Human / Face detection

wittaj

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Of course he isn't...

Nope - there is no such NVR - AI is very processor heavy and most NVRs you look at will have a significant reduction in it's capabilities if the NVR onboard AI is used. So you would be spending in excess of $1,000 for an NVR with some AI capability and still be limited. Probably cheaper to buy new cameras and try to sell those.

You would have to go with something like Blue Iris/computer combo with a powerful GPU to meet those needs.
 

35s77

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OK I had a spare / new computer sitting idle. I bought BlueIris and put it on it with the intention of using it with the new cams. Are you saying I could potentially use the old cams and let BlueIris do the AI? How powerful would it need to be? Its an i7 with 64gb of RAM and a decent grphics card.
 

wittaj

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i7 means nothing - is it a 4th gen or 8th gen or what gen?

Define decent graphics card - NVIDIA and how much RAM?
 

35s77

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Yes current NVR has to go. I am trying to decide if I can use computer with Blue Iris to do the AI, or if I need to buy all new cameras.
 

actran

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OK I had a spare / new computer sitting idle. I bought BlueIris and put it on it with the intention of using it with the new cams. Are you saying I could potentially use the old cams and let BlueIris do the AI? How powerful would it need to be? Its an i7 with 64gb of RAM and a decent grphics card.
@35s77 Yes, you can use old cams with BlueIris. Install CodeProject.AI (free) to do AI human/vehicle detection on BlueIris. With BlueIris, you can also detect other objects like animals, delivery trucks with the right model. Also, license plate detection is available.

But as @wittaj has asked, we need more details on your PC and Nvidia card to know if they will work well.
 

35s77

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i7 means nothing - is it a 4th gen or 8th gen or what gen?

Define decent graphics card - NVIDIA and how much RAM?
sorry, 12th Gen i7 . NVIDIA geForce GTX 1660 SUPER 1gb RAM.
 

actran

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@35s77 CPU is more than good, but if your Nvidia only has 1GB RAM (odd), then that is not enough. I recommend at least 4GB for GPU.

BTW, Nvidia GPU is not necessary, you can do CodeProject.AI detection with 12th gen i7.

Also, let us know what the size of HD the installer put in your NVR. If large enough, it may be worth reusing it with BlueIris.
 
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wittaj

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12th gen is good. 1GB won't cut it. People with 3 and 4GB have struggles.

But if you don't go crazy with AI (like do you need it for EVERY camera) you might get by with the CPU version.
 

35s77

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12th gen is good. 1GB won't cut it. People with 3 and 4GB have struggles.

But if you don't go crazy with AI (like do you need it for EVERY camera) you might get by with the CPU version.
i was looking at wrong graphics card, the stock card has 1gb. The GeForce has 6gb of RAM. Even if I needed to buy a better graphics card sounds like I would be way cheaper going this route than replacing the cameras.

I dont mind spending the money to replace the cameras if it would be a huge step up in quality, but it dosent sound like it would be.
 

35s77

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@35s77 CPU is more than good, but if your Nvidia only has 1GB RAM (odd), then that is not enough. I recommend 4GB for GPU.

BTW, Nvidia GPU is not necessary, you can do CodeProject.AI detection with 12th gen i7.

Also, let us know what the size of HD the installer put in your NVR. If large enough, it may be worth reusing it with BlueIris.
your right i was looking at the stock card, the geforce has 6gb
 

35s77

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@35s77 CPU is more than good, but if your Nvidia only has 1GB RAM (odd), then that is not enough. I recommend at least 4GB for GPU.

BTW, Nvidia GPU is not necessary, you can do CodeProject.AI detection with 12th gen i7.

Also, let us know what the size of HD the installer put in your NVR. If large enough, it may be worth reusing it with BlueIris.
The NVR has two 2tb drives. I have two empty bays in my NAS though so I will probably just get a big drive and use that, and x the NVR all together.
 

actran

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@35s77 2TB are small drives, especially for 8MP cams.

Since you've bought BlueIris, give yourself plenty of time to fine-tune.
Initial setup shouldn't be too difficult but refining your setup will take time because there are so many options in BlueIris.
 

wittaj

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Oh it would be a huge step up in quality in the cameras.

Forget about the nice static image it probably produces, once you dial in the shutter/exposure speed (min 1/60s shutter to minimize blur) you will see the limitations.

They sold you cheap consumer grade 8MP cameras on the same sensor as a good 2MP. The 2MP will kick its butt all night long.

Any 4K camera on smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor will be horrible for night vision.

Almost any camera can do well in the daytime with enough light, even cameras that are 8MP put on a sensor designed for 2MP. But keep in mind that usually the processor and other stuff are still designed around 2MP, so the camera struggles trying to keep up with 8MP worth of data.

So buying an 8MP camera on the same sensor as the 2MP processor means that the processor is potentially working 4 times as hard for the 8MP camera. The camera you have was designed for 2MP, so when they pop an 8MP lens on it, the processor is still the same and has to work harder. In some situations that is problematic. Thus one of the reasons why it didn't have AI in it.

Here is a real world example with a deer. Even with a floodlight, there simply wasn't enough light to make the 4MP on the sensor designed for 2MP to go into color. Imagine how much darker trying to squeeze 8MP on it will be and without a floodlight, forget about it.


1673449859378.png



And a 4MP on the proper 1/1.8" sensor camera (different deer LOL but same field of view when the camera was replaced to a better camera) that the camera was able to go to color based on the larger sensor:


1673449943897.png




Which do you think is the better image? The same thing applies whether it is a 4MP versus 8MP on the sensor sized for 2MP.

But an 8MP will be even worse because it will need even more light than the 4MP on the same size sensor.


Then you have to take into account how far you want to IDENTIFY people - the cams you have will be limited to about 10-15 feet at night.
 

bigredfish

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Looks like the biggest problem are the cameras, BI wont solve that other than to add more AI capability right? So new cameras may be needed?

The NVR is obviously rebranded Dahua and not low end. It does have AI but not the Human/Vehicle filter.

Still using IVS and NO MD/SMD I would think it would do well if dialed in. YMMV
 

wittaj

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Looks like the biggest problem are the cameras, BI wont solve that other than to add more AI capability right? So new cameras may be needed?

The NVR is obviously rebranded Dahua and not low end. It does have AI but not the Human/Vehicle filter.

Still using IVS and NO MD/SMD I would think it would do well if dialed in. YMMV
That is correct. BI would add the AI capability, but it could be problematic at night once the shutter speed is sped up to eliminate blur - as you know the image will get darker and how far out the camera can see will be diminished as a result of that.

Yeah I was thinking rebranded Dahua as well. Surprised it didn't have a little more AI, but again even if it did, it would probably only be good for one or two cameras tops.

I agree - many of us old schoolers got pretty good at setting up motion prior to AI to eliminate false triggers.
 

bigredfish

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Agree on all. However if you're gonna upgrade cameras anyway to say 5442's... no need for the human/vehicle filter on the NVR

I do think it has some basic human/vehicle AI built in like the last gen of NVRs/cams. It just doesnt have the toggle to choose one or the other. Obvious;y with Face Detection etc...
 
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