Help with a 8 camera system.

Nibbler

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The more I try to read about different cameras, the more confused I get :)
I want to have cameras covering as much as possible of this space:

övervakning mått+kamera.jpg

I have placed the red triangles where I think it would be smart to place cameras, could be wrong! So please feel free to recommend other places.

Camera placement will be around 4 m / 13 ft up.

I want to run them with POE cables.
I want an NVR

What are your recommendations for me, and what should I look at if my budget is $2000
 

sebastiantombs

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:welcome:

Honestly, you're trying to cover too much area with too few cameras. Have a look in the Wiki, in the blue bar at the top of the page, on a real computer and start reading. Yes, there are a lot of different camera types out there, but first you need to know what you don't know about video surveillance. Your placement is good but the views would be improved if the cameras face each other so they can "watch" each other, or at least see the approaches to each other. Wide fields of view are nice if you only want overview, but if you want to be able to actually identify someone the views need to be much less broad. My house is basically a rectangle and I have eleven cameras just to cover the immediate area around the house and approaches to the entry doors.

You can build a good system up over time, rather than going all in right out of the gate. That allows you to improve coverage and camera selection as you become familiar with what these cameras are capable of. Start with a single, good, varifocal camera and use a test rig, as described in the Cliff Notes in the Wiki, to test each location you think a camera will be mounted. Test both day and night, with motion at night. Have someone walk around wearing a hoodie or ballcap to see if you can actually identify them and not just by knowing who it is ahead of time. The general recommendation is not to mount cameras higher than two meters unless you just want shots of the top of heads. Of course, ask questions here as you test things out. Fixed lens sizes, focal lengths, can be calculated from a guide that's also in the Wiki.
 

TVille

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Welcome to IPCT!

@sebastiantombs is right. And each site is different. What works for my place won't works so well for yours, and your preferences. The recommendation is to get a single varifocus camera, a temporary mount, 2x4 tee stuck in a bucket of rocks, and try it out. You can see it on any PC.
 

wittaj

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It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that is popular in 8-kit NVR camera systems, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

1604638118196.png



My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

Keep in mind that these type of cameras and NVRs, although are spec'd and capable of these various parameters, real world testing by many of us shows if you try to run these units at higher FPS and higher bitrates than needed that you will max out the CPU in the unit and then it bugs out just long enough that you miss something or video is choppy. My car is rated for 6,000RPM redline, but I am not gonna run it in 3rd gear on the highway at 6,000RPM...same with these types of units - gotta keep them under rated capacity. Some may do better than others, but trying to use the rated "spec" of every option available is usually not going to work well, either with a car or a camera or NVR.

I have a cheapo camera I use for overview purposes, but one of the cool things that camera has though in the gui is it shows the CPU usage. If I max out the FPS, bitrate, use it's motion detection and set it to middle sensitivity, the CPU maxes out 100% quite often. If I run it at 15 FPS with an appropriate bitrate and motion detection at a reasonable level, the CPU sits around 40%. I suspect even the more expensive cameras function close to this.

Wifi - forget about it. Wifi is problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to use it through a wifi router. And then you are far enough away that you would not have full signal, and it will slow your whole system down. A member here tested wifi cameras and after 4 cameras, the system became unstable.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes. Now do the same with a wifi camera and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues.

These types of cameras are not GoPro or Hollywood type cameras that offer slow-mo capabilities and other features. They "offer" 30FPS and 60FPS to appease the general public that thinks that is what they need, but you will not find many of us here running more than 15 FPS; and movies are shot at 24 FPS, so anything above that is a waste of storage space for what these cameras are used for. If 24 FPS works for the big screen, I think 15 FPS is more than enough for phones and tablets LOL.
 

Rob2020

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Don't rule out placing cameras away from the house, like in a faux bird house, on a fence, in a tree and pointing towards the house. You can run burial rated cable, this will open up possibilities you may have not considered.
 

Nibbler

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Thanks for the replies!

Yes, probably to large area to cover with 8 cameras. I know I will not get a bulletproof solution with this.
I guess you can call it something like a reasonably good solution, that is just as much to let people know that I have a bunch of cameras, as it is to make sure every square m is covered with perfect image. A big part of it is because I think it’s fun, rather then that I need it

So, perhaps i will start with 8 cameras set up something like this. Because I have very easy to attach cameras along the roof, and there is already so that cable can to through the wall and then I can just go with cable along the roof edge.

But I will definitely get a 16ch NVR instead of 8 to be able to add cameras later. Also the suggestion to place cameras a bit away from the house and set up towards the house was great. If this wasn’t much more work, I would do that straight away.

So, now I just have figure out what to get :confused:
 
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