Hikvison colorvu camera

[RonL]

My wife saw some youtube videos about the colorvu cameras by hikvision. She is pretty insistent that is what we should get. Are these the goto cameras ? My current system is not bad for 1080p during the day, but pretty grainy at night. I was thinking the 5mp with 2.8 lens. But that makes me upgrade the display tv too. Maybe should just stick with the 2mp 2.8 lens... opinions ? Or is a different camera better, no sure if I can afford to go to 8mp, and not even sure if those 3 extra mp are worth the trouble.

 

[wittaj]

They only work IF you have enough light or are willing to run with the white LEDs on all night. And most of those videos also slow the shutter way down to let in more light and make the static image look great, but motion is a blur then.

So if you are grainy now, these are not the right choice for you.

The full color type cameras are not magic and all cameras need light, either visible or infrared, and since full color cameras cannot see infrared, they are the wrong choice if you don't have enough visible light or refuse to run the cameras with the buil-in white LED.

No 5MP camera exists on an ideal MP/sensor ratio and will probably perform worse than what you have now.

We cannot comment on 2.8mm lens without knowing your intended use. Do you want to identify at 50 feet or 10 feet?

Many people say 4MP on the 1/1.8" sensor is the sweet spot.

See this thread as you consider upgrading your cams as it lists out the most commonly recommended cameras based on distance to identify:

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[RonL]

They only work IF you have enough light or are willing to run with the white LEDs on all night. And most of those videos also slow the shutter way down to let in more light and make the static image look great, but motion is a blur then.

So if you are grainy now, these are not the right choice for you.

The full color type cameras are not magic and all cameras need light, either visible or infrared, and since full color cameras cannot see infrared, they are the wrong choice if you don't have enough visible light or refuse to run the cameras with the buil-in white LED.

No 5MP camera exists on an ideal MP/sensor ratio and will probably perform worse than what you have now.

We cannot comment on 2.8mm lens without knowing your intended use. Do you want to identify at 50 feet or 10 feet?

Many people say 4MP on the 1/1.8" sensor is the sweet spot.

See this thread as you consider upgrading your cams as it lists out the most commonly recommended cameras based on distance to identify:

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

Thank you. I'll read through this.. I was going to add these specs of what I was looking at :
Min. Illumination
0.0005 Lux @ (F1.0, AGC ON), 0 Lux with white light
Shutter Time
PAL: 1/25 s to 1/50, 000 s NTSC: 1/30 s to 1/50, 000 s

 

[fenderman]

My wife saw some youtube videos about the colorvu cameras by hikvision. She is pretty insistent that is what we should get. Are these the goto cameras ? My current system is not bad for 1080p during the day, but pretty grainy at night. I was thinking the 5mp with 2.8 lens. But that makes me upgrade the display tv too. Maybe should just stick with the 2mp 2.8 lens... opinions ? Or is a different camera better, no sure if I can afford to go to 8mp, and not even sure if those 3 extra mp are worth the trouble.

The 4mp with the 1/1.8 sensor will be much better at night than your 1080p cameras. The 4k with the 1/1.2 sensors will be great at night as well. There are also some 4k with 1/1.8 sensor cams that perform exceptionally well at night too. Whatever you choose buy 1 camera first to test.

 

[wittaj]

Regarding minimum illumination, Many do not pay attention to the minimum illumination specs...because those are under ideal situations with so many factors not known.

Almost every camera will say 0 LUX with infrared or white LED on, and we all know how poorly Reolinks perform at night in low light yet that is their spec....or even two different good cameras. The 5442 4MP2.8mm fixed lens camera will beat the socks off the 5241 2MP 2.8mm fixed lens and they both say 0 Lux with IR on.

Once upon a time manufacturers would at least say at what shutter speed that rating was based on. Most would say a 1/3 shutter. That is way to slow for anything. You need to run minimum 1/60 shutter to start to minimize blur.

But now they don't even provide that, so in most cases it is a wide open iris, slowest shutter the camera allows, and gain and brightness cranked to 100 so that they can get the lowest illumination number possible.

But nobody would run the camera in that configuration.

Some of the older cameras would give these kind of specs so you knew how the camera was setup to come up with the minimum illumination.

0.002Lux/F1.5 ( Color,1/3s,30IRE)
0.020Lux/F1.5 ( Color,1/30s,30IRE)
0Lux/F1.5 (IR on)

So of course, the faster the shutter, the more light that is needed.

But as more competition came out, manufacturers started playing games and tweaking the settings for getting the lowest lux possible, but that came at a cost of a configuration nobody would use. So they wouldn't say how the camera was configured to capture that minimum illumination rating.

They play these marketing games to make it look like the camera is better than it is for someone that is just chasing minimum illumination numbers. Kind of like how we rarely get the miles per gallon a car is rated for.

It is a tool, but I would prefer to see the reviews here with settings provided and make an educated guess as to if my light is more or less than the reviewer.

 

[wittaj]

Now what is interesting is that many people have come here after buying the Hikvision ColorVu series expressing their disappointment in the picture quality of the camera because they were expecting magic. If you do not have ambient light outside or do not like the white LED lights on, you are better off with cameras that can see infrared. ColorVu type cameras cannot see infrared, so you can't add infrared later.

Here is link to a thread of many that shows the disappointment of many thinking a ColorVu camera was magic and could defy physics. Full Color type cameras are great if you have light, but will be horrible if you do not have enough light (as is any surveillance camera)

Initial review of the DS-2CD2347G2-L(U) ColorVu 2.0 IP camera.

There seems to be more posts started here with complaints about the Hik full color version at night than the Dahua 4K/X or 4K/T full color version. If you want a full color, the 4K/X is a better choice.

Or maybe the people that buy the Hikvision version are naive and think they are magic and the ones that buy the 4K/X and 4K/T are educated as to the proper placement for this type of camera LOL...

 

[Parley]

In the Hikvision lineup this is the camera I like. I have 8 of them. Excellent night specifications.
DS-2CD2087G2-L(U) - Pro Series (All) - Hikvision

If you need a varifocal, I like this one from Dahua. I have 6 of them.
New Arriving Cameras IPC-B5442E-Z4E 4MP WDR IR Bullet AI Network Camera free DHL shipping - AliExpress

 

[RonL]

You all are correct ! I am that noobe that is being fooled by the hype. I need to learn about where to even see the sensor numbers. Focal length seems to be listed. But here is what I have now... my 2mp 3.6f analog cameras. You can see daytime isn't bad, but night certainly is not good.

 

[RonL]

Better pic of my nighttime.

 

[wittaj]

So a 2.8 or 3.6mm camera (not even the ColorVu) at that location would still not IDENTIFY for most of that image. That is a good overview height and location.

Looking at that I would say it is not a good candidate for a 24/7 color camera. You would need to add external light.

Even though the camera has visible white LED, most here do not use them. They are not much brighter than holding a cellphone flashlight. And the bugs love the light.

Plus most do not like the white light on making the camera noticeable.

And without adding a lot of infrared or visible light, deer out in the distance like on the driveway would probably be difficult to see out in the driveway.

Spend some time looking that the reviews folks have done here on cameras.

Elsewhere like on YouTube and Amazon, most of those reviews you will find always show static images and usually on default settings. Any camera can look good with no motion. It is motion we are interested in, especially motion at night!

And most internet articles will favor higher MP and give daytime examples. How about a 2am example with motion?

That is what makes this site different is that we are all sharing our own real world examples with our own cameras and showing how they perform in the situations we care about - a perp at 2am walking around.

Unlike most YouTube reviews, those of us that post here aren't getting commission or money based on our reviews. So ours tend to be more honest. Of course we have preferences and opinions on cameras, but that is based on our own personal usage and not based on recommending a camera based on getting a commission for every camera we push.

 

[wittaj]

I have said this before, but worth repeating. Do not be sold by some trademarked night color vision (Full Color, ColorVu, Starlight, etc.) that is a marketing ploy in a lot of ways lol. It is simply what a manufacturer wants to claim for low-light performance, but there are so many games that can be played even with the how they report the Lux numbers. They will claim a low lux of 0.0005 for example, but then that is with a wide open iris and a shutter at 1/3 second and an f1.0 - as soon as you have motion in it, it will be crap. You need a shutter of at minimum 1/60 second to reduce a lot of blur from someone walking.

Check out this video at midnight. You see this and it looks like daytime and be like WOW I want that camera.




It was probably something like this that your wife saw LOL.

But any motion in the frame and it is crap and will be a ghost blur. You notice they do not show anything with motion. I can make all my cameras look like this at midnight with no other light, but we want good motion video, not still images video. This is a very nice camera with enough light at night - and as you have seen, with some light, this camera rocks. But all cameras, regardless of what they are called, need light - either white light or infrared. Simple physics.

While this Hikvision camera is not what we would call a consumer grade camera and is a really good camera, it is these games played to make it look good at night - but then a person walking by is a blur and ghost probably like what you are experiencing with your current cameras.

Once you take these cameras off of auto/default settings (unless you like ghost and blur) Just remember that every increase in shutter speed needs more light. So I can set mine to 1/250 second and eliminate blur at night, but then all that is visible is a 5 foot diameter around the camera IF I have enough light.

If your camera doesn't have enough light, a 24/7 full color camera will not be of much good and now you have a camera with no IR and even if you added external IR, the camera will not see it since it does not have an IR filter.

We are fortunate so many people here post videos and images where we can see their field of view and available light and we can try to imagine how that stacks up to our field of view and available light and that to me is a much better spec to go by than what is printed on the side of the box.

I have a Full Color type camera and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and it actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location. But without some light, a camera with IR capability is the safer bet.

 

[RonL]

I have said this before, but worth repeating. Do not be sold by some trademarked night color vision (Full Color, ColorVu, Starlight, etc.) that is a marketing ploy in a lot of ways lol. It is simply what a manufacturer wants to claim for low-light performance, but there are so many games that can be played even with the how they report the Lux numbers. They will claim a low lux of 0.0005 for example, but then that is with a wide open iris and a shutter at 1/3 second and an f1.0 - as soon as you have motion in it, it will be crap. You need a shutter of at minimum 1/60 second to reduce a lot of blur from someone walking.

Check out this video at midnight. You see this and it looks like daytime and be like WOW I want that camera.




It was probably something like this that your wife saw LOL.

But any motion in the frame and it is crap and will be a ghost blur. You notice they do not show anything with motion. I can make all my cameras look like this at midnight with no other light, but we want good motion video, not still images video. This is a very nice camera with enough light at night - and as you have seen, with some light, this camera rocks. But all cameras, regardless of what they are called, need light - either white light or infrared. Simple physics.

While this Hikvision camera is not what we would call a consumer grade camera and is a really good camera, it is these games played to make it look good at night - but then a person walking by is a blur and ghost probably like what you are experiencing with your current cameras.

Once you take these cameras off of auto/default settings (unless you like ghost and blur) Just remember that every increase in shutter speed needs more light. So I can set mine to 1/250 second and eliminate blur at night, but then all that is visible is a 5 foot diameter around the camera IF I have enough light.

If your camera doesn't have enough light, a 24/7 full color camera will not be of much good and now you have a camera with no IR and even if you added external IR, the camera will not see it since it does not have an IR filter.

We are fortunate so many people here post videos and images where we can see their field of view and available light and we can try to imagine how that stacks up to our field of view and available light and that to me is a much better spec to go by than what is printed on the side of the box.

I have a Full Color type camera and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and it actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location. But without some light, a camera with IR capability is the safer bet.

I actually do have some light in that location, I believe my current cameras just have bad night vision. There is a street light in the front left, I have my front step lights on all night, and the neighbors garage lights add some too. I guess the only way to really know is to just break down and buy a system and just one camera to test it. I was just hoping to get rid of the ir spot beam affect I currently have.
The other problem I have is my current analog wiring ... I either have to rewire, or add converters to each end (can get pricey) or use better analog cameras (hilvison has a couple).

 

[Ri22o]

I came from Lorex systems. One 2MP analog and one 2K IP/POE. All cameras were 2.8mm and in horrible locations. I didn't know anything about adjusting them or that I even needed to. Below are some links to my threads since I have joined and gained information. The bulk of my cameras are all now 4MP Dahua/Loryta/Empiretech 5442 series offerings and are way better and give me actual, usable footage.

My "build" thread.

Looking for advice on my install locations.

After posting my thread on where/whether to install the 4K-X I realized I may need to adjust the locations of some of my cameras and with Andy's sale coming up I wanted to get some opinions so I can buy any new hardware I may need. A little about where I live: My street is lit primarily by...

ipcamtalk.com

What I have learned.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality. My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here...

ipcamtalk.com

The importance of having the right focal length and specific purpose for a camera.

Stranger Danger: Side-by-side captures of Ring/Arlo/Nest vs Better Cameras

This post is a combination of the Typical Ring/Arlo/Nest Captures thread and the Captures from Better Cameras thread. It's not too often we have side-by-side images of the crappy, consumer grade cameras with the same subject as better cameras that have been installed with a purpose. It...

ipcamtalk.com