HAC-HFW1200R-VF-IRE6 vs IPC-HFW4431R-Z

[Basjke]

I found a few threads on this forum praising the IPC-HFW4431R-Z for its quality. Now I found the HAC-HFW1200R-VF-IRE6 which is the 2mp version of the former, but is a lot cheaper.
I also found posts on this forum that, unless I misunderstand them, say that a 2Mp is better in night vision than a 4mp.

Does anyone have experience with the HAC-HFW1200R-VF-IRE6 ?

 

[bigredfish]

The "HAC" prefix denotes that this is an HDCVI camera, not an IP camera - FYI

Generally speaking yes, you will get a better image out of a 2MP camera at night than a 4MP of the same model

 

[Basjke]

The "HAC" prefix denotes that this is an HDCVI camera, not an IP camera - FYI

Generally speaking yes, you will get a better image out of a 2MP camera at night than a 4MP of the same model

Thanks for the warning, I hadn't noticed that, so this camera is of no interest to me.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

HAC is not IP ones, and sometimes good for budget which is limited. Not bad.

 

[Basjke]

HAC is not IP ones, and sometimes good for budget which is limited. Not bad.

The budget was the reason it caught my eye, however I have Ethernet cable in place and would have to pull coax in this case, I'm still considering as it is a 2mp camera.

I notice that the sensor is 1/2.7" where the majority of IP cameras is 1/3"

Is that smaller sensor size a positive or rather a negative?

 

[bigredfish]

You do NOT have to use coax to run HDCVI cameras. They work just fine using Cat5 or Cat6, you just have to add a $8 video balun to each camera connection.

That said, you DO have to have a DVR capable of recording HDCVI. Dahua makes DVR's that will work with both HDCVI and IP cameras. See this thread:
IP Cameras comparable Axis

If you already have an IP based NVR system, or plan on using a PC based solution with Blue Iris for example, you will need to go with IP cameras.

 

[Basjke]

You do NOT have to use coax to run HDCVI cameras. They work just fine using Cat5 or Cat6, you just have to add a $8 video balun to each camera connection.

That said, you DO have to have a DVR capable of recording HDCVI. Dahua makes DVR's that will work with both HDCVI and IP cameras. See this thread:
IP Cameras comparable Axis

If you already have an IP based NVR system, or plan on using a PC based solution with Blue Iris for example, you will need to go with IP cameras.

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware of it.

Do you may be have a link to such a balun, so i know what to search for? I can find this on Ebay, but no idea how you connect a Cat5 cable to that.

2x CAT5 CCTV Camera Passive BNC Video Balun to UTP Connector Transceiver XB NEW

I had this VXR in mind, which seems to be IP and HDCVI compatible.

Aliexpress.com : Buy Dahua 4/8/16ch Penta brid 1080P Lite Mini 1U Video Recorder XVR5104HE XVR5108HE XVR5116HE Support HDCVI/AHD/TVI/CVBS/IP camera from Reliable video recorder suppliers on Shenzhen Jimbu security Co.,Ltd 2016 Store

 

[Basjke]

You do NOT have to use coax to run HDCVI cameras. They work just fine using Cat5 or Cat6, you just have to add a $8 video balun to each camera connection.

That said, you DO have to have a DVR capable of recording HDCVI. Dahua makes DVR's that will work with both HDCVI and IP cameras. See this thread:
IP Cameras comparable Axis

If you already have an IP based NVR system, or plan on using a PC based solution with Blue Iris for example, you will need to go with IP cameras.

Great advice, thanks. I just watched a Youtube how to connect those baluns, and it seems I can even make my own cheap PoE if I buy the right adapters.

You think the $1 Ebay baluns will do the job?

 

[bigredfish]

That DVR should work, there are better models, but it should suit your needs (Note: you will only get a max 15fps on that DVR at 1080p).
Recommend buying the biggest you can afford, 16 ch even if you only plan on 8 for now.

I would recommend these:
XVR7204/08/16A | Dahua Technology
http://www1.dahuasecurity.com/products/hcvr72040816a-s3-5251.html (I own this one)

If you want to future proof your system somewhat and use 4MP and 4K cameras that are just now coming out, you might close your eyes and buy one of these:
XVR8808/16S | Dahua Technology
HCVR7204/08AN-4K

*Note that the second number designates the number of Hard Drives you can use- 7208= 2 HD's
**Also Note that the models with "AN" at the end typically don't have Alarm inputs or relay outputs


Yes I use those type of passive baluns you linked to myself.

See this page/thread about baluns and how to connect everything
IP Cameras comparable Axis

 

[Basjke]

That DVR should work, there are better models, but it should suit your needs (Note: you will only get a max 15fps on that DVR at 1080p).
Recommend buying the biggest you can afford, 16 ch even if you only plan on 8 for now.

I would recommend these:
XVR7204/08/16A | Dahua Technology
http://www1.dahuasecurity.com/products/hcvr72040816a-s3-5251.html (I own this one)

If you want to future proof your system somewhat and use 4MP and 4K cameras that are just now coming out, you might close your eyes and buy one of these:
XVR8808/16S | Dahua Technology
HCVR7204/08AN-4K

*Note that the second number designates the number of Hard Drives you can use- 7208= 2 HD's
**Also Note that the models with "AN" at the end typically don't have Alarm inputs or relay outputs


Yes I use those type of passive baluns you linked to myself.

See this page/thread about baluns and how to connect everything
IP Cameras comparable Axis

Thanks again, I have to learn a lot and it seems I'm in the right school here, as I hadn't noticed about the 15fps limit, but what is the disadvantage of having only 15fps?

Will that offer a less clear picture?

I will install only 6 cameras with no real plan to install more, but with a 8ch I have still 2 slots left. Is there another reason why i should go for a 16ch?

The cameras are available in PAL or NTSC, does it make a difference which version I order?

 

[bigredfish]

Many here will tell you all you need is 15fps. I personally like the smoother playback of full motion which is 30fps. There are instances where it can make a difference

No, technically it will not affect your picture quality, only the smoothness of the video.

I only thought I'd need 6 cameras at my house, I used 8 and would like to have 2 more... YMMV but you will likely find dead coverage spots after you initially get setup and wish you had more...

With IP cams it makes no difference except that your max frame rate is 25 for PAL vs 30 for NTSC. For HDCVI, you should stay with NTSC. Recommend staying with all NTSC

 

[bigredfish]

On the cameras:
1- Make sure and pay very close attention to the model numbers if buying from Ebay or AliExpress. There are some that are Chinese only you do not want.
2- Stick with the models on the International site here
3- As Dahua has introduced almost the entire line of 2MPHDCVI cams in Starlight models - 2231 series, try and resist saving a few bucks on non-Starlight cameras. The difference is Yuuuge
4- The top of the line 2MP HDCVI camera currently is the 3231E-Z Starlight
5- The most popular 2MP IP camera around these parts lately is the http://www1.dahuasecurity.com/products/ipc-hdw5231r-z-3651.html

 

[Basjke]

Many here will tell you all you need is 15fps. I personally like the smoother playback of full motion which is 30fps. There are instances where it can make a difference

No, technically it will not affect your picture quality, only the smoothness of the video.

I only thought I'd need 6 cameras at my house, I used 8 and would like to have 2 more... YMMV but you will likely find dead coverage spots after you initially get setup and wish you had more...

With IP cams it makes no difference except that your max frame rate is 25 for PAL vs 30 for NTSC. For HDCVI, you should stay with NTSC. Recommend staying with all NTSC

I just watched some youtubes showing a comparison in frame rate and as far as I could figure, but my eyes and brain are old already , the higher frame rate seems to be more important for fast moving objects.

Since my cameras are only viewing inside my closed perimeter, I don't expect many fast moving objects to be detected, and after all it will be a difference of about $60.

Thanks for the advice and suggestions, it's much appreciated.

I will go for the NTSC version of the cameras.

 

[Basjke]

On the cameras:
1- Make sure and pay very close attention to the model numbers if buying from Ebay or AliExpress. There are some that are Chinese only you do not want.
2- Stick with the models on the International site here
3- As Dahua has introduced almost the entire line of 2MPHDCVI cams in Starlight models - 2231 series, try and resist saving a few bucks on non-Starlight cameras. The difference is Yuuuge
4- The top of the line 2MP HDCVI camera currently is the 3231E-Z Starlight
5- The most popular 2MP IP camera around these parts lately is the IPC-HDW5231R-Z | Dahua Technology

The camera I have in mind is the HAC-HFW1200R-VF-IRE6, which I can find on several official Dahua sites, including Thailand, Middle East and Russia.

I have a feeling that the camera is discontinued, but I get it for 53 Euro include shipping from Aliexpress, so I consider this a good deal.

I'm really not ready to spend top bucks for the top of the line cameras, rather look for a affordable price for acceptable quality.

I live in an area where crime is very low, never heard of a burglary in the 6 years I live here. I wanted to go with the 4Mp IP version of this camera, but then I read here that 2Mp cameras actually give a better night vision, so was happy to find said camera.

 

[Basjke]

The camera is on the international site.

HAC-HFW1200R-VF-IRE6 | Dahua Technology

 

[bigredfish]

Cool. good luck.

Do know the Starlight 2MP cams are far better than standard 2MP cams at night. Big difference.

Also check and ask vendor on your DVR for the NTSC version. Like I said on IP cams it makes little difference, but with a possible mix of CVI and IP cams you are probably going to want to stay all NTSC on both cams and DVR

 

[Basjke]

Cool. good luck.

Do know the Starlight 2MP cams are far better than standard 2MP cams at night. Big difference.

Also check and ask vendor on your DVR for the NTSC version. Like I said on IP cams it makes little difference, but with a possible mix of CVI and IP cams you are probably going to want to stay all NTSC on both cams and DVR

Thanks, one last question.

I notice in the spec that this is a varifocal lens, but there is no mention about motorized, so I guess I will have to disassemble the camera to set the right size and there will also no zoom available.

So may be better go with the IPC-HFW4431R-Z at 15 Euro/piece extra, or is the zoom and motorized function actually not used any more once installed?

There will be nobody viewing the cameras ever, so they will constantly record, and only be viewed if there ever was an event.

 

[bigredfish]

The motorized lens is very helpful for install, but no you will not likely use it once installed. On the 1200 series you set the focus and zoom manually, correct.

If you are staying with non-starlight, then yes that motorized 4MP IP cam should be fine.

Best choice would be the CVI Starlight version, motorized HAC-HFW2231R-Z-IRE6

 

[Basjke]

The motorized lens is very helpful for install, but no you will not likely use it once installed. On the 1200 series you set the focus and zoom manually, correct.

If you are staying with non-starlight, then yes that motorized 4MP IP cam should be fine.

Best choice would be the CVI Starlight version, motorized HAC-HFW2231R-Z-IRE6

Thanks, I'm well aware that the starlight versions will be superior, but it would double the cost of my installation compared to the 4MP version and that isn't worth for me.

Now regarding that 4MP camera, I did a search on this forum and there are several threads all from the end of last year.

I'm only confused, because in one thread the camera get praised all over, and in a thread only a few weeks later, that same camera get slagged off .

Dahua H2.65 IPC-HFW4431R-Z 2.8mm ~12mm

Dahua Bullet (IPC-HFW4431R-Z) First Thoughts

So which one do I have to take for the truth?

 

[bigredfish]

Both actually.
Its cheap because its a Chinese version knockoff, it's not on the Dahua site.
Its standard 4MP so it wont do as well at night as a similar 2MP cam. Probably performs very well in daylight.

For the relatively small $25-$30 difference, i think you would be foolish to choose it over the -HFW2231R-Z-IRE6