Do I NEED a camera in this location?

[Ri22o]

I won a Color-4K-X from Andy in his last lottery. At night it needs light; ALL of the light. There is really only one location I can use it that could have enough light and I think, unfortunately, there is just not enough light on my street for usable footage.

However, in testing this location (Front Yard, South (Low)), I like having another camera over the driveway but do I need another camera in this location? (Would likely be another 5442) I feel it doesn't show me any more than the Front Yard, South (High) camera does, but maybe the others could stand to be pointed differently? Or zoom the Varifocal in a bit more to get the end of the driveway for better Detection/Identification? Or leave them and, with this position, if there is a car in the driveway I can see both sides of it? At some point the trees will be grown more and I don't know how much the higher view will be able to see.

In question:
Front Yard, South (Low): Color-4K-X; 3.6mm
Front Yard, South (High): 5442; 3.6mm

For reference:
Driveway: 5442 Varifocal at 5mm
Front Yard: 5442; 2.8mm

 

[sebastiantombs]

The only answer is to test it yourself at night. Daytime screen caps, or even nigh time screen caps won't help at all. I do think that those cameras are both mounted too high though.

 

[mat200]

I won a Color-4K-X from Andy in his last lottery. At night it needs light; ALL of the light. There is really only one location I can use it that could have enough light and I think, unfortunately, there is just not enough light on my street for usable footage.

However, in testing this location (Front Yard, South (Low)), I like having another camera over the driveway but do I need another camera in this location? (Would likely be another 5442) I feel it doesn't show me any more than the Front Yard, South (High) camera does, but maybe the others could stand to be pointed differently? Or zoom the Varifocal in a bit more to get the end of the driveway for better Detection/Identification? Or leave them and, with this position, if there is a car in the driveway I can see both sides of it? At some point the trees will be grown more and I don't know how much the higher view will be able to see.

In question:
Front Yard, South (Low): Color-4K-X; 3.6mm
Front Yard, South (High): 5442; 3.6mm

For reference:
Driveway: 5442 Varifocal at 5mm
Front Yard: 5442; 2.8mm

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Hi @Ri22o

For me, the basic setup:

2x cameras covering the driveway
2x cameras covering the front door ( one face level, one watching package drop area )
1x camera each side of house

and since you have a mailbox on the street, 1-2 cameras covering the street ..

that's my preferred basic setup ..

adds up to 7-8 cameras ..

 

[wittaj]

From your posts in other threads, I assure you that you have enough light for the 4K-X.

You have way more light than I do. I do not have street lights, nor do I have neighbors that keep their outside lights on, and you have more homes across the street contributing light and my 4K/X is great in that situation.

My suggestions remain as they were in your previous thread:

1. You need to decide the purpose of this camera. Up high on the 2nd story, as you were seeing, even with a super fast shutter, you still won't IDENTIFY, so make it an OBSERVE overview location. So slow the shutter down to the point that you can start to make out color of cars and whether it is a two or four door, along with ability to ID clothing color and skin of a person.
2. On the 2nd story, the roof is preventing a lot of light from getting to this camera and is inevitably ruining the exposure. The roof is essentially acting like a sun visor on a car, well in this case a light visor from the bottom. Either accept that and run the camera as more OBSERVE and RECOGNIZE or move it down to the 1st floor to get IDENTIFY in your driveway.

 

[Ri22o]

The only answer is to test it yourself at night. Daytime screen caps, or even nigh time screen caps won't help at all. I do think that those cameras are both mounted too high though.

Why will daytime screen captures not help when I am asking for an opinion on whether I need a camera in this location? I have tested at night.

Hi @Ri22o

For me, the basic setup:

2x cameras covering the driveway
2x cameras covering the front door ( one face level, one watching package drop area )
1x camera each side of house

and since you have a mailbox on the street, 1-2 cameras covering the street ..

that's my preferred basic setup ..

adds up to 7-8 cameras ..

I have plenty of other cameras, some in those locations. I am really only asking specifically about this one.

From your posts in other threads, I assure you that you have enough light for the 4K-X.

You have way more light than I do. I do not have street lights, nor do I have neighbors that keep their outside lights on, and you have more homes across the street contributing light and my 4K/X is great in that situation.

My suggestions remain as they were in your previous thread:

1. You need to decide the purpose of this camera. Up high on the 2nd story, as you were seeing, even with a super fast shutter, you still won't IDENTIFY, so make it an OBSERVE overview location. So slow the shutter down to the point that you can start to make out color of cars and whether it is a two or four door, along with ability to ID clothing color and skin of a person.
2. On the 2nd story, the roof is preventing a lot of light from getting to this camera and is inevitably ruining the exposure. The roof is essentially acting like a sun visor on a car, well in this case a light visor from the bottom. Either accept that and run the camera as more OBSERVE and RECOGNIZE or move it down to the 1st floor to get IDENTIFY in your driveway.

I will need to look, but did you post your settings for your 4K-X? I know mine will be different, but I would like to see how they compare. I have made changes since I last posted in that thread but am still not happy with what I am seeing.

 

[mat200]

Why will daytime screen captures not help when I am asking for an opinion on whether I need a camera in this location? I have tested at night.


I have plenty of other cameras, some in those locations. I am really only asking specifically about this one.


I will need to look, but did you post your settings for your 4K-X? I know mine will be different, but I would like to see how they compare. I have made changes since I last posted in that thread but am still not happy with what I am seeing.

since you already have many cameras:

imho I would place the Color-4K-X in the location which gives you the best low light color data you need to compliment your other cameras ...

I can not answer this question definitively without knowing how well other cameras are doing in low light conditions and what your coverage is.

 

[CCTVCam]

Should do well lower down. Alternatively you could ask Andy if he will swap it for a 5442 if you're really that disatisfied.

Plenty of people run the 4kx at night without huge amounts of light. However, if you feel you need lower light performance, the 5442 is the way to go. Beyond that, your choice is to stop forcing colour and use a 5442 with IR. The 5442 and 4KX are probably the best 2 cameras available for a reasonable price right now so it's pretty much one or other.

 

[Flintstone61]

Im sure somebody on here would trade you for a cracked 5231 with Camo,,,,,,

 

[Ri22o]

From your posts in other threads, I assure you that you have enough light for the 4K-X.

You have way more light than I do. I do not have street lights, nor do I have neighbors that keep their outside lights on, and you have more homes across the street contributing light and my 4K/X is great in that situation.

My suggestions remain as they were in your previous thread:

1. You need to decide the purpose of this camera. Up high on the 2nd story, as you were seeing, even with a super fast shutter, you still won't IDENTIFY, so make it an OBSERVE overview location. So slow the shutter down to the point that you can start to make out color of cars and whether it is a two or four door, along with ability to ID clothing color and skin of a person.
2. On the 2nd story, the roof is preventing a lot of light from getting to this camera and is inevitably ruining the exposure. The roof is essentially acting like a sun visor on a car, well in this case a light visor from the bottom. Either accept that and run the camera as more OBSERVE and RECOGNIZE or move it down to the 1st floor to get IDENTIFY in your driveway.

Part of my question that it looks like I didn't convey well enough is do I need a camera in both locations (high and low) that are essentially gathering the same information? I know the high location is not ideal for the 4K-X, but if I low mount it is there still reason to have the high 5442?

Should do well lower down. Alternatively you could ask Andy if he will swap it for a 5442 if you're really that dissatisfied.

Plenty of people run the 4kx at night without huge amounts of light. However, if you feel you need lower light performance, the 5442 is the way to go. Beyond that, your choice is to stop forcing colour and use a 5442 with IR. The 5442 and 4KX are probably the best 2 cameras available for a reasonable price right now so it's pretty much one or other.

I have tried the 5442 in color and the 4K-X does much better, but still not as well as I had expected. I will grab some clips from last night and post them.

Currently my 5442s are set for B/W and I use IR floods. I am not forcing them to color.

 

[wittaj]

Maybe test the 5442 varifocal at the 2nd story and see if you can optically zoom it in to a pinch point on the sidewalk to get a person walking by and move the 4K/X to the bottom.

While they may be covering the same areas, getting color is beneficial to compliment B/W. While we can get better details in B/W, it is impossible to make out many other things like color of car, clothing, etc. Running a mixture of B/W and color is a good thing.

And then you have 3 other sides of the house that you could cover as well if you ultimately decide that the fields of view are too similar.

Personally I say if you have it and passes the WAF, the more angles and coverage you have, the better. Having the same area covered by 2 or more cameras is good.

 

[looktall]

Part of my question that it looks like I didn't convey well enough is do I need a camera in both locations (high and low) that are essentially gathering the same information?

What are you trying to achieve with it?
The high camera looks like it's only useful for watching your neighbours houses across the street.
I feel it might be better positioned to replace your 2.8mm camera watching your yard.

 

[Ri22o]

Maybe test the 5442 varifocal at the 2nd story and see if you can optically zoom it in to a pinch point on the sidewalk to get a person walking by and move the 4K/X to the bottom.

While they may be covering the same areas, getting color is beneficial to compliment B/W. While we can get better details in B/W, it is impossible to make out many other things like color of car, clothing, etc. Running a mixture of B/W and color is a good thing.

And then you have 3 other sides of the house that you could cover as well if you ultimately decide that the fields of view are too similar.

Personally I say if you have it and passes the WAF, the more angles and coverage you have, the better. Having the same area covered by 2 or more cameras is good.

That's why I posted the other cameras too, there is a lot of overlap on my front yard and driveway.

I am pulling and uploading videos now, I will post them when they are done. After looking, the 4K-X may not be as bad as I had led on.

 

[Ri22o]

@wittaj

These are some clips from last night, and my settings. I'm not saying they are right, but I just wanted to see what might work.

What are you trying to achieve with it?
The high camera looks like it's only useful for watching your neighbours houses across the street.
I feel it might be better positioned to replace your 2.8mm camera watching your yard.

I'm not quite sure what you are asking. Some of your statements are ambiguous.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah I think we can improve on those settings.

Take gain to 40 or 50

Drop gamma to 50, Brightness to 55 and contrast to 61

Drop NR to 40.

See what that does.

 

[Ri22o]

Yeah I think we can improve on those settings.

Take gain to 40 or 50

Drop gamma to 50, Brightness to 55 and contrast to 61

Drop NR to 40.

See what that does.

Adjusted. There were a lot of artifacts; I had to increase NR.

3DNR is 50
2DNR is 43

At some point it got set to clip the recording when triggered so I wasn't able to get the full clip of down and back, but this should be sufficient.

 

[wittaj]

Hmm...it almost looked better before, but the previous one had some white light when the person was walking around compared to this one.

Bump the exposure comp to 50 - on the older cameras exp comp only applied when on auto shutter, but I have noticed it will impact this camera.

If that doesn't brighten it then try a 1/60 shutter.

 

[Ri22o]

Hmm...it almost looked better before, but the previous one had some white light when the person was walking around compared to this one.

Bump the exposure comp to 50 - on the older cameras exp comp only applied when on auto shutter, but I have noticed it will impact this camera.

If that doesn't brighten it then try a 1/60 shutter.

Yea, with the other one I had tripped the can lights on my porch and they turned on. I would say Halloween is the worst time of year for light on my street and I probably shouldn't be as critical right now. Normally all of the coach lights are white and with Christmas coming there will be way more light available on the street.

Exposure comp didn't change anything. I set it all of the way to 100 with no difference. This is at 50 and 1/60.

I have no clue what is going on with the stutter step.

 

[wittaj]

The stutter is usually a limitation in your system somewhere:

• Running the camera at many of the rated specs like too high of FPS.
• Camera connected to the router.
• Overloaded switch or peripheral.
• Computer cannot handle the load.

 

[Ri22o]

The stutter is usually a limitation in your system somewhere:

• Running the camera at many of the rated specs like too high of FPS.
• Camera connected to the router.
• Overloaded switch or peripheral.
• Computer cannot handle the load.

15fps, H264, 8192kbps
Camera is connected directly to a POE switch in the garage and is the only piece of hardware plugged into the switch.
BI CPU and MEM usage is <8% and 30%, respectively.

Playback on BI and UI3 is fine. It seems to only do it when it is exported.

 

[Broachoski]

I have seen the same :stutter" issue on a neighbors BI system on Windows 11. We share the same setting but my Win 10 exports fine.