Hi There

[Yesitsme]

Hi all

my plan is to put up 4 outdoor cameras and 2 indoor, I got 4 4k Amcrest and 2 5mp Amcrest cameras, I bought by Amcrest because I didn't want to buy Chinese cameras that talk back to china, I only learned after the fact that most if not all cameras come from china with different branding.

I still need to buy a PC for blue Iris, I read that you can get a cheap used PC for ~200 that would work great with BI, I'm confused which PC to buy, is there a reason to keep away from SFF or micro towers? does it need to be a dedicated PC or it can be a general use PC that also has BI on it?

in the picture below you can see the lights have a terrible reflection, what setting would make it look better

I read that the lower MP is better for night vision, does that refer to the camera specs or recording settings, which means if you set a 4k camera to record on a lower res would you get the same result as a 4mp camera?

another reason i went to amcrest is i read that dahua cameras is very expensive when bought directly or very cheap when bought on aliexpress bought those cheap ones don't have a warranty and they cant be upgraded and they don't work with north American variant, after reading up over here there seams to be someone Andy that sells cameras from dahua reasonably priced,
question is how does andy's cameras compare with the rest of the sellers on ali or amcrest, is he a reputable seller that backs his products and is it upgradable with North American Variant and what about a warranty?

thank you all for your time.

 

[Steve.L]

Those are Chinese too, yeah? Do you mean because ShenZhen has never been implicated in backdoor scandals?

 

[Yesitsme]

Those are Chinese too, yeah?

I gave up on china, everything is from china

 

[Mike A.]

I gave up on china, everything is from china

Well, not everything but most that are more affordable are.

SFF are OK. Generally, you want room and connectors for at least two internal drives - SSD/NVMe for OS and BI, surveillance-rated drive for video storage. Micros in most cases aren't great since no room for larger drives and most run lower-powered mobile processors. Better to have a dedicated machine.

For lights you can try setting the exposure faster, look for HLC (maybe under BLC on the Amcrest) and play with that to try to compensate for bright areas, play with brightness/contrast.

No, lowering the resolution won't help any. How well it performs in low light is dependent on the sensor design and size. That won't change. Still using the same sensor/image processing.

@EMPIRETECANDY is a reputable seller who goes over and above to support customers. Cameras are upgradeable. Warranty I believe is 2 years (?). I've never had to use it so can't speak to how that works.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Based on your budget, Your place has good light, So can use some higher resolutions cam, but 4k has bit high requirement for your computer.
If budget is limited, can check IPC-T5442TM-AS, IPC-T5442T-ZE, these 2 are the best ones we are selling now.
Or use some cheap IPC-T2431T-AS, this one can work well too, price is cheap.

4K IPC-Color4K-X, best full color camera.
Refer them to this link. All cams we sold with 2 years warranty.

Amazon.com

 

[wittaj]

Do you know now that Dahua makes the Amcrest cameras LOL. And they are usually stripped down versions of Dahua cams with lower quality builds and sensors.

Andy @EMPIRETECANDY is a member here that sells Dahua and Hikvision OEM cameras and NVR via his Amazon and AliExpress store, or you can DM him and purchase directly.

Andy's cameras are Dahua and Hikvision OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon and AliExpress store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

As long you you by from the vendor EmpireTech or Loryta on Amazon (or AliExpress), they are Andy cams and Dahua or Hikvision OEM.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua and Hikvision authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from an authorized dealer. You select the country at camera initialization.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua and Hikvision website, thus proving they are real Dahua and Hikvision. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provided that to Andy for sale before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...

You do have to be careful with some rebranded cameras purchased from other vendors as they are cameras that are for the Chinese region but have been hacked into English but then are not able to be updated or they will brick. Buying from a reputable source is key to make sure that doesn't happen.

In the US, an official Dahua unit can cost 2 to 5 times or more than what we can purchase them for from Andy @EMPIRETECANDY here because the official US distributors want you to go through their professional installers or want you to buy in quantity, so we pay a premium markup. Neither of which most of us here want to do. Maybe some pockets of the US folks can get a good deal from an authorized Dahua dealer in the US, but most of us don't.

In addition, the "American variant" Dahua cameras as you call them are usually inferior to the the international Dahua Cameras that Andy sells. The model lines by Dahua USA are mostly high priced cameras on the wrong MP/sensor ratio.

Further, any issues would have to go through the distributor and Dahua US will not talk to us. And for the few cameras we would be purchasing from a distributor, I doubt the customer service would be very good.

Warranty & RMA

us.dahuasecurity.com

How many people here in the US are saying they are getting great deals on Dahua cameras purchasing from authorized Dahua US dealers here?

How many with official US Dahua cameras are running firmware more recent than what Andy gets for us?

In my experience with electronics, they poop out immediately or within a year. Andy's warranty takes care of that and he showed it with a recent member here that was beyond the warranty period and sent back a camera and Andy sent him a new one not some refurbished unit. Any other product I have ever sent in on warranty, the replacement is a used product. Not with Andy - he sends a brand new unit.

In a rare instance a camera poops out after two years, the initial savings I have from purchasing from Andy can buy me a newer camera and I still come out ahead...

The few times I have had a longer warranty on an electronic, it was a painful process and long and drawn out and then they send you a clearly refurbished product. For warranty, I want either my unit fixed or a brand new unit and not someone elses that broke and they fixed.

Warranty and pricing go hand-in-hand. If I can get a 5 year warranty on anything, but it cost me 5 times as much to purchase that product than it does to go with an OEM that is 1/5 the cost, I will take my chances. If I get 3 years out of it, I am still better off. If I get 5 years, even better. Only after purchasing the 6th item in 5 years do I lose in that scenario.

Your best bet is to buy from Andy here on his Amazon store or directly from him.

 

[wittaj]

Downrezing a camera does not work - the camera doesn't change the "pixel resolution screen" on the camera when you go from 4MP to 2MP. The sensor still needs 2 times the light going from 4MP to 2MP, so the native 2MP camera will result in a better image at night. The firmware will make some attempt at downrezing it, but it could be a complete crap image or a usable image, but if there is a concern that the 4MP isn't performing or wouldn't perform well at night, then it is better to go with the 2MP.

I have a 4MP and 2MP on the same 1/2.8" sensor and the picture quality is quite different between the two and the 2MP kicks it's butt at night.

In most instances, you want to get a camera that will perform at your location for the worse situation, which for most of us is at night when it is dark and there is little to no light. If a camera performs at night, it is easier to tweak settings to make it work during the day than it is the other way around.

My 2MP cameras outperform my neighbors 4K (8MP) cameras....why....because they are both on the same size sensor.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system but mine. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 8MP system provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night.

My neighbor tried the "I will just downrez the 8MP to 2MP" and the image was a soft dark mess.

His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from Andy here based on my recommendation and seeing my results. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras and he cannot figure out why downrezing from 8MP to 2MP doesn't work properly... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location and downrezing doesn't change the physics of the camera.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything other than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything other than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

 

[wittaj]

It appears you are running your camera on default/auto settings. That will never result in the video quality of motion that we want at night.

And unless you are wanting to capture the sky, point the camera down so you do not have so much sky in the view.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start. This should make it more crisp.

I think you should also take off manual IR - your camera is low so you are getting a lot of IR bounce off the ground that is degrading the picture.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.

 

[IAmATeaf]

In that screenshot what exactly are you watching ? Looks to me to be a strange angle/view that the cam is set to.

 

[samplenhold]

Everything that those above said. And welcome to IPCAMTALK.

Read the Cliff Notes and the WIKI.

The example pic you posted is not a realistic surveillance view. Who cares if those street lights have a glow. No faces will be near enough to cast a problem on them. For an overview cam like that one, point it down more towards the street, unless you are trying to get incoming planes to ID.

As far as a BI PC, as others have stated, the BI PC should be dedicated to just BI. Record the cams 24/7 to WD Purple drives or equivalent. Make sure that the case is big enough to house the drives. Too small a case and you will have cooling issues. You will be hard pressed to find a BI PC for $200 in 2022. Realize that was pre-shortage prices and did not include drives.

 

[mat200]

Hi all
..

I read that the lower MP is better for night vision, does that refer to the camera specs or recording settings, which means if you set a 4k camera to record on a lower res would you get the same result as a 4mp camera?

..

Welcome @Yesitsme

"I read that the lower MP is better for night vision, does that refer to the camera specs or recording settings, which means if you set a 4k camera to record on a lower res would you get the same result as a 4mp camera?"

It's a bit more nuanced .. sensor generation, sensor size ( pixel size ), lens, and DSP chips and firmware all play a part here.

In general for better low light results look for a larger sensor size ..

Try to avoid lower sensor sizes and smaller sized pixels cameras if you need quality low light image capture.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Cameras from Andy are authentic, full featured, Dahua and Hikvision cameras with International firmware that can be upgraded easily when necessary, In fact Andy works with some of the true experts here on IPCT to improve the firmware of newly released cameras, gets versions specifically written to address the problems they find and supplies it to us far ahead of Dahua publishing those improvements in their own firmware update site. Keep in mind that Amrest is Dahua downgraded, less expensive sensors and features removed from firmware to lower their cost. A good 2MP camera from Andy can be had for about $130USD and a good 4MP camera for about $170USD. He stands behind what he sells and is very responsive to problems that may crop up. The biggest caveat is his time zone sometime makes replies seem a little late.