With BI you wont need to mount a tablet on the wall to watch the cams (that works) but if you have a smart tv with a web browser you just enter the local web address for your own local blue iris machine(it runs a web browser app automatically on install for remote viewing) and watch the cams on existing tv. This is WAY better than seeing 3 cams on a small tablet which is like 3 inches per cam you might see. With a large TV you might have each cam be two feet of screen space, that is usable when viewing across the room, with tablet it will have to be right in your face to be usable.
I feel like I need to know rocket science to make a decision
- Thread starter cheshire_cat
- Start date
Same with me, started about 1.5 years ago and worked my way up. Take your time, get the ground work laid right the first time, then you can add on as you desire with less pain. I went with a NVR because I have 5 windows PC's already I have to maintain, so didn't want anymore of that. I did go with all Dahua branded cameras and NVR, and it has been spot on since. It really isn't that hard, just take your time, read, read some more and ask questions. Make a long term plan, that is what I did. I think I ran one network drop a month/every two weeks, and added about one to two cameras along with at the same time. I have 10 hard wired camera's and one wireless (inside ptz) and they have been flawless. Although my cameras are Dahua, they certainly are not 5442's, and I will be replacing a few of them soon. But the beauty of all this is, if I want to upgrade them, then I just have to mount the new camera, plug it in, configure and done. But again, sit down, come up with a plan, and take your time. And HAVE FUN.
Do not underestimate this statement: Camera's multiple like rabbits.
Do not underestimate this statement: Camera's multiple like rabbits.
Thanks! I already ordered that Amcrest bundle I linked above. I think it's going to be a great learning experience and, worst case scenario, I'll replace some of them down the road with whatever best fits my requirements. Once I feel more knowledgeable about all the various types of cameras, it will be easier for me to make decisions. Right now I needed to order at least something because my wife is being a bit paranoid
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 15,373
- 25,924
Nice @cheshire_cat
Also remember if you need to you can get a better camera to add to the kit .. let us know how it turns out.
Absolutely. I just hope it won't take me too much time to figure out the networking part of my setup. Blocking outbound traffic for my Amcrest cameras etc..
The NVR blocks the cameras via putting them on a separate IP address. The NVR is the one to be concerned with.
The advice you have gotten already is spot on.....
I do want to add a comment however. That image of the tablet from your OP has HORRIBLE camera placements. I know this is not your system and you just want something that looks like it, but don't do what they did!
First, both cameras are mounted too high to be of any good. They will only capture the tops of people's heads as they walk by and certainly any facial features will be blocked by someone wearing a hat or hoodie. You really need to mount the cameras no higher than head height to be most effective. This ensures you can get good facial detail even if the person is wearing a hat or hoodie.
Second, the driveway camera orientation is as bad as I have ever seen. Right now the driveway is less than 25% of the actual coverage provided by that camera with the other 75% being the two buildings and the sky. Those elements are not important and shouldn't be in the frame at all and here they are taking up 75% of the cameras coverage! By changing it's origination, they could probably improve the driveway to 80% coverage. Perhaps they think that they can see the street this way, but it is so far away that they will never be able to identify someone in the street, so there is little point in having it in the feed. It would be much better to show the rest of the driveway which is closer to the camera where you might actually be able to get a detailed image. That being said, that camera is still mounted WAY too high and would only capture the top of someone's head in the driveway instead of a good capture of their face.
Most people mount their cameras high thinking that they have to get them out of people's reach to avoid vandalism. The reality is that 99% of the people will never even notice the camera (even when mounted low) and won't mess with hit. At least if it is low and they vandalize it, you will get some good images of the person as they do it. But seriously, the risk to the camera being mounted low is very small and the footage it captures will be much more usable than footage from cameras mounted high.
I do want to add a comment however. That image of the tablet from your OP has HORRIBLE camera placements. I know this is not your system and you just want something that looks like it, but don't do what they did!
First, both cameras are mounted too high to be of any good. They will only capture the tops of people's heads as they walk by and certainly any facial features will be blocked by someone wearing a hat or hoodie. You really need to mount the cameras no higher than head height to be most effective. This ensures you can get good facial detail even if the person is wearing a hat or hoodie.
Second, the driveway camera orientation is as bad as I have ever seen. Right now the driveway is less than 25% of the actual coverage provided by that camera with the other 75% being the two buildings and the sky. Those elements are not important and shouldn't be in the frame at all and here they are taking up 75% of the cameras coverage! By changing it's origination, they could probably improve the driveway to 80% coverage. Perhaps they think that they can see the street this way, but it is so far away that they will never be able to identify someone in the street, so there is little point in having it in the feed. It would be much better to show the rest of the driveway which is closer to the camera where you might actually be able to get a detailed image. That being said, that camera is still mounted WAY too high and would only capture the top of someone's head in the driveway instead of a good capture of their face.
Most people mount their cameras high thinking that they have to get them out of people's reach to avoid vandalism. The reality is that 99% of the people will never even notice the camera (even when mounted low) and won't mess with hit. At least if it is low and they vandalize it, you will get some good images of the person as they do it. But seriously, the risk to the camera being mounted low is very small and the footage it captures will be much more usable than footage from cameras mounted high.
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Honestly, I didn't even look at his camera angles on the setup. I was just thinking about installing a tablet on the wall to view cameras and control other stuff I'd like to add in the future. I'll probably use one of the TVs for that for now since I'll only have the cameras but once I start adding more bells and whistles, having a separate device for that would be nice.
I appreciate the comment though! I'll definitely try to keep mines low
Hey man...I was like you and started going down the rabbit hole. The guys in here are super into it, so of course geek out on this stuff. So although it's excellent top shelf advice, you get a tiny slice of feedback. For example they all recommend Blue iris. Yeah....not for me, might not be right for others...I do not want to fiddle f with software that other reviewers elsewhere have said is a PITA to set up. I do not have time for that. (It's the same as the home automation rabbit hole where the true geeks all know what they're doing but it's a huge amount of time to get it right and they all assume you know how to code..."it's easy!" they'll say.
Sure it's great advice on how to do it right. Maybe setting up software configuration is your thing for your needs, but I learned to take a step back tho and not stress...ask what you want, but don't dismiss the value of ease of setup.
I will also give you this tidbit: I live in an area with 2-4 million dollar homes (Marin, CA) and while I was touring them nearly all of them are sporting nest systems, allto, ring systems or other IVRs that are considered garbage in her. Again I'm not at all dismissing anything just it's interesting. My guess is most value quick and easy "good enought" deterrence at the expense of top quality. Ipcamtalk values doing it well so has the best setups and advice across the board.
i eventually will get a POE Andy cam myself but likely run it with a camect AI system. Kind of a middle ground system me thinks. (Not Likely ipcamtalk approved lol)
anyway just a different perspective.
Sure it's great advice on how to do it right. Maybe setting up software configuration is your thing for your needs, but I learned to take a step back tho and not stress...ask what you want, but don't dismiss the value of ease of setup.
I will also give you this tidbit: I live in an area with 2-4 million dollar homes (Marin, CA) and while I was touring them nearly all of them are sporting nest systems, allto, ring systems or other IVRs that are considered garbage in her. Again I'm not at all dismissing anything just it's interesting. My guess is most value quick and easy "good enought" deterrence at the expense of top quality. Ipcamtalk values doing it well so has the best setups and advice across the board.
i eventually will get a POE Andy cam myself but likely run it with a camect AI system. Kind of a middle ground system me thinks. (Not Likely ipcamtalk approved lol)
anyway just a different perspective.
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After having at least 5 NVRs over the years and still managing my folks NVR, I have found Blue Iris to be way more user friendly and easier to setup and scrub video than an NVR. I assure you the help file in BI is more detailed than any manual you will get for an NVR!
And the video quality examples shown here of Andy's $200ish cameras versus an Arlo $200ish cam or a Ring $200ish cam are no comparison. We are not exactly proposing Top Shelf Axis that costs 5-6 times other cameras - we are recommending cameras comparable in price to consumer favorites Ring and Arlo.
Not one of my neighbors with a consumer grade system (Arlo, Reolink, Nest, Ring) has been able to provide anything to the police to help them out other than what time something happened. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocals have got the captures every time for neighbors to get their stuff back and perps put behind bars. Heck most of the time my neighbors with their wifi cams get nothing because the motion drives up the bandwidth demands and their router poops out and can't keep up.
You are correct, most prefer that quick and simple scan a QR code and be done. But that simplicity comes at a cost and that cost is useless video at night.
But to each there own.
And the video quality examples shown here of Andy's $200ish cameras versus an Arlo $200ish cam or a Ring $200ish cam are no comparison. We are not exactly proposing Top Shelf Axis that costs 5-6 times other cameras - we are recommending cameras comparable in price to consumer favorites Ring and Arlo.
Not one of my neighbors with a consumer grade system (Arlo, Reolink, Nest, Ring) has been able to provide anything to the police to help them out other than what time something happened. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocals have got the captures every time for neighbors to get their stuff back and perps put behind bars. Heck most of the time my neighbors with their wifi cams get nothing because the motion drives up the bandwidth demands and their router poops out and can't keep up.
You are correct, most prefer that quick and simple scan a QR code and be done. But that simplicity comes at a cost and that cost is useless video at night.
But to each there own.
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sebastiantombs
Known around here
First of all cameras are no longer a deterrence. Look at the videos posted here, and elsewhere. Most "perps" don't give a rats butt about video cameras.
Again Ring, Nest, Arlo, Wye, et al, will give you nice pretty pictures, but when the rubber hits the road and you want/need to know who did what you won't know who and, if you're lucky, you might be able to see what as long as it's not night time. Think about it, when does most of the bad stuff happen? Maybe at night? A lot of those cameras are triggered by motion using PIR technology. Two things happen, loads of false triggers and loads of missed triggers. Even when triggered by a real event the camera needs time to boot and produce an image. That time is critical when a real event happens.
To be truly effective every camera needs to be selected based on the purpose it is intended for and where it will be located. Then it needs to be properly adjusted, not only for the specific view, but in terms of shutter/exposure and the whole list of adjustments that you would do with a decent DSLR camera. Plug and play is actually plug and pray when it comes to video surveillance. Plug it in and pray it gives you something useable. Unfortunately those prayers are always unanswered.
In terms of BI, yes there is a learning curve. It comes down to how interested and serious you are regarding security. I come from a security background, as well as a computer/network background, so I do have some advantages. If you can follow directions and do a little research in the help file it can be mastered well enough to produce a superior system. Worst case you can ask here or ask Blue Iris support.
You can also do the NVR route, but using quality cameras instead of consumer junk. It's closer to plug and play but still needs to be set up properly to be truly effective.
Bottom line is you get out of a surveillance system what you are willing to put in. If you're happy with wide, sweeping views, go with junk (Reolink, SV3C, Ring, Arlo, Nest, Wyze, HelloKitty or no-name off shore garbage). If you want a surveillance system that can produce some tangible results be prepared to invest some time as well as money.
Again Ring, Nest, Arlo, Wye, et al, will give you nice pretty pictures, but when the rubber hits the road and you want/need to know who did what you won't know who and, if you're lucky, you might be able to see what as long as it's not night time. Think about it, when does most of the bad stuff happen? Maybe at night? A lot of those cameras are triggered by motion using PIR technology. Two things happen, loads of false triggers and loads of missed triggers. Even when triggered by a real event the camera needs time to boot and produce an image. That time is critical when a real event happens.
To be truly effective every camera needs to be selected based on the purpose it is intended for and where it will be located. Then it needs to be properly adjusted, not only for the specific view, but in terms of shutter/exposure and the whole list of adjustments that you would do with a decent DSLR camera. Plug and play is actually plug and pray when it comes to video surveillance. Plug it in and pray it gives you something useable. Unfortunately those prayers are always unanswered.
In terms of BI, yes there is a learning curve. It comes down to how interested and serious you are regarding security. I come from a security background, as well as a computer/network background, so I do have some advantages. If you can follow directions and do a little research in the help file it can be mastered well enough to produce a superior system. Worst case you can ask here or ask Blue Iris support.
You can also do the NVR route, but using quality cameras instead of consumer junk. It's closer to plug and play but still needs to be set up properly to be truly effective.
Bottom line is you get out of a surveillance system what you are willing to put in. If you're happy with wide, sweeping views, go with junk (Reolink, SV3C, Ring, Arlo, Nest, Wyze, HelloKitty or no-name off shore garbage). If you want a surveillance system that can produce some tangible results be prepared to invest some time as well as money.
Haven't read the entire thread. I too, started with "only needing" 4 cameras. 3 yrs later I'm at nearly 30 cams - or maybe more, I've lost count.
Cameras may not be a deterrence but I sure as hell think that when people see all my cams and my big PTZ's too out front that they do think about something and will maybe decide to just move along to all the other houses around me that don't have upgraded exterior lighting and so many visible cameras.
In other words, plan for more cameras down the road since your only in construction phase. Cheers.
Cameras may not be a deterrence but I sure as hell think that when people see all my cams and my big PTZ's too out front that they do think about something and will maybe decide to just move along to all the other houses around me that don't have upgraded exterior lighting and so many visible cameras.
In other words, plan for more cameras down the road since your only in construction phase. Cheers.
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 15,373
- 25,924
Hi @mattyp
1) People who live in 2-4 Million dollar homes have less worries about delinquency and threats on a regular basis compare to those who live in more affordable areas.
After all, it is the criminal lords who live in those expensive neighborhoods and set up their crack house in poorer neighborhoods, and typically the police response / private security response is setup in a way to better protect those with more money.
2) Just because someone lives in a 2-4 Million dollar home, does not mean they know much about this topic .. having money does not mean you know or are willing to take the time to learn a new topic ( as you yourself point out ).
3) If you really want to, seeing that you live in a 2-4 Million dollar home neighborhood - you can probably afford to pay a good installer and security camera / security alarm outfit to install and monitor your security for you .. it will easily be less than a fraction of a bitcoin - so should be no trouble. If needed a home improvement loan for a small fraction of what your home is worth should get you covered well ..
4) Deterrence value of cameras are highly over rated .. as are any cloud camera setup .. way overrated .. once you learn and know more you will agree .. of course if you never have to actually use the security camera footage you may never learn the concepts which members here have learned due to their experiences.
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I don't have a background in computer science, or network engineering, or programming, or surveillance consulting/installing, or any of those (inter)related skills/occupations, but with some reading and help from IPCT, I had my cameras "added" to Blue Iris and recording quality footage in a couple hours. I like "easy," but I also like quality, reliability and robustness.
The day after my neighbor called me and asked me to check my video because some douche from around the block dumped a La-Z-Boy in front of his house, they went out and bought some of those stick-em-up and play-with-em wifi cams from a big-box store. He's fiddle f'ing with them all the time, and every time I ask them if they saw this or that overnight, they say "no, our cameras didn't pick that up." His wife says "how come our cameras never catch that stuff??"
I sort of pity them a little bit, it's kind of sad, I understand that many people can't invest/dedicate an adequate block of their time to do this, especially if they don't have the wherewithal or ability, but the reality of that prospect is a tough pill to swallow. So I have to bite my tongue, cuz you don't wanna hurt people's feelings by pointing out their inferior stuff or saying "you shoulda this or that."
All that said, the time I've invested and what I've learned here in the last couple years, I cannot put a price tag on it. People (including the private investigator I hired recently) are impressed at the quality of my surveillance footage.
The day after my neighbor called me and asked me to check my video because some douche from around the block dumped a La-Z-Boy in front of his house, they went out and bought some of those stick-em-up and play-with-em wifi cams from a big-box store. He's fiddle f'ing with them all the time, and every time I ask them if they saw this or that overnight, they say "no, our cameras didn't pick that up." His wife says "how come our cameras never catch that stuff??"
I sort of pity them a little bit, it's kind of sad, I understand that many people can't invest/dedicate an adequate block of their time to do this, especially if they don't have the wherewithal or ability, but the reality of that prospect is a tough pill to swallow. So I have to bite my tongue, cuz you don't wanna hurt people's feelings by pointing out their inferior stuff or saying "you shoulda this or that."
All that said, the time I've invested and what I've learned here in the last couple years, I cannot put a price tag on it. People (including the private investigator I hired recently) are impressed at the quality of my surveillance footage.
+1 same here LOL.
It is almost a game I play LOL whenever something happens. I text John and I'm like "Here is a pic I caught of the perp door checking last night - did your cameras catch anything" and I either get "$#!+ the battery was dead" or "my camera didn't pick up anything"
These consumer grade companies have convinced the average consumer that poor nighttime videos are acceptable. Consumers are conditioned to believe that you cannot get good quality night images from surveillance cameras.
Look at all the countless Nextdoor and FB posts where people are posting crap video and pics and not one person ever says "hey there are cameras that can give you better images". It is just accepted that this is the best that can be done.
The police are shocked when something happens and I can actually provide them video and pictures that are useful. Even they are conditioned to believe that good night video isn't possible. There exact words are "What Ring camera captured this?" And I am like it ain't no Ring LOL.
It is almost a game I play LOL whenever something happens. I text John and I'm like "Here is a pic I caught of the perp door checking last night - did your cameras catch anything" and I either get "$#!+ the battery was dead" or "my camera didn't pick up anything"
These consumer grade companies have convinced the average consumer that poor nighttime videos are acceptable. Consumers are conditioned to believe that you cannot get good quality night images from surveillance cameras.
Look at all the countless Nextdoor and FB posts where people are posting crap video and pics and not one person ever says "hey there are cameras that can give you better images". It is just accepted that this is the best that can be done.
The police are shocked when something happens and I can actually provide them video and pictures that are useful. Even they are conditioned to believe that good night video isn't possible. There exact words are "What Ring camera captured this?" And I am like it ain't no Ring LOL.
I think the example that @samplenhold provided a while back in this thread shows the difference in quality and that should negate the argument that you don't need as someone said "Top Shelf" advice and cameras.
So they had a door checker one night in 2020.
@samplenhold is using IPC-HDW5231R-ZE which sold in the $150ish range, which has since been replaced with the 5442-ZE that sells for $190ish and here was his capture in a position similar to what his neighbor captured with a Ring:
Meanwhile his neighbor has the Ring system and his Ring Camera depending on the model ranges from $200 to $250. Here was his image when the perp rang across the street to his house:
Which camera do you think provides a better image - the "Top Shelf advice" cameras we recommend at $150-190ish or the consumer grade Ring at $200-250ish?
Unless common core math has changed basic arithmetic, the Top Shelf advice camera is cheaper than the consumer grade camera and provides much better results....plus no annual fee that is needed with many of these consumer systems!
If I can get better quality and cheaper cost, that decision is a no-brainer...
I can assure you the Arlo, Reolinks, Nest, etc. will be no better than Ring and probably a lot worse.
So they had a door checker one night in 2020.
@samplenhold is using IPC-HDW5231R-ZE which sold in the $150ish range, which has since been replaced with the 5442-ZE that sells for $190ish and here was his capture in a position similar to what his neighbor captured with a Ring:
Meanwhile his neighbor has the Ring system and his Ring Camera depending on the model ranges from $200 to $250. Here was his image when the perp rang across the street to his house:
Which camera do you think provides a better image - the "Top Shelf advice" cameras we recommend at $150-190ish or the consumer grade Ring at $200-250ish?
Unless common core math has changed basic arithmetic, the Top Shelf advice camera is cheaper than the consumer grade camera and provides much better results....plus no annual fee that is needed with many of these consumer systems!
If I can get better quality and cheaper cost, that decision is a no-brainer...
I can assure you the Arlo, Reolinks, Nest, etc. will be no better than Ring and probably a lot worse.
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Speaking of Ring LOL, here is the best image my neighbor was able to get out of his $250 Ring Camera of a door checker going thru his backyard. Yeah I don't see him either LOL. Video was horrible. Shutter had to be about 1/3s:
But he does like the Ring app LOL
But he does like the Ring app LOL
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This is a perfect example indeed. This is exatly what I mean top shelf ADVICE in here. You are going to get the best gear at the best price and the know how to make it all work. My comment was simply if you do not want to go down the path of feeling like you need to know rocket science and stress out, look at your needs. This is a perfect example of the out of box crap versus doing the research and putting in extra time.
I got burned by Arlo door bell cameras, and dare i say b-b-b-attery operated! haha, what a waste of money, and that why i am in here!
LOL - how many times did the Arlo batteries die before you just gave up on them LOL.
My Arlo neighbors just simply pulled them off and haven't put them back up - either gave up and frustrated or they are still sitting on chargers waiting for them to make the time to hang them back up.
Oh wait - we still have one with Arlos up - had some doorbell ditchers last night - his system didn't even catch them LOL. He is full in Arlo world with their doorbell, camera, and spotlight camera - didn't register a thing. Wow that is a lot of money wasted!
mat200
IPCT Contributor
- Jan 17, 2017
- 15,373
- 25,924
Hi @mattyp
The community here has narrowed down the information with out the FUD that vendors / sales people / marketing can bring.
If you're willing to take the time you will get a better system.. just remember no system will be perfect, everything is a compromise in one way or the other - ideally we don't want to compromise on the most critical parts.