HikVision and Powerline Adapter help please! (And Synology)

[karansaraf]

I'm looking at the HikVision 4MP Turret cam with separate lens and IR illuminator for the front and back of my house. It's going to be really difficult to wire them both directly to the place where the router is, or indeed wire them both to a single location as the configuration of the house would make running wires quite time consuming, costly and difficult (not to mention unsightly).

Is it possible to run these HikVision cameras by using Powerline Adapters to connect them to my network? I know they are POE, and the Powerline adapters I have don't support this, so would require me to buy a separate 12V cable (I think) to connect to power also.

I then want to use my existing 9TB Synology NAS drive to store the data and run Surveillance Station. Would these two or three cameras connected to my network via Powerline be detected by the Synology NAS (which is directly wired to my router)? Or would they need to be directly connected to the NAS?

Many thanks for your help.

 

[PSPCommOp]

Whats the bandwidth on those adapters? Some use them with no problem, others have problems so its a mixed bag.

Also, Synology NAS drives require you to buy licenses per camera and the numbers I've seen can be expensive. Have you looked into that? Just something to be aware of if you haven't.

One last piece of advice, stick with 4mm lenses or higher, I have multiple HikVis 2342's and the 2.8 lenses don't give very good picture compared to the 4mm and 6mm. I don't use them to cover entry/exits anymore, instead they are "what are my dogs doing in the yard" cameras.

 

[karansaraf]

I think they're 600Mbps.

My NAS comes with 2 licenses already. I would have to pay for one or two more, which would cost about £100, which is not too bad (I assume these are one time fees, not subscription!?), especially given that I won't have to shell out for a DVR/NVR which would cost a lot more. My NAS also has a hell of a lot more space available for recording.

And thanks, I was wondering whether to get a 2.8 for the front drive to get a wider angle, but if they're not very good, I'll just get a 4mm (or may need two of them to get the whole drive).

 

[fenderman]

Hire someone to run the cables in the wall...you'll regret the power line..you don't need to run it back to the router..run them to a switch then a single cable back to any network connection in the house...

 

[PSPCommOp]

I think they're 600Mbps.

My NAS comes with 2 licenses already. I would have to pay for one or two more, which would cost about £100, which is not too bad (I assume these are one time fees, not subscription!?), especially given that I won't have to shell out for a DVR/NVR which would cost a lot more. My NAS also has a hell of a lot more space available for recording.

And thanks, I was wondering whether to get a 2.8 for the front drive to get a wider angle, but if they're not very good, I'll just get a 4mm (or may need two of them to get the whole drive).

Yeah its a one time thing for the licenses, not a subscription. But the NAS aren't known for the processing power, that's why a lot of recommendation go to newer i5 or i7 processors. Just something to consider in case you run into some problems.

I don't have experience with the Powerline so i'm not gonna say if that bandwidth is good or bad, I just thought it would be better if others who use them see what the numbers are so hopefully they can answer for u.

And i'm hoping to post a thread with comparative pictures for 2.8, 4 and 6mm lenses sometime later this week. I'll be mounting new brackets and since I have one 6mm, two 2.8's and three 4mm's, i'm gonna hook them all up once I have the mount installed and provided some comparison photos. Keep an eye open if you're looking for comparisons.

 

[aster1x]

Hire someone to run the cables in the wall...you'll regret the power line..you don't need to run it back to the router..run them to a switch then a single cable back to any network connection in the house...

@fenderman. Can you please explain why you are not recommending power line adaptors? Is there a technical reason? Practically any camera requires max 10Mbps which is much less of any power line adaptor bandwidth capability and they should work. Any other reason?

 

[rotorwash]

@fenderman. Can you please explain why you are not recommending power line adaptors? Is there a technical reason? Practically any camera requires max 10Mbps which is much less of any power line adaptor bandwidth capability and they should work. Any other reason?

My experience with powerline adapters isn't great. I was not using them for IP cameras, just getting a wifi hotspot to a part of the house that didn't have ethernet wiring. My issue was that I was constantly having intermittent issues with them passing traffic, and they needed to be "rebooted" often. I tried different configurations like plugging them into different outlets, etc, but it didn't really help. I read online that depending on how your house is wired, you may have mixed results. It had something to do with the legs in the breaker box. I'm sure everyone has different experiences, but I found a way to not use them. On a side note, I have directv and have discovered these great devices called a DECA. It passes IP over coax. DECA is a directv model compatible with their frequencies. If you don't have directv, MOCA is compatible with standard cable frequencies. The MOCA adapters are a bit more pricey than DECA. For example, these DECA devices on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/DIRECTV-Broadband-DECA-Ethernet-Adapter/dp/B00ZDUQVFU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1473683131&sr=8-2&keywords=deca) are less than $15 for a pair. You put one device close to the router or switch to feed the system, and one or more devices at the endpoints. If you have standard cable and can isolate a coax run from the rest of the coax network, you can use the deca adapters and save $$ as they are less expensive. You can't mix DECA frequencies though with a standard cable installation. If you need to do that, use a MOCA adapter instead (https://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Bonded-Ethernet-Adapter-ECB6200K02/dp/B013J7O3X0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1473683560&sr=1-1&keywords=moca). I believe the DECA maxes out at 100mb, and I believe MOCA 2.0 is 1.2gb. Big difference, but for a camera, it's plenty.

Personally, I would look to use some type of ethernet-over-coax solution before a powerline solution. I totally understand if you don't have coax run to the location mentioned, but I think it's worth mentioning deca and moca adapters on a powerline thread. With either powerline or ethernet-over-cable, you will either need a POE injector or a 12v power source. If you go POE injector, you only need to worry about one wire to the camera.

 

[plomaris]

I have 10 Hikvision cameras, all running at 2MP, 4096 bps and most via Powerline. Some of the Powerline adapters have POE built in (repurposed Logitech Alert camera adapters) and others use normal Powerline adapters (Logitech HD 200) with power injectors or POE switches (4 cameras on one Pwerline adapter). So far I haven't had any problems with them. Much more reliable than Wifi. I normally get around 100 Mbps over each adapter, which is more than enough bandwidth for the cameras.

I also have 1 of the cameras hooked up via MoCA with an injector. I've also had good results with that. The problem with MoCA is that you need a cable jack in the area, which are not as prevalent as power outlets.

 

[rotorwash]

The brand I was using in my post above was the TP-LINK TL-PA2010 adapter rated at 200Mbps.

 

[Del Boy]

I had the same issues as @rotorwash as many of you know.

I also upgraded to Denovo which are the "best" ones from expert and user reviews. And Got a 450Mbps link to my NVR. But I ended up with real-time stuttering. Clicked the Cat5e cable back in and all fine again. Just for a test I connected to a 10/100 switch and it was still fine. So just because it says 450Mbps doesn't mean it can do anything near there.

Another little test. Asus 802.11n computer to router (Cat5e router to NVR), 144Mbps link connection, stuttering. Asus 802.11ac 390Mbps link connection, no problem.

From my experience with cameras (I do have one in the shed on powerline but very low bandwidth and very thin cable), it's ok to run the odd camera but not your NVR. You will also need to get a PoE injector or 12V power adapter if you do this. Running a Cat5e cable is always preferable.

 

[karansaraf]

This is all really helpful information, guys, thanks a lot!

I do have multiple other powerline adapters, all 500-600Mbps and they all work without a flaw - they connect my router to my IPTV stream, my Amazon Fire TV, an Apple TV and my housemate uses his own powerline adapters (I don't know the bandwidth for those, but they are more than 6 years old) to run a second network via an access point connected to his powerline on the top floor of the house where the wi-fi can be spotty, and he can do everything he wants up there without issues, including streaming Netflix and streaming media from my NAS etc. It is a new house built less than a year ago with (I presume) good quality internal wiring.

So I do take on your points regarding fluctuating performance, though I haven't noticed performance fluctuating so far in my experience. All the powerline adapters flash "green" on status, which means >80Mbps, with the exception of one, which occasionally shows orange (48-80Mbps). I haven't noticed a dip in performance when streaming Netflix or streaming media from my NAS via PLEX using that adapter however.


That being said, I wouldn't want to install everything, and then risk fluctuating performance, and then have to start wiring stuff again to run CAT5E/6 cables. I'd want to do everything once and then hopefully leave it alone to work properly, so may have to rethink how I can make ethernet cables work. I'd have to run cables across skirting boards or something, so that the cables aren't conspicuous and show too easily, which would make my brand newly built house look unsightly.

@PSPCommOp - thanks, I'll look out for those pics, will be very helpful. I have the synology DS416, which has the Annapurna Labs Alpine AL-212 CPU dual core 1.4GHz, so perhaps not strong enough. I was also getting worried that it would cause permanent spinning of the HDDs and potentially wear them out, so perhaps getting an NVR is a better solution.

I think I'm probably going to settle on the two HikVision 4MP 4mm turrets, which are a reasonable price. I'll probably get a lower resolution IP cam for the main entrance of the house, and an indoor IP cam to view the main living area, which opens out onto the back exit.

What should I be looking out for with NVRs? Do they need to be the same make as the cameras? Can I get a system to work well if I have two HikVisions, and the other two cameras are different companies? Or should I try to just get all HikVision gear? I suspect this may be a lot more expensive? Any particular specs I need to look out for?

Also, how much space do these cameras take up?

Like the 4MP HV cameras above, how many MBs would be taken up per unit of time (1 minute, 10 minutes, 1 hour, whatever)?

 

[mando209]

@karansaraf which power line do u have and whic turret model are u talking about?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Del Boy]

All the powerline adapters flash "green" on status, which means >80Mbps, with the exception of one, which occasionally shows orange (48-80Mbps).

I think this is also 80Mbps half-duplex. You're not going to have any streaming issues 80Mbps on Netflix, which is why my word of warning is to divide any speeds by 10 to get the conservative real speed of these. I also recommend divide wifi speed by 2. Wired speed, well divide that by 1

I only have 10Mbps internet connection and Netflix is fine on that in HD.

 

[karansaraf]

@mando209

HikVision 2CD2342WD-I ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hikvision-Turrret-Camera-NETVIEW-DS-2CD2342WD-I/dp/B01AJ1TMOE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1473798577&sr=8-4&keywords=hikvision+turret+4mp )

I currently use these powerline adapters ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-PA411-500Mbps-Powerline-Adapter/dp/B0093UO3UQ/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&qid=1473798664&sr=8-34&keywords=tp+link+powerline )

But I think they're discontinued here, so can't buy any more. Would probably get something like these if I was going to go powerline, which I'm tempted not to now.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-PA4010KIT-V1-20-Powerline-Adapter/dp/B01BECPIMC/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1473798710&sr=8-20&keywords=tp+link+powerline

or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-PA7020-Powerline-Streaming-Configuration/dp/B01FFBN532/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1473798738&sr=8-21&keywords=tp+link+powerline



My fibre optic broadband speed is 39Mbps if wired to the router.

 

[jamesf]

I've been using 2 pairs of TPlink Powerline adapters for about 1 1/2 years with no issues. The initial setup was a little kludgey if I recall. I had to run back and forth a few times between the router and the units in my garage. But since then they have worked without issue. I didn't see a difference in testing directly connected to my POE NVR and through the adapters, then into the POE NVR. I plugged them directly into plugs no powerstrips.
I recommend trying them first if cabling is a hassle.

 

[Hotelone]

I've been successfully using a pair of Netgear Powerline 1200's with a Hik 4MP at 2688*1520 and 20 fps for about six months now. The "receiving" unit shows a red light implying a slow connection but it appears to still be more than enough bandwidth for the one cam.

 

[karansaraf]

@Hotelone and @jamesf

Thanks for your posts. What are your setups like? I was told by someone that in order to use an NVR that the cameras had to be directly connected to the NVR to have IP allocated before being connected to the router?

My setup if I used powerline would be:

1. Camera - ethernet to powerline with either POE injector or 12V power cable
2. Camera - ethernet to powerline with either POE injector or 12V power cable
3. optional third camera same as above
4. NVR directly ethernet cabled to router


Would that work?

 

[jamesf]

Yes that is generally correct.
I have mine generally setup in this manner:

Front of house:

• Camera powered with 12v adapter ---> Ethernet cable into Powerline adapter with 8' extension cord plugged into an electrical outlet
• ......AC wiring......

Inside Family Room

• Now next to the NVR in my family room I have an Electrical outlet that has the Powerline adapter mate plugged in --> ethernet cable to NVR POE port
• I have that setup twice (2 cameras). Both of the inside powerline adapters are in the same 4 plug wall outlet near my NVR, short 2 ethernet cables to the NVR

The NVR has a LAN port.. Connect THAT to your router for external access to your setup from the WWW.
Hope that helps.
*note it is not spelled out in your description, so I cant tell if you understand this, but you DO need 1 pair of Powerline adapters for each camera.
One at each end. You connect the camera into one - you connect its mate into the NVR.

 

[Hotelone]

HI karansaraf - Downstream my setup is Camera->Cat6->POE Injector->Cat6->PowerlineA->PowerlineB->Cat6->Hik NVR W/POE->Cat6->Router. Note that the Netgear 1200's have a pass-through power plug that I used to plug the POE injector into, made it easy. Also note that you need higher voltage injectors for this application. A very savvy member of this forum pointed this out to me when I was having some issues with some lower power ones. I went with these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BU3WB0I/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And it's been bombproof since. You'll only need one if you have a POE NVR. Set up your system FIRST and get it up and running BEFORE you set up the Powerline.

Vince

@Hotelone and @jamesf

Thanks for your posts. What are your setups like? I was told by someone that in order to use an NVR that the cameras had to be directly connected to the NVR to have IP allocated before being connected to the router?

My setup if I used powerline would be:

1. Camera - ethernet to powerline with either POE injector or 12V power cable
2. Camera - ethernet to powerline with either POE injector or 12V power cable
3. optional third camera same as above
4. NVR directly ethernet cabled to router


Would that work?

 

[karansaraf]

@jamesf

Why have you got a PAIR of powerlines for EACH camera?

Normally powerlines can be "paired" with any number of other powerlines, so for example, if you had four devices all connected to a powerline, then you would just need one powerline to go to the router (NOT four powerlines, one for each of the devices).

Are you saying it's different for the cameras and NVR? If that's the case, I'm going to be stuck, as I have multiple other powerline adapters in use and can't pair specific powerlines with each other, but not the rest of the powerlines in the system.

I would have thought you would have something like this:

Camera 1 > ethernet > powerline A (and power cable)
Camera 2 > ethernet > powerline B (and power cable)
Powerline C > NVR POE port
NVR LAN port > ethernet > router

Am I wrong? Your post implies I ALSO need a Powerline D going to the NVR as well (so A and C are paired, and B and D are paired - but I'm not sure its possible to pair individual pairs and not others), or have I misinterpreted?