Hard drive size and brand questions

5string

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I am slowly piecing my system together. I currently have, or have ordered:

Hikvision 7608NI-E2/P8
Longse S500
Longse A400

I plan to add a few more 2-4mp cameras, not likely to exceed 6 total. I would like to record at max quality and framerate, motion detection during day, continuous at night for 10+ days.

I am looking at the following drives:
WD Purple 2tb
WD Purple 3tb
WD purple 4tb
Seagate Surveillance 2tb
Seagate Surveillance 4tb
HGST Deskstar NAS 4tb (best 4tb price available)

Also, is there a way for the NVR to transfer to online storage (ie rolling 7 current days local, 7 previous days online)?

Thanks for your suggestions and assistance!
 

JFire

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Just from playing with my 2 4mp camera today for the 1st time I can tell you continously recording at max is going to take multiple 4tb drives. Which I'm sure is pretty easy to figure out.

My dahua nvr has the ability to upload to Dropbox and another cloudsite.

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5string

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Just from playing with my 2 4mp camera today for the 1st time I can tell you continously recording at max is going to take multiple 4tb drives. Which I'm sure is pretty easy to figure out.

My dahua nvr has the ability to upload to Dropbox and another cloudsite.

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I figured I was over-reaching. What do most folks use for residential systems? 15fps 1080p?
 

JFire

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I'm a noob. I literally hooked my 1st two cameras up today.

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CoreyX64

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If you can afford purples, go purple. These are nothing more than rebranded reds (NAS drives designed for constant uptime) with different firmware to handle multiple recording streams simultaneously. They are excellent drives. As far as longevity goes, they're too new for any of us to tell. They've only been on the market 2 years or so. I personally have a lot of 8 of them in service at a few different locations in Hikvision NVRs and no issues whatsoever.

Avoid Seagate like the plague - they simply do not last. The higher the capacity, the shorter the life. I toss so many Seagates it's not funny. Back in the day they used to be good and WD used to have a higher failure rate, lately they've traded places by comparison.

HGST is short for Hitachi a Global Storage Technologies. Hitachi is a decent brand to buy as well. I've had fairly good luck with them with regular computers (never put one in an NVR). However WD bought them out a few years ago, so if you see a drive branded as Hitachi, it's truly a hitachi drive. If it says HGST, it's Western Digital. While I haven't had an HGST drive come back to me dead YET, so far so good.

Another aside on the rebrand note, Samsung, who once manufacturered Rock solid drives, sold their HDD division to none other than Seagate. As such, any Samsung branded drive that has a model number starting with ST (Seagate technologies) is junk. If it's an older one starting with HD, it's good. The common name for them is SpinPoint, but Seagate still carries this name which is misleading to anyone hunting for a Samsung drive because they're just using the name which I think is wrong. Just absorb Samsung's HDD op and be done with it. Don't mislead customers. I fell victim to this once and never again. Died 8 months into service, replacement died 6 months later.

I am also a daredevil and deploy greens in my NVRs on occasion, which is explicitly frowned upon because greens have a slower spindle. (Variable speed between 5400-5900 RPM, while purples reds and blacks are solid 7200). You *may* experience degraded performance with greens because of the slower speed. With that being said, the only time they have every hiccuped is if I open playback on a full matrix of IP cams and play them back at some ridiculously fast speed. Playback of less cams or less image quality they do fine. I'm not trying to justify the usage of green drives, because someone here will shoot me down in an instant, I'm just giving an honest perspective of my drive variations. While I can manage to make them work, I would never recommend them for a beginner or someone not familiar with recording and storage technologies.


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5string

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The WD Purple drives on newegg state they have "Intellipower" 5400rpm. Is there a place to get the 7200rpm drives? Is 5400rpm a deal-killer?
 

alastairstevenson

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A useful perspective on the standard choices we face for HDDs.

I'm not trying to justify the usage of green drives, because someone here will shoot me down in an instant, I'm just giving an honest perspective of my drive variations. While I can manage to make them work, I would never recommend them for a beginner or someone not familiar with recording and storage technologies.
Bang! But just to add a little bit. Not disagreeing.
A couple of the big issues with 'Greens' - as part of their 'green' credentials, they spin down when not being accessed after only a short delay, a few seconds, to reduce power. Fine in a desktop when you are just surfing. But in a non-desktop environment such as a NAS, that ramps up quickly the head 'load cycle count', where spin-up is the most stressful thing you can do to a disc. Head up towards the 300k mark, which you can do quite quickly in the right environment, and you are near where the mechanics are worn out. So an early life failure.
Next - using then in a RAID array can be problematic. The so-called TLER problem where if the drive suffers a read error, it takes so long re-trying and fixing (re-allocated sectors etc) that the RAID controller thinks it's gone away and the RAID array drops to a degraded state. The 'RAID compatible' drives handle errors in a RAID-controller friendly way. And it's apparently mostly down to how the firmware is designed.
 

CoreyX64

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WD spec sheets seem to indicate the same thing. IntelliPower is what people hate on the green drives so much about. Because it varies between 5400(5200?)-5900. Still, purples are reliable drives. No, it's not a deal breaker. I have greens and purples and all work well.


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nayr

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my 4TB purple been cooking along perfectly w/out error for 454 days of runtime so far, only power cycled 8 times in its life.. recording 4x1080p streams at 15-20FPS

Code:
# smartctl -A /dev/sda
smartctl 6.4 2014-10-07 r4002 [armv7l-linux-3.14.14-cubox-i] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-14, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org


=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0027   208   192   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       6600
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       9
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   086   086   000    Old_age   Always       -       10915
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       8
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       7
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       189
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   108   108   000    Old_age   Always       -       44
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
 

blake

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I run 2TB purple hard drives in all my equipment.
 

ilikebike

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Just a couple things to clear up coming from a WD employee.

HGST is short for Hitachi a Global Storage Technologies. Hitachi is a decent brand to buy as well. I've had fairly good luck with them with regular computers (never put one in an NVR). However WD bought them out a few years ago, so if you see a drive branded as Hitachi, it's truly a hitachi drive. If it says HGST, it's Western Digital. While I haven't had an HGST drive come back to me dead YET, so far so good.
The WD/Hitachi merger was on hold fora few years due to China regulations and it wasn't until a few months ago that both companies got the go-ahead to begin the merger process. Hitachi has and still makes all their own drives (and will probably make the majority of the new WD/HGST company drives) so there is no "mixing" of manufacturers just yet. Anything labeled Hitachi or HGST was made in an HGST factory with HGST firmware, not WD.

A useful perspective on the standard choices we face for HDDs.
Bang! But just to add a little bit. Not disagreeing.
A couple of the big issues with 'Greens' - as part of their 'green' credentials, they spin down when not being accessed after only a short delay, a few seconds, to reduce power. Fine in a desktop when you are just surfing. But in a non-desktop environment such as a NAS, that ramps up quickly the head 'load cycle count', where spin-up is the most stressful thing you can do to a disc. Head up towards the 300k mark, which you can do quite quickly in the right environment, and you are near where the mechanics are worn out. So an early life failure.
Next - using then in a RAID array can be problematic. The so-called TLER problem where if the drive suffers a read error, it takes so long re-trying and fixing (re-allocated sectors etc) that the RAID controller thinks it's gone away and the RAID array drops to a degraded state. The 'RAID compatible' drives handle errors in a RAID-controller friendly way. And it's apparently mostly down to how the firmware is designed.

WD has removed green drives from their lineup completely, so it's a moot point. There are only Blue, Black, Red and Purple drives now.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=780#Tab2
 

nayr

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thanks for stopping by and clarifying, I have a long time friend who recently started at WD in Boulder, and he told me all the same things you did but its nice to get the facts direct from the source..

I hear the HGST merger been a very long and painful process.. Ive been very fond of my HGST drives recently, hope you guys dont mess em all up :p
 

CoreyX64

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Very interesting info. I've always had good luck with Hitachi drives and HGST as well so good to hear they're still making them. The Samsung/Seagate merger though, I know for a fact is the case because of the higher failure rate and the fact that they bear a Seagate model number and warranty. That and I did have one Samsung drive hiccup, and was directed to Seagate to file a claim. This was years ago though.

I'm curious as to why they dumped greens?


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JMartin

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I'm running 12 WD 3TB Reds (6 mirrored to 6 redundant) in my Plex Media Server, which is now doubling as my Blue Iris Server.
I keep them all spinning 24/7, never had a glitch.
I do think however that I'll slip a 3TB Purple in there just for the Camera stuff.

Redundant Drives.jpg
 

CoreyX64

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I was told that Purples were rebranded reds with different firmware to better handle continuous I/O, but I would like to hear input from the WD expert on that. Both are equally reliable drives so my view on them doesn't change.


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JMartin

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Some feedback from my friends on the Plex Forum:

WD Purple is optimised for continuous WRITES and not READS, (ie security camera's)...

And further, from WD website:

  • Engineered specifically for surveillance security systems.
  • Reduced video frame loss.
  • Tuned for write-intensive, low bit-rate, high stream-count applications typical to most surveillance applications.
  • Prioritized write-operations for maximized surveillance performance.
  • TLER & ATA streaming support.
  • Support for up to eight drives.
 

alastairstevenson

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I'm running 12 WD 3TB Reds (6 mirrored to 6 redundant) in my Plex Media Server, which is now doubling as my Blue Iris Server.
Strictly speaking - and maybe our WD member can confirm -
For general info - I suspect your image will likely behave as 2 enclosures.

Depending on the firmware version, the WD Red HDDs have a limit on how many you should place in a single enclosure.
They started at max 5, now at max 8.

The reason for the limit is due to the way that that sympathetic vibrations can build when multiple spindles are running at the same speed in the same enclosure.
This can adversely affect head positioning accuracy and give data errors.
The firmware is designed to recognise when this happens and specifically deal with it.
I'm guessing they have tuned up the firmware some more since the initial release and have been able to raise the limit to 8.
 

CoreyX64

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I am guessing NAS drives are the opposite, read optimization over write? Generally I don't buy into product descriptions because it's more marketing than engineering, I need to know why/how or some sort of truth behind it, in order for me to justify the added expense. Seagate drives are marketed as long lasting as reliable (that's a broken record in every industry so it means nothing to me) and yet I replace more Seagate drives than any other brand.

Purples however, I've been very impressed with. Description aside, I know that they just work.


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