order to use features like face detection, people counting, heat map etc or can Blue Iris do that if it's supported by the camera?

Nope, and yes blu iris can do it all. Make sure to check out the wiki and the cliff notes.
IP Cam Talk Wiki

 

[aristobrat]

I know BI can support IVS on Dahua cameras but didn't think it could support the face detection, people counting, or heat map features?

 

[karunakar]

Yes the 5442, is better hence the higher price, i was just stating that it is a good camera to have if you do not need varifocal as it is good for overview with a great price. It also has a microphone which is what i would recommend for all cameras. In my opinion we should have more cameras for specific duty which can get expensive which is why i like having the 2431t as an option. good luck with the build and please post the progress.

Thank you and i plan to get 2431T as well for area where i do not need 6MM lens and area that do not not need great night vision. I will post it once i move in and how all cams would perform.

 

[xtropodx]

One thing to consider about number plates is that if you have any expectation of being able to capture them from moving cars at night, you're almost guaranteed to have to make settings changes in the cameras <I.e. really increase the shutter speed> that result in the camera only seeing bright things at night (like reflective number plates). That camera likely won't be able to see non-reflective things like people walking by, the car itself, etc.

Keep in mind a plate camera is dedicated just to plates, it cannot be used as an overall cam too. So at night it runs in B/W and a fast shutter speed 1/2000 and relies on IR bounce off the plate to capture the plate. Actually you zoom it in close enough that all you should really see is the size of the car and not much more.

OT question, is vehicle number plate theft an issue for anyone where they live? Years ago thieves swapped the number plates on my car with that of a stolen vehicle, so capturing the number plate of thieves would have been completely useless. Petrol station theft where I live has also been an issue over the years with many thieves using stolen number plates. And so it's something I wonder if it's worth bothering with vs capturing a better shot of the vehicle itself. Realise the more cameras there are the better, but if you had to choose between one or the other?

 

[samplenhold]

but if you had to choose between one or the other

A lot of perps use stolen cars to commit their special crimes. They even print false paper tags to put on those cars. But a lot of jurisdictions are using real-time LPR around town. If you have an incident, get the plate number, and give it to the police, there is a good possibility that they will get a hit on that plate somewhere around town. Most perps probably do not change out the plates often.

 

[wittaj]

Something similar happened to a friend of mine - it was armed robbery of a bank.

Police raided his home at night and pulled him from bed and cuffed him and took him to the station for questioning/booking.

Upon looking at the footage of him robbing the bank and seeing the getaway vehicle he said - "that is a Jeep Grand Cherokee and I have just the Jeep Cherokee". Police do nothing except process him because he resembled the appearance of the robber.

Attorney convinces police to go back to his house and sure enough the front plate was missing from his vehicle (he lives in a two plate state).

They then get him from jail to access his videos - sure enough the day of the robbery a Jeep Grand Cherokee pulls down his street and stole the front plate.

The perp ended up getting caught and it was found out that his girlfriend worked at the BMV and had looked up Cherokee's and cross referenced with drivers license until she found someone that resembled her boyfriend.

But many more are done with legitimate plates. I would recommend a good overview cam to get the make and stuff of the vehicle, but also a plate cam. At least with plates, the police do have something to go by and can learn quickly if the plates belong to the vehicle or not. Otherwise, the likelihood of tracking down a dark 4 door sedan is almost impossible.

 

[xtropodx]

Otherwise, the likelihood of tracking down a dark 4 door sedan is almost impossible.

Very valid point I hadn't thought of. I guess it's easier to check a number plate, whether stolen or not, vs make & model of a car plus a paint job.