How are various cars being entered and stolen in my neighborhood?

Again ....... it not a “professional” or “elite hacker” job if they are going down the street checking every doors for an unlocked vehicle.

They may have a device to bypass security to start the vehicle but they would probably already need to be inside the vehicle to plug it into the service port first anyway.
 
wtimothyholman said:
This equipment still needs two people to operate it. And it doesn't get around the fact that it only works once. Once you drive away, you can't unlock or restart the vehicle, even if you copy the signal from the key fob.

Also note that the article is 3 years old. So where are the multitude of $22 break-in devices for sale on eBay? I suspect that the actual execution of the technique is a lot trickier than the hackers make it appear. Your typical home is (nowadays) a very RF noisy environment. It would be difficult to pick up that signal standing outside a house, even with a good antenna and a sensitive receiver.

Interestingly, my neighbor has gone silent since yesterday. So it could be that he had an "uh oh" moment and doesn't want everyone to realize that he made it possible for the thieves to steal his Land Rover.
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Hi @wtimothyholman

The note was to your initial: "Here's the thing: according to my neighbor, the vehicle was locked, and he still has both key fobs in his possession. Yet his LR4 was stolen in a matter of seconds. But how? "

I've provided on one "how would it be possible" given that question. I do not use ebay atm, nor many other such market places so I have little idea of the current availability of such tools.

Certainly there probably are other ways, and I do know that key fobs are not fool proof and there are ways to duplicate them.

BTW - you can search for Samy Kamkar from the video @Podagrower posted has given presentations on this tech so feel free to dig more into.

example Defcon 2015 presentation


also note:
"The latest example: two nights ago, a 2012 Land Rover LR4 was stolen while parked on the street in front of a neighbor's home. ..."

Radio Attack Lets Hackers Steal 24 Different Car Models
"..a group of German vehicle security researchers has released new findings about the extent of that wireless key hack,..
The ADAC researchers say that 24 different vehicles from 19 different manufacturers were all vulnerable, allowing them to not only reliably unlock the target vehicles but also immediately drive them away.
.."The radio connection between keys and car can easily be extended over several hundred meters, regardless of whether the original key is, for example, at home or in the pocket of the owner."..Here's the full list of vulnerable vehicles from their findings, which focused on European models: the Audi A3, A4 and A6, BMW's 730d, Citroen's DS4 CrossBack, Ford's Galaxy and Eco-Sport, Honda's HR-V, Hyundai's Santa Fe CRDi, KIA's Optima, Lexus's RX 450h, Mazda's CX-5, MINI's Clubman, Mitsubishi's Outlander, Nissan's Qashqai and Leaf, Opel's Ampera, Range Rover's Evoque, Renault's Traffic, Ssangyong's Tivoli XDi, Subaru's Levorg, Toyota's RAV4, and Volkswagen's Golf GTD and Touran 5T. .."

ref:
www.wired.com

Radio Attack Lets Hackers Steal 24 Different Car Models

German researchers show that the five-year-old vulnerability still exists in hundreds of thousands of vehicles on the road.
www.wired.com www.wired.com


So it is possible.. the question was it probable? or was the info "and he still has both key fobs in his possession." inaccurate and they left a key fob in the car?
 
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JNDATHP said:
This is a popular way of getting into locked vehicles. Once in, search for a key, or whatever. The first time I saw it in action I was flabbergasted.

Click to expand...

Yeah you can buy this on Amazon but it not sold as a lock pick :)

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So we may be one step closer to solving the mystery of how my neighbor's 2012 Land Rover LR4 was stolen. The vehicle was just recovered today, unwrecked and in reasonably good condition, which is rare nowadays. A police officer on patrol spotted the LR4 at a gas station where someone was filling the tank. The cop remembered the description of the vehicle, then pulled in to run the plate and talk to the guy pumping the gas. The guy pumping the gas saw the cop approaching the LR4 and took off on foot. He was captured about a mile away. As you might guess, the perp says he had nothing to do with the theft - a guy named "Jaden" gave him the Land Rover. ;)

My neighbor reported this on Nextdoor, and promised more updates soon. What several people want to know, of course, is "How was he able to drive the car? Did he have a key fob?"
 
wtimothyholman said:
So we may be one step closer to solving the mystery of how my neighbor's 2012 Land Rover LR4 was stolen. The vehicle was just recovered today, unwrecked and in reasonably good condition, which is rare nowadays. A police officer on patrol spotted the LR4 at a gas station where someone was filling the tank. The cop remembered the description of the vehicle, then pulled in to run the plate and talk to the guy pumping the gas. The guy pumping the gas saw the cop approaching the LR4 and took off on foot. He was captured about a mile away. As you might guess, the perp says he had nothing to do with the theft - a guy named "Jaden" gave him the Land Rover. ;)

My neighbor reported this on Nextdoor, and promised more updates soon. What several people want to know, of course, is "How was he able to drive the car? Did he have a key fob?"
Click to expand...

I would assume the cops found the key fob on the bad guy. Especially after being over a week since the theft, and the car still being driven, I would assume they had the key the entire time. Normally if a car is not taken with the fob, the car is driven until it runs out of gas or crashed and left there.
 
coney27 said:
I would assume the cops found the key fob on the bad guy. Especially after being over a week since the theft, and the car still being driven, I would assume they had the key the entire time. Normally if a car is not taken with the fob, the car is driven until it runs out of gas or crashed and left there.
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I don't doubt in the least that the perp had a key fob. But my neighbor swore that he had the keys, and had no clue how it was stolen. I'm just interested in seeing if he admits that there was a fob in the car.
 
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Isn't Jaden Will Smith's kid? He's got enough money to be able to do that :lol:
 
Unless they were somehow able to create new key using the cars diagnostic port. I know that for a while this was possible with BMW so if the perp managed to get inside your car they could hook up and configure a new key but I think BMW have since locked this feature out so as far as I know it’s now not possible.
 
bigredfish said:
This is one of the reasons I use perimeter alarms. Walk into my driveway At 3am and I know you’re there before you reach the vehicle. or a house entry point.

I don’t want to find out 3-4 hours later when I check my email alerts over coffee
Click to expand...

Off topic but do you care to share what you use for sensors? I've eyed the beam style sensors on Amazon a few times but never pulled the trigger. Mainly because I don't have a fence or anything at the corners of my yard to mount them to. I'd have to make some landscaping or something. Plus theyd be useless in the winter when there is a 3 foot snowbank along the edge of the yard.


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I use Guardline. Have had then for years and they just work. Got creative with one in a bush at end of drive, and 3 more for all entry points.
 
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The mystery of the stolen 2012 Land Rover LR4 has been solved. My neighbor contacted me and filled me in. As it turned out, he DID have both his keys in his possession, which included a replacement key fob that he purchased to replace the key fob that he lost a year ago.

And guess where that "lost" key fob was all this time? That's right, somewhere in the LR4. All it took was for him to accidentally leave the door unlocked, and the thieves drove away with the LR4. The thieves then searched the car until they found the fob that they knew was inside it, and after that they were in business.

In fact, I have to wonder if the LR4 was ever really locked all this time. Many wireless fob systems won't allow you to lock the doors if there's a key left inside the vehicle. So it could be that the theft was just a matter of time until a door checker tried pushing the start button.
 
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wtimothyholman said:
The mystery of the stolen 2012 Land Rover LR4 has been solved. My neighbor contacted me and filled me in. As it turned out, he DID have both his keys in his possession, which included a replacement key fob that he purchased to replace the key fob that he lost a year ago.

And guess where that "lost" key fob was all this time? That's right, somewhere in the LR4. All it took was for him to accidentally leave the door unlocked, and the thieves drove away with the LR4. The thieves then searched the car until they found the fob that they knew was inside it, and after that they were in business.

In fact, I have to wonder if the LR4 was ever really locked all this time. Many wireless fob systems won't allow you to lock the doors if there's a key left inside the vehicle. So it could be that the theft was just a matter of time until a door checker tried pushing the start button.
Click to expand...
I hate to say I told you so but.......
 
coney27 said:
I hate to say I told you so but.......
Click to expand...
Hey, I was with you all the way. :) I have never believed that random car thieves were using advanced technology to steal cars, but it is commonly believed and repeated around here. I was just wondering if I was missing something in terms of the technology available.

Hearing from you (a working cop) that this was just dumb luck by the thieves was reassuring. And as it turned out, that's exactly what it was.
 
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wtimothyholman said:
Hey, I was with you all the way. :) I have never believed that random car thieves were using advanced technology to steal cars, but it is commonly believed and repeated around here. I was just wondering if I was missing something in terms of the technology available.

Hearing from you (a workingl cop) that this was just dumb luck by the thieves was reassuring. And as it turned out, that's exactly what it was.
Click to expand...
Did your neighbor say if the bad guy was caught with the fob in his possession?
 
coney27 said:
Did your neighbor say if the bad guy was caught with the fob in his possession?
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My neighbor did not, but I assume that was the case, since the perp claimed the Land Rover was given to him by "Jaden" after they caught him. Either that, or the perp left the fob in the car while he was refueling it.

I was wondering if the perp might have tossed the key fob while on the run, just to deny he was the driver. So either they caught him too quickly, or he wasn't thinking clearly, or the key was left in the car. Regardless, my neighbor now has his vehicle and his key back again, minus whatever minor repair and cleaning he has to pay for.

Knowing how the District Attorney's office works, the driver will probably get a slap on the wrist, since there's no proof he was part of the original group of thieves. The DA won't even prosecute on the basis of fingerprints - patrol cops don't even bother to lift them anymore for car break-ins. They need video or eyewitness verification.
 
TechBill said:
If they are going down the street and checking for door that are unlocked then get in to steal it ... This is not an elite "relay attack" thief since they can use it to unlock the door without having to check the lock first.

I would either think the thief have a way to bypass the security to start the car or your neighbor is saving his face and embarrassment since the door was unlock so obviously he probably did what most folks do. Hide the key fob inside somewhere thinking that nobody the wiser to test start the car if it one of those "push to start" car.
Click to expand...

wtimothyholman said:
The mystery of the stolen 2012 Land Rover LR4 has been solved. My neighbor contacted me and filled me in. As it turned out, he DID have both his keys in his possession, which included a replacement key fob that he purchased to replace the key fob that he lost a year ago.

And guess where that "lost" key fob was all this time? That's right, somewhere in the LR4. All it took was for him to accidentally leave the door unlocked, and the thieves drove away with the LR4. The thieves then searched the car until they found the fob that they knew was inside it, and after that they were in business.

In fact, I have to wonder if the LR4 was ever really locked all this time. Many wireless fob systems won't allow you to lock the doors if there's a key left inside the vehicle. So it could be that the theft was just a matter of time until a door checker tried pushing the start button.
Click to expand...


Yup ... knew it ....


On some car, there are a small button on the door handle where you can lock and unlock the door with the fob still inside by pressing on it.

download-1.jpg

download.jpg
 
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My car will beep like crazy if you try and lock it with the keys still inside, I’ve never try forcing it but found that I couldn’t lock it until the other key was removed.
 
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