How to wire/install when soffits are too high?

[Starglow]

As it relates to Ethernet SPD’s there are countless companies that offer the same. Some reputable companies such as Citel / Ditek.

Keep in mind a solid low resistance Earth ground must be present. Everything must be connected to that single point ground to reduce a voltage differential.

This is also a good time to have a grounding bar installed and located so everything can be easily connected.

I think this is way overkill for the average home with only a few cameras installed since these are not commercial or medical building environments. For most people the risk of lightning strike or surge is very low to warrant such a high cost financial investment.

 

[Teken]

I think this is way overkill for the average home with only a few cameras installed since these are not commercial or medical building environments. For most people the risk of lightning strike or surge is very low to warrant such a high cost financial investment.

True, this hobby can quickly escalate and become a boat anker. Regardless, that's what's great about a hobby people can add on when - needed. This doesn't take away from the basics of having a solid Earth ground nor basic SPD / UPS protection. Dirty power is one of the major culprits in corrupt data / damaged hardware.

Given how very cheap UPS's are today the price to have one on hand and deployed isn't a good excuse. My perspective is to build a solid foundation and keep going if and when finances / needs warrant. Everything I've done has been done in stages that span years of balancing need vs want.

Lastly, it should be noted more than 80% of surge events are created and happen within the home. Lightning is indeed rare but that doesn't mean a person should not plan for the same.

 

[Ri22o]

Oh ok. I've seen posts mention that 8 feet is ideal for identification, but good to know 10-12 feet isn't too high.

7-8 feet is ideal. 10-12 can work, but it depends on the focal length of the camera and the distance you want to ID. If the camera is a higher focal length and the distance is further out, it will help flatten the angle and allow a higher installation height.

I am in a similar situation where my house is 22' soffits on the sides and back and 11' soffits on the front. I ended up moving cameras down and it made a huge difference.

Below is the link to my thread that I usually post whenever someone asks about cam placement, focal length, and height. It shows the difference that can be had by changing mounting height or going with a more appropriate focal length. In some instances I would have thought that going full 12mm on the varifocal would have been life changing, but it wasn't. However, compared to a similarly positioned 2.8mm it was night/day, but until you see what you can see (or not see) with a given focal length it can be hard to visualize what will work for a specific location.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality. My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[bananajam]

7-8 feet is ideal. 10-12 can work, but it depends on the focal length of the camera and the distance you want to ID. If the camera is a higher focal length and the distance is further out, it will help flatten the angle and allow a higher installation height.

I am in a similar situation where my house is 22' soffits on the sides and back and 11' soffits on the front. I ended up moving cameras down and it made a huge difference.

Below is the link to my thread that I usually post whenever someone asks about cam placement, focal length, and height. It shows the difference that can be had by changing mounting height or going with a more appropriate focal length. In some instances I would have thought that going full 12mm on the varifocal would have been life changing, but it wasn't. However, compared to a similarly positioned 2.8mm it was night/day, but until you see what you can see (or not see) with a given focal length it can be hard to visualize what will work for a specific location.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality. My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here...

ipcamtalk.com

Oh yeah, I saw your post - that was great! The pictures really help illustrate the difference.

For the areas where the house soffits were too high, where did you end up attaching your cameras? Into the siding? Or were you able to find alternate spots that worked? I saw your cameras were at varying heights of 7 to 11 feet or so.

 

[wittaj]

Since you plan on hiring someone to run the wires, if you haven't seen this thread - this is the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night. As you will see, the common 2.8mm camera don't cut it for IDENTIFY past 10-15 feet. And a 2.8mm at 12 feet high will only get you tops of heads - good height for a varifocal or PTZ, but not a good height for a 2.8 or 3.6mm fixed lens unless it is an overview camera.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

And have them run a couple to each location. As you put up cameras, there will be some places you wish you had another camera.

 

[Ri22o]

Oh yeah, I saw your post - that was great! The pictures really help illustrate the difference.

For the areas where the house soffits were too high, where did you end up attaching your cameras? Into the siding? Or were you able to find alternate spots that worked? I saw your cameras were at varying heights of 7 to 11 feet or so.

I still have some at 11', there was no getting around it with all of them.

For the driveway, I moved those to under the garage door header.
For the backyard, I had a deck installed with a roof over it. Those got moved from the second story down to the deck roof.

 

[mat200]

I'm starting to do some research into camera installation, placement, etc. and was hoping to get some recommendations/ideas on how to wire and install cameras when the soffits are too high.

The soffits at my house are either a.) 20+ feet high or b.) about 10-12 feet high - the one height is way too high for any sort of identification, and the other is just a shade higher than ideal.

• In the parts of the house where the soffit is 20 feet+ would you recommend threading the cables through the vinyl siding, instead of bringing it down from the soffit, and attaching the cameras to the siding?
• In the parts where the soffit is around 10-12 feet if I want to be able to install the camera at around 8 feet what would be the best way to do that?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Hi @bananajam

If you have an attached garage, that often makes a good point to open up the drywall in the garage and run a few cameras out from there .. do note, you need to play attention to the cladding / house wrap and issues with water ingress ..

For Soffit's 10-12 feet high .. I like the option of running a conduit from there down to a junction box .. while not fully wife approved, it works well when you paint the conduit and junction box to match the house.

Wife approved often requires a lot of work ..

If you have vinyl siding, you can run the cat5e /6 under the siding .. this works really well from what I have been told.

 

[Starglow]

Since you plan on hiring someone to run the wires, if you haven't seen this thread - this is the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night. As you will see, the common 2.8mm camera don't cut it for IDENTIFY past 10-15 feet. And a 2.8mm at 12 feet high will only get you tops of heads - good height for a varifocal or PTZ, but not a good height for a 2.8 or 3.6mm fixed lens unless it is an overview camera.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

And have them run a couple to each location. As you put up cameras, there will be some places you wish you had another camera.

...or two, or three cameras.

 

[bananajam]

Hi @bananajam

If you have an attached garage, that often makes a good point to open up the drywall in the garage and run a few cameras out from there .. do note, you need to play attention to the cladding / house wrap and issues with water ingress ..

For Soffit's 10-12 feet high .. I like the option of running a conduit from there down to a junction box .. while not fully wife approved, it works well when you paint the conduit and junction box to match the house.

Wife approved often requires a lot of work ..

If you have vinyl siding, you can run the cat5e /6 under the siding .. this works really well from what I have been told.

Thanks for the suggestion! I do have an attached garage, and was thinking it could be a good area to get cables through at the corners of it.

A junction box doesn't sound too bad to me visually, but definitely worth checking with the wife on that. Our opinions on what looks good is often different haha.

 

[bananajam]

Since you plan on hiring someone to run the wires, if you haven't seen this thread - this is the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night. As you will see, the common 2.8mm camera don't cut it for IDENTIFY past 10-15 feet. And a 2.8mm at 12 feet high will only get you tops of heads - good height for a varifocal or PTZ, but not a good height for a 2.8 or 3.6mm fixed lens unless it is an overview camera.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

And have them run a couple to each location. As you put up cameras, there will be some places you wish you had another camera.

This is great! I hadn't seen this link yet, I definitely need to dig and re-read because there's a lot of great detail there. The camera recos and actually that sensor size/pixel density chart is the most useful illustration of what I should be looking for. Thank you!

 

[tangent]

The soffits at my house are either a.) 20+ feet high or b.) about 10-12 feet high - the one height is way too high for any sort of identification, and the other is just a shade higher than ideal.

• In the parts of the house where the soffit is 20 feet+ would you recommend threading the cables through the vinyl siding, instead of bringing it down from the soffit, and attaching the cameras to the siding?
• In the parts where the soffit is around 10-12 feet if I want to be able to install the camera at around 8 feet what would be the best way to do that

Cameras on the soffit at 10-12 can still be useful, even a camera 20' up can be useful. The trick is the selection of camera and geometry / optics of what the camera can and can't see.

A camera up high with a wide angle lens can provide an overview of what's happening but won't be able to get much identifiable detail. A camera up there zoomed way in / with a much narrower lens aimed at something farther from the house can get some useful detail (think car license plates or zoomed in on where your walkway meets the street.

If you mount cameras higher, they should be models with more zoom or a larger lens and you should expect that there's an area closer to the house that you aren't trying to capture with most of them. Think of it like a doughnut where the higher you mount the camera the larger the hole middle is.

Generally you get a little more bang for your buck with cameras mounted lower.

I do have a basement and have downspouts at the corners of my house that might work. Are pulling wires from ground up difficult? Would it require going through the foundation?

No, don't go through the foundation. Go through the wall / rim joist above the top of the foundation.
Vinyl siding is fairly easy to run wires behind.

 

[bananajam]

Cameras on the soffit at 10-12 can still be useful, even a camera 20' up can be useful. The trick is the selection of camera and geometry / optics of what the camera can and can't see.

A camera up high with a wide angle lens can provide an overview of what's happening but won't be able to get much identifiable detail. A camera up there zoomed way in / with a much narrower lens aimed at something farther from the house can get some useful detail (think car license plates or zoomed in on where your walkway meets the street.

If you mount cameras higher, they should be models with more zoom or a larger lens and you should expect that there's an area closer to the house that you aren't trying to capture with most of them. Think of it like a doughnut where the higher you mount the camera the larger the hole middle is.

That's good to know. I'll have to think about what makes sense. Definitely getting the impression I'll have to do this in phases to get a better sense of what angles I need to cover.

And thanks for the information on going above the top of the foundation!

 

[Starglow]

Here are photos of my post installed cameras that cover the entire back, front, and sides of my property. I also have a doorbell camera and PTZ camera on the front side of the house, so it's eight cameras covering the outside parameter. The third camera on one post is missing in these photos because I hadn't installed it yet.

 

[dudemaar]

You can easy hide/tuck wire in vinyl siding j trims and soffit j trims. Plan your route. Try use wire similar color to siding and or UV protected if possible. Some recent examples of where I wired 5 cams all hidden wires in siding trim. All wires were brought around to one central spot, where I drilled into basement and used a piece of pvc conduit and box to conceal wires/hole going in.

 

[bananajam]

Here are photos of my post installed cameras that cover the entire back, front, and sides of my property. I also have a doorbell camera and PTZ camera on the front side of the house, so it's eight cameras covering the outside parameter. The third camera on one post is missing in these photos because I hadn't installed it yet.

Oh that's interesting. I was wondering about underground wiring to an external spot and the trench makes so much sense. That's a cool setup with the pole, I like how it kind of blends in with the surrounding trees/brush.

 

[bananajam]

You can easy hide/tuck wire in vinyl siding j trims and soffit j trims. Plan your route. Try use wire similar color to siding and or UV protected if possible. Some recent examples of where I wired 5 cams all hidden wires in siding trim. All wires were brought around to one central spot, where I drilled into basement and used a piece of pvc conduit and box to conceal wires/hole going in.
View attachment 180203View attachment 180204View attachment 180205View attachment 180206View attachment 180207

That's a real clean setup. I'll probably have to do something similar to your first picture where I don't have any overhangs. For the camera that's attached to the wall, did you have to drill into the siding or did you use some sort of a siding hook?

 

[dudemaar]

That's a real clean setup. I'll probably have to do something similar to your first picture where I don't have any overhangs. For the camera that's attached to the wall, did you have to drill into the siding or did you use some sort of a siding hook?

No big holes in siding except for the small screws for mounting. If you look close I managed to tuck the whole connector in behind the j trim.


Sometimes you wont be able to do what I did, so alternative would be to use a pfa130-e junction box to hide the connector. simply remove a plastic side plug from pfa130-e and attach a cable gland.(refer to link below)
Dahua has a new water proof junction box PFA130-E / PFA130E for Turrets ( PFA137, PFA139 ) | Page 7 | IP Cam Talk

 

[bananajam]

No big holes in siding except for the small screws for mounting. If you look close I managed to tuck the whole connector in behind the j trim.
View attachment 180222

Sometimes you wont be able to do what I did, so alternative would be to use a pfa130-e junction box to hide the connector. simply remove a plastic side plug from pfa130-e and attach a cable gland.(refer to link below)
Dahua has a new water proof junction box PFA130-E / PFA130E for Turrets ( PFA137, PFA139 ) | Page 7 | IP Cam Talk

Oh nice, that's cool. And thanks for the info on the possible e-junction box - good to know!

 

[looney2ns]

Always temporally mount cams prior to final install to test the location, for minimum of 24hrs. It's always best to purchase one camera such as this ONE to use for testing the location prior to install.

 

[mat200]

Oh nice, that's cool. And thanks for the info on the possible e-junction box - good to know!

FYI - PFA-121 / PFA-122 share the same size base junction box .. lids are different .. I'd look into those a possible setups as then you can more easily swap out lids as needed

Dahua Quick Swap Your Cameras Using PFA-121 & PFA-122 Junction Box & Associated Face Plates - Tip

All I’ve mentioned the great use case of the Dahua PFA Junction boxes and their interchangeable face plates many times but as I’m always asked for more details, I thought I would put together a quick video for anyone that is interested. In short, by using the methods I show in the video, if...

ipcamtalk.com