Hello. Long time lurker ready to take the plunge.

[Amigo-]

Hello everyone, I have tried to come up with a plan for proper camera selection and set up more times than I can count, but I never end up getting anywhere lol. I find myself overwhelmed with information and given the scarcity of quality products and current prices, I want to make sure I’m making the best decisions for my goals, but also staying realistic.

I will include a few basic pictures from IPVM which will show what camera areas I am trying to monitor. This is some thing I will likely purchase bits and pieces at a time as money becomes available. I realize none of what I am asking will be cheap. I have no particular brand affiliation and just simply want as best as I can afford. My property is well lit, and I am very comfortable with running additional electrical (for lighting/IR lighting) and networking cable if I need to make any additions. Excellent quality night vision is an absolute must on all cameras.

In the first picture the camera distance on the left and right of the house cover about 30 feet. On the left side there is less light and there is a man door that goes to the attached garage. On the right there is also less light and I have a robotic mower that would be in view of the camera. I am aiming for recognition if possible. Camera height would be about 10 feet but I can mount any height up to about 20 feet. Whatever you guys and gals think best.

The camera on the front is going to be pointed from the front entrance door and only needs recognition to about 15 feet.

For the last camera in picture one, I am looking for something as wide angle as possible to just get a broad overall detection of the whole front of the house. Obviously I know this will hinder recognition but that is perfectly OK for this camera.

In the second photo the two cameras on the left cover the garage door and driveway. We normally have three cars parked in the driveway, one on the left side of the driveway close to the garage door, and two on the right. If I need to move any of these locations for cameras that is perfectly OK. I’d like one to be able to cover straight down the driveway if possible but also catch the car on the left as much as possible. The other garage camera I want to catch the cars on the right.

Lastly, I want to look into a camera dedicated for license plate recognition. I have no idea where the best place to mount such a camera would be. I put it off to the right just to have it on the screen. I can mount it anywhere on the house including the second floor but I’m not sure what angle is preferred. I also have a pole on the right hand side that I can mount it which would give a better angle, But I am trying to stay away from that because there is no easy way for me to run a cable to that location.

The last picture is just a general satellite overview so you get a better idea of the location of the property and any possible obstructions like trees you may notice.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. I tried to provide as much detail as possible. I don’t have a particular budget cap in mind, and I realize some cameras may be more expensive than others. If possible I’d like to stay near $200-300 per camera, but if you recommend a camera that fits my needs that is cheaper that would be excellent.

Thank you in advance for your time and sorry for the long read LOL.

Note: this message was compiled via voice to text, so I apologize ahead of time if I missed and spelling/grammatical errors when reading it over.

 

[SouthernYankee]

The standard reply.

You are trying to do to much with too few cameras.
Get one good quality variable focus camera and test each of your location. Test of 24 hours, test at night with motion. Test with a "Bad guy" wearing a hoodie at night, can you ID them for the cops and will it stand up in court ?

IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight.

Read up on DORI distance.

IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes

Information in this section was contributed by [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/mat200.29441/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@matt200[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/giomania.36271/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@giomania [/COLOR][/URL] [/LIST] Any dedicated manufacturer NVR should match...

ipcamtalk.com

================================
for my house
1) the front door needs three cameras, one doorbell camera, one pointing at the package drop area, one pointing back to the front door.
2) the garage entrance Needs two cameras pointing out mounted no higher than the top of the garage door.
3) the inside of the garage need two cameras one point at the garage door and one point at the house entrance
4) each entrance to the house must be covered by a camera.
5) each camera must be covered by another camera, If i can destroy a camera it must be covered, recorded by another camera.
6) in my house all public areas inside are covered, kitchen, living room, dining room, halls, game room, den
7) all outside doors are covered by a camera inside, pointing out.

 

[Old Timer]

Spend time reading the Wiki and go over the options of what cameras, etc.
Plan on getting a camera and use a temp pole and base to check the position, zoom, lighting, etc.
For license plates check out this area. It will have to be a dedicated camera, it only does LPR

LPR

Licence Plate Reader cameras

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

My standard welcome!

Welcome!

Here are a few guidelines and considerations as you piece something together.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.

You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...

Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

 

[Amigo-]

The standard reply.

You are trying to do to much with too few cameras.
Get one good quality variable focus camera and test each of your location. Test of 24 hours, test at night with motion. Test with a "Bad guy" wearing a hoodie at night, can you ID them for the cops and will it stand up in court ?

IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight.

Read up on DORI distance.

IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes

Information in this section was contributed by [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/mat200.29441/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@matt200[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/giomania.36271/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@giomania [/COLOR][/URL] [/LIST] Any dedicated manufacturer NVR should match...

ipcamtalk.com

================================
for my house
1) the front door needs three cameras, one doorbell camera, one pointing at the package drop area, one pointing back to the front door.
2) the garage entrance Needs two cameras pointing out mounted no higher than the top of the garage door.
3) the inside of the garage need two cameras one point at the garage door and one point at the house entrance
4) each entrance to the house must be covered by a camera.
5) each camera must be covered by another camera, If i can destroy a camera it must be covered, recorded by another camera.
6) in my house all public areas inside are covered, kitchen, living room, dining room, halls, game room, den
7) all outside doors are covered by a camera inside, pointing out.

By all means, if I need more cameras, then so be it. I want to do it right (well as best as possible lol) so however many cameras I need, I’ll do that. I just made the reference pictures for ease of visualization and to help explain my more crucial points.

 

[Amigo-]

Spend time reading the Wiki and go over the options of what cameras, etc.
Plan on getting a camera and use a temp pole and base to check the position, zoom, lighting, etc.
For license plates check out this area. It will have to be a dedicated camera, it only does LPR

LPR

Licence Plate Reader cameras

ipcamtalk.com

Awesome thank you! What do you recommend as using for a temporary pole?

 

[Amigo-]

My standard welcome!

Welcome!

Here are a few guidelines and considerations as you piece something together.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

I'd recommend you consider a Blue Iris/computer combo as an NVR. Keep in mind an NVR is simply a stripped down computer after all... And this would allow you the flexibility to mix camera brands.

You don't need to buy components and build one, or buy a new computer either.

When I was looking at replacing an existing NVR, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR.

Many of us buy refurbished computers that are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so. A real NVR will cost more than that.

A member here a couple months ago found a refurbished 4th generation for less than $150USD that came with Win10 PRO, 16GB RAM, and a 1TB drive. You won't find a capable NVR cheaper than that...

Blue Iris has a demo, so try it out on an existing computer and see if you like it.

There is a big Blue Iris or NVR debate here LOL. Some people love Blue Iris and think NVRs are clunky and hard to use and others think Blue Iris is clunky and hard to use. I have done both and prefer Blue Iris. As with everything YMMV...

And you can disable Windows updates and set up the computer to automatically restart in a power failure, and then you have a more powerful NVR with a nice mobile viewing interface.

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either. But we would recommend staying away from those brands even if you go the NVR route with one of those brands...

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

View attachment 100363

Wow thank you for all this info! I’ll scan through it a few times for sure

 

[Old Timer]

I used a set of these, just because I had them.

https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Speaker-Loudspeaker-Adjustable-Stability/dp/B08TJ199JS/

You could use 2x4 and a bucket full of sand/rock just as well

 

[samplenhold]

Awesome thank you! What do you recommend as using for a temporary pole?

I use the below:

 

[Flintstone61]

If nothing else, you can make your obvious cable runs, the ones you know you need. but think about pulling from 2 boxes and giving yourself the option to have 2 devices/camera's at the corners and porches, then pull enough extra so you can hookup to your test cam bucket....tripod whatever.

 

[Holbs]

Is is possible to installed a lamp post out near the street/sidewalk? That would REALLY help to catch facial ID, plates, and get great coverage left & right of folks coming at your house.

 

[mat200]

Is is possible to installed a lamp post out near the street/sidewalk? That would REALLY help to catch facial ID, plates, and get great coverage left & right of folks coming at your house.

Hi holbs, typically not legal to do so .. depends on ownership of the lamp post

 

[Holbs]

Hi holbs, typically not legal to do so .. depends on ownership of the lamp post

what do you mean...not legal to do so? If he puts in on his property at the end of the driveway (where driveway meets sidewalk on his grass)...
Well, I did such a scenario with my lamp post on my land. I hope no lawyer comes around and tries to give me any beef about legalities
** GRANTED ** I did get permission from HOA to put it there as it's a noticeable addition to the front of the house. Even bought the 4x4 covering to make it have that sexy 'oooo..i want one too' look

 

[wittaj]

I think he thought you meant a street lamp post or utility pole that is not yours?

 

[Holbs]

I think he thought you meant a street lamp post or utility pole that is not yours?

You mean I can't put a 5,000,000 lumen 30' light post in my front yard?
I get it...ya... this lamp post that I did is just a treated 4x4 with Home Depot $100 dressing, and it only run 24vdc (not 110vac). A simple DIY project. Add to the fact, I ran 4 Cat6 cables to it: Bosch Tritech pet immunity motion detector, 5442 6mm camera, future LPR, and future dunno cable.

 

[wittaj]

Your lamp post on your property = good ok to put a camera on.

Utility pole in right of way not owned by you = take your chances lol.

 

[mat200]

I think he thought you meant a street lamp post or utility pole that is not yours?

what do you mean...not legal to do so? ..

"what do you mean...not legal to do so? .. " - Holbs
"I think he thought you meant a street lamp post or utility pole that is not yours?" - Wittai

Yes, exactly .. ownership of the lamppost.

 

[Holbs]

"what do you mean...not legal to do so? .. " - Holbs
"I think he thought you meant a street lamp post or utility pole that is not yours?" - Wittai

Yes, exactly .. ownership of the lamppost.

Hmm... actually a good point. The sidewalks infront of houses...they are property of city/county or home owner? I know home owners have to shovel the things. In such a situation, I could see right of way being an issue. I do not have that situation, myself.

 

[samplenhold]

"what do you mean...not legal to do so? .. " - Holbs
"I think he thought you meant a street lamp post or utility pole that is not yours?" - Wittai

Yes, exactly .. ownership of the lamppost.

It depends on the area and if you get permission. I remember a post here several months ago where someone was asking about which cam to use on a utility pole. Might have been a PTZ question? He even posted a picture of the yard and pole. He stated that he had contacted the utility company and received written permission to do so. I want to say it was somewhere in the EU, but I could be wrong about that.