IP Cameras comparable Axis

Discussion in 'IP Cameras' started by cdltech, May 12, 2017.

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  1. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    I found ipcamtalk about a week ago. I was going to buy a couple Axis M3105-LVE IP cameras. To replace my 5+ year old analog camera system at my home. After reading through many of the forums on here. I want to make sure it is a good purchase. I don't mind spending the money on something that is quality product. I also don't want to over pay. Are there any IP cameras that are comparable in video quality but less expensive than the Axis cameras?

    I did some reading and youtube videos about their cameras before finding this site.
    I have read about the Chinese cameras. I am not interested in those. Seems like to much hit and miss to find good ones. I don't mind some Chinese products. I have just read to many negative things about the IP cameras.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. bigredfish

    bigredfish Getting comfortable

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    Axis makes some very good stuff. They are known to be very reliable. I have a couple of 1MP (1364) and 2MP (1365) Axis cameras I inherited for the HOA that I manage.

    That said, I wouldn't recommend anyone spend $300-$400 on an Axis fixed 2.8mm camera with less features and no better image quality that you'll find on $100-$150 2MP IP cameras from Dahua or HIKvision. There are many threads here on the subject. Look at the Dahua Starlight thread and spend 30 minutes before throwing that money away.

    If you have an existing Analog system using coax? or even Cat5, you could also do as I did at my home, went with Dahua HDCVI cameras. Basically the same image quality and features as IP cams, with less hassle and little networking knowledge/concerns. Cameras such as the 3231E-Z will put that Axis model to shame for less than 1/2 the price.

    Here is the Dome model of that series

    See my comments here
    and here
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
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  3. whoslooking

    whoslooking Known around here

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    I would not pay axis the money the demand although a well built camera it's not worth the money.

    Axis vs Dahua or Hikvision it's a no brainer all are good quality but HIK'S TVI is so cheap and such a well built units.
     
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  4. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    @bigredfish Thank you for the information. I will read through those comment threads you mentioned. I was actually planning on replacing my Siamese analog cable with cat5e. I received a 1000 ft spool of cat5e on tuesday. I have had some of my cameras stop working. Not sure if it was the cables or the camera. So I just want to re-wire everything with cat5e.
    I was looking at the IP/POE cameras that Dahua has. The the specs on them are pretty impressive. This maybe already answered in the comment threads you mentioned. Where do I buy these from? I did a search and only found some alibaba (however it was spelled) site. I didn't like the looks of the site. Not sure I want to order from them.
    I did find many places that sell the HIKvision. They look pretty good as well. I like the prices of both brands much better.
    Considering I will be replacing sub 1 MP/ 1 MP standard definition cameras. Anything is going to be a improvement.
     
  5. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    @whoslooking Thanks. I wasn't real excited about the prices of the Axis cameras. I like the specs of both the Dahua and HIKvision. I will have to decide on which brand. Then decide which model.
     
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  6. bigredfish

    bigredfish Getting comfortable

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    HDCVI will run on either coax or cat5e, my home system is cat5e

    With a Tribrid or XVR DVR from Dahua, you have the ability to run any type of camera. Analog, HDCVI, or IP. Its a nice way to start with a solid DVR based system and still be able to upgrade or mix with various IP cameras if/when you need to. This is what I did when i upgraded from old analog.

    Where to buy
    The gentleman from AliExpress - forum member Andy, has a big following here on the forum and is a supplier of Dahua equipment. His store is at:
    --Starlight 2MP - Wholesale products with online transaction

    I've also personally made a number of purchases from CCTV-Mall.

    Dahua is also available in the US, more expensive of course:
    B&H Photo
    NewEgg

    IP Cameras
    If you want to do IP cameras- start here:
    Dahua 2MP Starlight lineup


    HDCVI
    If you go HDCVI, I would recommend the best HDVCI camera available which rivals the IP versions of the Starlight series -
    Bullets - HFW3231E-Z
    Dome - HDBW3231E-Z

    DVR
    Tribrid DVR
    or
    Newer Penta-brid XVR
     
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  7. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    Oh I see it runs on cat5e. I missed that in your previous message. I am watching some youtube videos in addition to reading the forums here. It is an interesting technology.

    How are the Tribrid DVR and Penta-brid XVR compared to a computer based DVR like Blue Iris?
    I have been using an analog system from LTS. It has done well the past 5 years so so. I am hoping the activation zone detection is better with today's technology. I don't need anything very fancy. As long as I can export video when necessary and view it with my smart phone. It would save me the $400 to $500 upgrading a spare computer or buying refurbished one.
     
  8. bigredfish

    bigredfish Getting comfortable

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    I find the newer Dahua DVR's/NVR's very reliable and easy to use. I don't think they give up much as I havent really found anything I can't do with the DVR that would require BI...I've not used Blue Iris so can't really say, but many here seem to find it a good system.

    If you go the mixed system route, HDCVI with IP cams where you have the need, then you must go with the DVR. BI won't play with HDCVI.
    If you go the 100% IP camera route, then you should evaluate the advantages/disadvantages of a computer based BI system vs an NVR. You're going to spend that $400-$500 either way.

    Most newer DVR's will have the features you mentioned and a lot more. Motion detection, is still so-so as they all use simple changes in the pixels to activate. Rain, bugs, fog, leaves- yeah still a problem, but if you spend some time you can minimize most of it. The new IVS features (Tripwire, Intrusion) improve upon plain MD but are still susceptible to false alarms. The only way to really improve MD is to use external PIR and other dedicated sensors.
     
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  9. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    I would rather spend the $400 to $500 (like I did when I bought the analog dvr) on a NVR. I like the small form factor of it. My issue with the motion detection is mostly late detection's. I would have a person show up on a camera but not on the previous one. Another example is. I can see my self entering the house. Though the camera looking at the driveway sometimes doesn't see me getting out of the car. Leaves, furnace exhaust condensing, bugs, rain is understandable. Some of it can be masked out of the frame. The others I just accept.
    Thanks for all the information you provided to me. It is appreciated. Once I get through all these youtube videos and the comments on the forum. I will see what I going to do.
     
  10. bigredfish

    bigredfish Getting comfortable

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    Slight update in DVR's- this is the newer Ultra series Tribrid - HCVR8208A-S3
    8 (they have a 16 also) channels of HDCVI and up to 64 channels of IP cameras up to 12MB
    Max 256Mbps Incoming Bandwidth

    Here at CCTV-Mall for $420

    Once I upgrade Mom's house with my current 7208A-S3 I'll be getting me one of these :)
     
  11. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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  12. bigredfish

    bigredfish Getting comfortable

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    I'm not an expert with the IP/POE NVR's but seems like most of the gurus like the 5200 series..
    Dahua NVR 5216-16P-4KS2

    Standard advise is to go up on size, to 8ch in your case, like ammo, you can never have too many channels ;)
     
  13. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    Thanks. I have been watching Nayr's youtube videos and reading his comments. There are so many cameras to decide on. Just when I think I have decided. I find another one.
     
  14. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    @bigredfish After much consideration. I have decided to go with the HDCVI. I still have some newer 720p analog cameras that are still working. So I figured I would replace the cameras that are not working with HDCVI cameras. If I want to add IP cameras in the future. I will be ready for them.
    Since HDCVI uses the same cables. I will just need to replace the one that could have water damage. I don't know what killed the camera. I am just going to replace that cable just to be safe.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  15. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    Have you had any experience with the HAC-HDBW3231E-Z? It is the dome version of the camera you use. I am currently using turret cameras. I am just concerned about any possible glare from the dome. For when the IR leds are used at night.

    How is this HDCVI recorder different from the one you are wanting to get?
    HCVR5204/08/16A-S3
     
  16. bigredfish

    bigredfish Getting comfortable

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    I have not tried the dome. Not particularly a fan of them with IR reflection issues and what not...I do love the Ultra series Starlight 3231E-Z bullet, it is the top of the line in 2MP CVI Starlights with features and settings the others simply dont have. One unique feature I like a LOT is that if you use WDR in the daytime, (I have lots of trees with shadows so it helps a TON), the cam will by default turn WDR OFF when it auto-switches to nighttime B&W with IR on. This is a very good thing as WDR tends to cause motion blur at night. Most of the others wont do this by themselves.

    I'm not 100% on the DVR difference but I would go with the 7200 series or the XVR. On a previous "Lite" version DVR which is now pulling duty at Mom's, I could only run 15fps max on each channel. There is a clear restriction. On the 7208-S3 I have now, I can run 30fps on all 8 channels. I see in the spec on the 5200 page you linked to it says Record 1080p 1-15fps...Also go as big as you can on the DVR. Even consider the 16ch if it isnt too much more money. Even if you dont use the extra channels, you will gain max input Mbps capability, probably for $50 or so its worth it. The sweet spot are these - the Pro units
    1U


    On the Pro series cameras, Dahua has released a full lineup of Starlights in all form factors! - the 2231 series. I just havent seen them in the wild yet. Maybe another month or so...Or maybe Andy here can get them for us?
    HDCVI Camera

    I know the non-starlight 2221 is another great motorized vari-focal bullet with strong IR, I have 2 of them and would recommend them for longer distance say a deep backyard, at night. The new 2231 is the same camera in Starlight and should be awesome. I'm personally looking for 2 of the new Turrets in Starlight. I would recommend them over the domes. These would be comparable to the IP version 5231 turret so highly regarded here on the forum. Of course with the Tribrid or XVR you could simply choose to run the IP version if you want. Thats the cool thing with these multi-input DVR's.

    Here's a good resource for all things Dahua
    Dahua Wiki
     
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  17. bigredfish

    bigredfish Getting comfortable

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    By the way, stay away from any of the DVR models that have an "N" at the end of the model number. "N" apparently stands for NO alarm inputs/outputs
     
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  18. h901

    h901 Getting the hang of it

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    After doing lots of research my opinion is that Dahua and Hikvision are decent cameras but if money is not an issue I'd go with Axis anyday
     
  19. bigredfish

    bigredfish Getting comfortable

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    If money was no object I'd have nice place in the islands, a 42' Whaler and a 21yo hot blonde girlfriend
     
  20. CYANiDE

    CYANiDE Young grasshopper

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    Just my .02.....

    I've run Axis/Avigilon 2MP head-to-head with Dahua/HIK 4MP cameras and the Axis/Avigilon's blow them out of the water - especially when viewing in a VMS/digital zooming, etc. More pixels doesn't mean that much of the quality of the components aren't great. I'm a bit biased as I'm in the commercial integration side and I get to play with these "fancy" cameras all day.

    However, Dahua/Hik is an AMAZING value for the money - no one else can compete dollar for dollar for a small installation where you don't need anything fancy.
     
  21. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    I could be wrong here. The issue with the Pro series is the price. They are just under the price of the Axis cameras. I have seen some pro's (not the ones you are referring but older models) going for $300 +/-. At that rate the Axis prices really don't look that bad.
    The reason I like the 3231-Z is the price vs quality. I just prefer a turret over the bullet. They have the 3231-Z as a dome with the same specs. Other than a short IR distance. I am just concerned about the IR reflection in the dome. If only I could get a turret version of the 3231-Z. I would be very happy.

    You think the non-starlight 2221 would be better than the starlight 3231-Z bullet for longer distance? The IR distance for the 3231-Z bullet is 328 feet. The dome version is half the distance of the bullet version.

    I went back and re-read the specs. I didn't notice the 15 fps limitation. I plan on using 15 fps but having the ability of going higher is nice. I have read that using a higher fps during the night. I lessens the blur of things.
    Is there a setting in the DVR to change these automatically? Say during the day use 15 fps but during the night use 24 or 29.
     
  22. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    I know what you mean. I come from an IT background. It is hard for me to buy or use consumer grade equipment. Especially when it comes networking.

    That is my reasoning for Dahua. It is priced well and looks decent enough for what I need. What I have mentioned this before. The majority of my cameras are sub 1 MP. I only have one that is 1.3 MP and can do 720p. So anything is going to be an improvement for me.
     
  23. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    There is no truth to that statement...you were misinformed...
    There is no way that a standard axis camera looked better than the dahua starlight in low light...its not even a contest...
     
  24. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    If money wasn't an issue. I would have a gated house with my own security team. I tend to like blond or black hair 23 yo.
     
  25. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    @fenderman I didn't say or was referring to that. CYANiDE made that comment. I was commenting on one of Dahua's DVR's.
     
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  26. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    I see that now....not that my first comment was directed at the frame rate...you dont need more than 15 and a higher rate will have zero effect on motion blur..
     
  27. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    Bigredfish and I were talking about the difference between the 5000 and 7000 Dahua DVRs.
     
  28. cdltech

    cdltech Young grasshopper

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    @fenderman I am only going on what I have read. I have no experience in that in any way. Thank you for pointing that out. There is a lot I don't know about CCTV. I am learning. I have learned a lot from your posts and Bigredfish among others.
     
  29. CYANiDE

    CYANiDE Young grasshopper

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    fenderman - I haven't compared a starlight to anything so I can't create a comparison there. I was more so referencing a Dahua/Hik 4MP dome vs. an Axis 2MP dome in normal lighting conditions. I don't get to play with the Dahua/HIKs as much as I'd like.
     
  30. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Take a look at the starlight thread, you'll appreciate the improvement...